Ice Pilots - Season 3

[godsrcrazy]

Sorry it was a long night what i meant to say is the DHC-5 cannot go on skies.

What kind of shitty airplane cant go on skies?

skies (skz)
n.
Plural of sky.
v.
Third person singular present tense of sky.

I know of some that cant go on Skis

Sorry to offend you niss maybe when i get up to 6,400 posts i will learn to spell.

[niss]

Winking face means it's all in good fun.

[Colonel Sanders]

@ss in the face can lead to good fun: http://i.imgur.com/aFkO3.jpg

[NWONT]

Ya know what I think is a good idea...................training bonds!!!!

[The Hammer]

Does First Air really hire without an interview?

Not doing a single revenue flight would burn my a$$ too regardless of your time with the company.

I have turned down an opportunity to pick up a factory new airplane and the sim training that came with it because I had a lead and knew I wasn't going to give my employer what they deserved. Instead I flew a clapped out Ho' and a Swine until I got my chance elsewhere. It paid off 10 years later when my airline laid me off and my old boss remembered my actions.

Now that First Air is under TC's scrutiny after the crash, with the Herc's mechanical most days, and Buffalo's Electra's going great guns, it will be interesting to see what happens.

[black metal]

wow, i want to work for joe!! what an a## h###!!!

[N2]

After watching this show and seeing how things are run up there I kinda feel like a owe Joe a beer.......thanking him for not responding to my resume years ago!

[flyinthebug]

After watching this show and seeing how things are run up there I kinda feel like a owe Joe a beer.......thanking him for not responding to my resume years ago!

Im sure the feeling is mutual! How do you think its ok to take 20K in training and then bail a week or 2 later? Do you have any idea how frustrating that is for management? When we dole out 20K to train you and get you your PPC...and you bail in a week or 2, what kind of response did you expect from Joe? Ive had guys walk out with fresh PPC`s that *I* paid for, and believe me if it was YOUR money that guy just blew for you, you`d be pissed too. Actually, even though Joe lost it at the end and threw Gord out...I think he stayed far more composed than I would have been...especially when Gord was rolling his eyes at Joe. What utter disrespect for the man that paid your salary for 6 years and paid for all his upgrades...all without a training bond. And then we wonder why we need contracts and training bonds? Its exactly for guys like this Gord guy that could have had the class to at least tell Joe he was looking BEFORE Joe laid out the 20 K to train him. As Joe said, he could have prof`ed at least 3 other guys that would have stayed the year. But somehow you find something wrong with Joe being pissed? You really have no idea what it takes to run an airline...and how much 20 grand can affect your bottom line. Supporting this pilot is why we will have bonds for everyone at every air service in the not too distant future.
Fly safe all.

[backon3]

Joe did not pay 20 000 for Gord's PPC. Gord has worked off more than that during his time there. If you treat people like shit.. you get what you deserve. Period

[Colonel Sanders]

how much 20 grand can affect your bottom line

On that subject ... theoretically speaking, if someone with mushy
brains from pulling too many G's and in desperate need of adult
supervision walked through your door with their chequebook in hand ...

How much for DC-3 / C-46 type ratings, given that the candidate
has ATPL, thousands of hours of tailwheel time, and Beech 18 time?

[Beach 200]

Well I do think Gord could have said he was looking for a turbo prop job. Congrats to him on making the move and getting outta Buffalo's bullshit work atmosphere. I'm glad I never responded to there call years ago.
I do believe that Gord probably did not know he was going to get a job offer. I can understand that he felt his job hunt at first air was dead in the water and nothing might come of it. So your kinda stuck between a rock and a hard place in wondering if you should take the short notice upgrade to Captain on the C-46.
Joe being pissed is one thing but it's also the cost of doing business in a step up type company like Buffalo.

[SeptRepair]

They way I see it, Seeing how Joe treats people and knowing pilots and maintenance staff that previously worked for him, I suspect that if Gord had told him upfront before the upgrade, that he was looking for other work, Joe would have fired him immediately. Gord would be kicking frozen dog shits down the road jobless all because he put Joe's feelings and finances ahead of his own.

[teacher]

From my personal experience I can tell you that nobody looks out for you in this business. I have twice been the "good guy" and tried to help and be honest and it bit me in the ass. If you don't look after yourself MOST companies will take advantage of it. I've seen it, I've lived it and it cost me.

Now, don't get me wrong, you don't go out and screw people and operators on purpose but when the chips are down you have to do what's best for you and your career because a company will ALWAYS do what's good for them.

Who here wouldn't have taken the upgrade not knowing that they would have gotten the call just a day or so later? Do you take that chance? What if the call hadn't of come?

[godsrcrazy]

Teacher if I was unhappy were i was and sending out resumes planning on leaving. I would NOT take the upgrade. Were ever Gord went they didn't come looking for him he went looking first.

SeptRepair you may be correct if Gord told Joe he may have got punted. But he could have also just refused the upgrade and used any excuse from i am happy and comfortable flying the DC3. Or he could have said i don't feel i am ready. I think you get were i am going with this. The fact is he took the upgrade knowing he would bolt as quick as he could.

I know one thing if i ever bump into him i will defiantly thank him for another truing bond being shoved up our ass. I hope others on this site do the same.

[flyinthebug]

From my personal experience I can tell you that nobody looks out for you in this business. I have twice been the "good guy" and tried to help and be honest and it bit me in the ass. If you don't look after yourself MOST companies will take advantage of it. I've seen it, I've lived it and it cost me.

