* AvCanada's Home Page * Photo Gallery * Directory * Topsites *Weather *Enter Chat * Media Kit
It is currently Sat May 25, 2013 4:14 pm



All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is chatting

Who is chatting
Enter Chat




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2011 10:02 pm 
Offline
Rank 3
Rank 3

Joined: Tue Jun 09, 2009 5:17 am
Posts: 147
Interesting story out by Avweb yesterday - Cessna will be updating the service manuals for their 100 and 200 series aircraft which were manufactured between 1946 and 1986. I think the 1986 cutoff date is because a/c manufactured after that had primer on the interior aluminum surfaces. The story from Avweb can be viewed at: http://www.avweb.com/avwebflash/news/CessnaAddsInspectionsForAgingAircraft_205830-1.html.

There are links to Cessna's power point presentation and a Youtube video. The video summarizes what's covered in the PPT. Seems like they are mostly talking about high-time aircraft in the 8000+ hour range on the airframe. But they also make the point that corrosion is more related to calendar time than aircraft flight cycles and machines in coastal areas fare the worst - no surprise there!

Prime areas discussed are:
- elevator trim tab
- vertical stab attach points
- Horizontal elevator spar attach points
- Door post / spar attach points
- main spar carrythrough, especially on C177/C210
- Engine mounts
- Landing gear

Inspection is non-destructive according to the Cessna documentation, although I guess if serious problems are found, they could be destructive to the bank account!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 5:56 am 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:25 pm
Posts: 5616
Location: The Misty Mountains...
Well, we are going through some of those additional inspections right now on our 337. For the most part, I've found that they are simply duplicating inspections that you should be doing in the first place, but highlighting problem areas and doing a little CYA for what they specifically want you to inspect. I think they also want to increase the maintenance requirements on these aircraft to hasten their retirement.

We thought it was a lot of BS at first. The only other time I've seen CPCP programs was on turbine aircraft with things like lavs and thousands more hours and cycles in corrosive environments. Our planes get spoiled being in a dry-belt and hangared all the time. The only time I fly in rain is when I want to give the bird a good wash.

I expected to find corrosion on the elevator and horizontal stab, as it is in the exhaust efflux from the rear engine. Minor surface stuff only.

What I didn't expect to find was the massive amounts of corrosion on the leading edge wing root rib on this two-bit inspection item that should have taken me 30 minutes to complete....

Image

I got lucky and found a rib used where the holes line up and Cessna never got back to me on a new one (I at least wanted to have a chuckle on the price, I was betting at least a grand and maybe two) Good luck making one from scratch, 0.050 2024 T6 with compound bends and joggles---you'd need a bloody drop forge!. Everything goes through it (fresh air vents, R/H fuel selector tele flex, aileron balance cable, all of the wiring, and a fuel cross feed line), plus it picks up the fwd wing fitting and the fasteners go through the main spar and required the removal of the R/H aux fuel tank. I've found out that the 3/6" x 7/8" Hi Locs that go through the spar are a rare commodity with a 30 day lead time and had to buy two bags of rivets for want of four dash 6 (3/16") rivets I did not have in my stock.

Just a little taste of how even a basic re and re of a structural member can turn into a clusterfuck. Gear fittings on 172s are way easier. I hope to have it wrapped up by Christmas...

If you get a plane with a bit of surface corrosion inside (white powdery residue), just leave it alone. It looked like that ten years ago and it will look the same ten years from now on a light aircraft. That is the ALCLAD doing its job. As soon as you attack it with scotch brite (the brown aluminum-oxide pad, don't ever let me catch you using a green pad on a plane!) you will be fighting even worse corrosion the next time. Then the scrub, etch-alondine, prime, and CPC cycle that ends when the part disintegrates or you run out of money or sanity.


Also, for those extra inspections, make sure you pay attention to the hours and calendar requirements. On ours for the removal of both the wings and the tail booms, it said 12,000 hour or 20 years (they are all over 20 years), but, it said that for aircraft under 12,000 hours, you could do a basic visual and if there were no defects, skip the detailed inspection. Saved a ton of work not having to pull those off....


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:20 pm 
Offline
Rank 8
Rank 8
User avatar

Joined: Sat May 27, 2006 8:00 pm
Posts: 947
on the topic of corrosion, do you guys find ACF-50 actually neutralizes corrosion, or even slows it down? They claim it "actively penetrates through the corrosion deposits to the base of the cell where it emulsifies and encapsulates the electrolyte" but I have never heard if this stuff actually works. I have seen it everywhere over the years but I am curious to know if any of you guys religiously use the stuff and have seen results.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Dec 06, 2011 1:45 pm 
Online
Rank 11
Rank 11
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 4003
Location: Over Macho Grande
Quote:
If you get a plane with a bit of surface corrosion inside (white powdery residue), just leave it alone


When I see what looks like baking soda on the metal (surface corrosion) I hose it down with corrosion-X or ACF-50, both of which do pretty much the same thing. Makes a terrible mess - it runs out at the low points. Not a good thing to do before a paint job! I might be wrong, but airframes that have been misted with corrosion-X/ACF-50 years ago, might have less corrosion than untreated airframes, especially if they are exposed to any significant humidity/salinity. It's not something I do every year. A hangared aircraft in a dry, salt-free environment, I would mist it every few years. Parked outside, I would do it every year.

AME's around here have been hosing down the carry-throughs on 177/210 around here with Corrosion-X for years.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 1:10 am 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 1125
Location: Rock 101
iflyforpie wrote:
(the brown aluminum-oxide pad, don't ever let me catch you using a green pad on a plane!)


You sound so militant Pie' and where did you ever get that idea anyhow~!? :wink:

'48


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 2:38 am 
Online
Rank 11
Rank 11

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:17 am
Posts: 3072
Location: West Coast
iflyforpie wrote:


Image


.


Nasty :shock: It kind of makes you wonder what the inside of the wings look like in all the other Huff and Puffs out there, as I doubt very many get the level of care you are giving during inspections........


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:09 pm 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:25 pm
Posts: 5616
Location: The Misty Mountains...
Big Pistons Forever wrote:
iflyforpie wrote:


Image


.


Nasty :shock: It kind of makes you wonder what the inside of the wings look like in all the other Huff and Puffs out there, as I doubt very many get the level of care you are giving during inspections........



Well, I confess I missed this one because it obviously didn't just pop up this summer. :oops: I believe it has a lot to do with that black CAT hose (not SCAT, which is the orange stuff) from the fresh air vent rubbing up against the rib. The other side had SCAT tubing and no problems at all. It seems like whenever I see this black stuff there is corrosion underneath of it (like when it attaches to a flange on baffling for generator/mag cooling).

The rest of the plane looks pretty much like it did back in 1966...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:13 pm 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 8:25 pm
Posts: 5616
Location: The Misty Mountains...
HS-748 2A wrote:
You sound so militant Pie' and where did you ever get that idea anyhow~!? :wink:

'48


I know I sound militant, but it's been going around the boards and is very contagious... :D

viewtopic.php?f=27&t=77425&p=726517#p726517


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 8:50 pm 
Offline
Rank (9)
Rank (9)
User avatar

Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2008 10:39 pm
Posts: 1125
Location: Rock 101
That one was a rare occurance and I just can't help but bask in the glory.. :mrgreen:

I always enjoy your posts IFFP. :D

'48


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Dec 08, 2011 1:47 am 
Offline
Rank 2
Rank 2

Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 8:15 pm
Posts: 70
iflyforpie wrote:
I believe it has a lot to do with that black CAT hose (not SCAT, which is the orange stuff) from the fresh air vent rubbing up against the rib. The other side had SCAT tubing and no problems at all. It seems like whenever I see this black stuff there is corrosion underneath of it (like when it attaches to a flange on baffling for generator/mag cooling).

I've seen many a Musketeer with severe fuselage corrosion due to Beech using that crap for fresh air ventilation. When you start to see the white powder on the outside of the plane you know its never had a good going over.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2012 10:22 am 
Offline
Rank 0
Rank 0

Joined: Thu Sep 29, 2005 7:05 pm
Posts: 6
no


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon May 28, 2012 2:31 am 
Offline
Rank 0
Rank 0

Joined: Mon May 28, 2012 2:15 am
Posts: 2
This safety standards is a good example that major manufacturers must follow. It brings something positive to table and will elevate safety standards. I have read some similar articles related on the issue.

http://airsoc.com/articles/view/id/4fbfbe05c6f8fa9138000001/cessna-offers-training-on-corrosion-inspections?ev=10&evp=tl

and

http://integritythatworks.wordpress.com/2011/12/06/cessna-unveils-corrosion-inspection-program/


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 5:09 am 
Offline
Rank 4
Rank 4

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2005 6:22 am
Posts: 251
That cheap, black tubing is what has caused a lot of corrosion in the spar carry-through structures in C-177's. it has a very-short lifespan compared to SCAT and the inner wire rusts quickly.
I religiously misted my 177 with ACF-50 until reading about its unintended ability to actually allow rivets to work free, in that the thin-film would work between the pieces of metal that the rivet was supposed to hold tightly together, somewhat reducing the friction that was assumed to be created between the two pieces.
Although not yet an issue in my 1968- vintage machine due to having only 1850 hours TT, the last advice I received was to keep any TFD( thin-film dielectric) away from the biggest rivets; those near on on the main spars, the landing gear mounts, etc.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 


All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: lownslow, Raven2911b and 17 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

 
For questions/comments please send them to
webmaster@avcanada.ca


AvCanada Topsites List
AVIATION TOP 100 - www.avitop.com Avitop.com

While the administrators and moderators of this  forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as  quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. If you feel a  topic or post is inappropriate email us at support@avcanada.ca .  By reading these forums you acknowledge that  all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and  not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these  people) and hence will not be held liable. This website is not responsible or liable in any way for any false or misleading messages or job ads placed at our site.   

Use AvCanada's information at your own risk!

We reserve the right to remove any messages that we deem unacceptable.
  When you post a message, your IP is logged and may be provided to concerned parties where unethical or illegal  behavior is apparent. All rights reserved.