Now, don't get me wrong, you don't go out and screw people and operators on purpose but when the chips are down you have to do what's best for you and your career because a company will ALWAYS do what's good for them.

Who here wouldn't have taken the upgrade not knowing that they would have gotten the call just a day or so later? Do you take that chance? What if the call hadn't of come?

I understand what you and some of the others are saying. I dont disagree that you need to look out for #1 BUT...if you listen to the end when Joe throws Gord out... he says as hes walking away that he had "different information" in regards to whether Gord applied recently or not. He must have heard from someone up at First that one of his guys was looking for a spot with them OR that one of his guys was being looked at closely for a position.

Septrepair...I disagree. As Joe clearly stated to Gord....If he was straight with him, he could have spent his 20 grand on one of 3 or 4 others that would have stayed.

Im speaking from a business perspective. It was just bad business for Gord to burn his bridge this way. He invested 6 years with this company and a good reference would have went a long way. The question I pose to you is...You are a manager at First Air and you view this episode AFTER you`ve hired Gord. Wouldnt you be concerned that if he did it to Joe, he might do it to you as well? Maybe take his shiny new 737 PPC (TR) and head off to Westjet or even AC? A man with no integrity at one airline, will likely have none at another airline.

Im not down on Gord for his good fortune...if indeed it was good fortune. But Joe has been up there forever and im sure has some reliable sources that advised him Gord was already on his way out. Thats the only part of this that really troubles me, is that he didnt have the jam to face Joe and tell him he was looking. Joe may even have decided to PPC him anyway...but we`ll never know because Joe was disrespected and left holding his dick...and now im the idiot on the board for pointing it out.

Fly safe all.

[flyinthebug]

Teacher if I was unhappy were i was and sending out resumes planning on leaving. I would NOT take the upgrade. Were ever Gord went they didn't come looking for him he went looking first.

SeptRepair you may be correct if Gord told Joe he may have got punted. But he could have also just refused the upgrade and used any excuse from i am happy and comfortable flying the DC3. Or he could have said i don't feel i am ready. I think you get were i am going with this. The fact is he took the upgrade knowing he would bolt as quick as he could.

I know one thing if i ever bump into him i will defiantly thank him for another truing bond being shoved up our ass. I hope others on this site do the same.

Finally, someone who gets it. Thanks godsrcrazy for having some common sense.

[teacher]

Teacher if I was unhappy were i was and sending out resumes planning on leaving. I would NOT take the upgrade. Were ever Gord went they didn't come looking for him he went looking first.

SeptRepair you may be correct if Gord told Joe he may have got punted. But he could have also just refused the upgrade and used any excuse from i am happy and comfortable flying the DC3. Or he could have said i don't feel i am ready. I think you get were i am going with this. The fact is he took the upgrade knowing he would bolt as quick as he could.

I know one thing if i ever bump into him i will defiantly thank him for another truing bond being shoved up our ass. I hope others on this site do the same.

I've sent out resumes even if I was happy wher I was. If flying a clapped out vintage airplane was not the end game for his career than it is a prudent move. When looking for work you cast a wide net and see what you catch no? When the time is right the phone rings but you can't put your current job and career on hold. I don't work for Buffalo nor have I ever so I don't know the internal politics of saying "you're looking" and it's affects on your job. What if he said he's looking and nothing happens? Stay an FO just incase?

It does suck for an operator to lose someone like that BUT a look at the guys slogging it out on the ramp tells me he had already paid for that C-46 PPC ten folds already.

[iflyforpie]

Training pilots is part of the business. You figure out what your training costs are going to be, how many revenue hours you fly, and then you come up with an amortized figure to add to your rates. You've got to factor in attrition. Joe is smart enough to know by now that Buffalo isn't for everybody forever, and there are lots of other things that can ruin a training investment (lost medical, hitting a berm with a sled, etc).

$20,000 sounds like a lot to you or me (Is it $20,000 per person? Or per aircraft with more than one person?) and business owners will make a big deal out of it, but $20,000 is less than what it costs to fill an Electra to the brim with Jet-A. A friend of mine owns the local A&W and he was complaining he had to buy a $1000 oven to keep bread warm. I said what's the big deal? He said, what would you as an employee think of paying for that? Yeah, $1000 out of a $25,000/yr job really hurts; but $1000 out of a $1,000,000+ gross annual revenue is hardly anything...

And what are pilots supposed to do? Not apply to anywhere, then when you apply tell Joe and get treated like shit for who knows how long? I'm sure Buffalo has taken pilots from other jobs too (though God knows why?).

[godsrcrazy]

Teacher if I was unhappy were i was and sending out resumes planning on leaving. I would NOT take the upgrade. Were ever Gord went they didn't come looking for him he went looking first.

SeptRepair you may be correct if Gord told Joe he may have got punted. But he could have also just refused the upgrade and used any excuse from i am happy and comfortable flying the DC3. Or he could have said i don't feel i am ready. I think you get were i am going with this. The fact is he took the upgrade knowing he would bolt as quick as he could.

I know one thing if i ever bump into him i will defiantly thank him for another truing bond being shoved up our ass. I hope others on this site do the same.

I've sent out resumes even if I was happy wher I was. If flying a clapped out vintage airplane was not the end game for his career than it is a prudent move. When looking for work you cast a wide net and see what you catch no? When the time is right the phone rings but you can't put your current job and career on hold. I don't work for Buffalo nor have I ever so I don't know the internal politics of saying "you're looking" and it's affects on your job. What if he said he's looking and nothing happens? Stay an FO just incase?

It does suck for an operator to lose someone like that BUT a look at the guys slogging it out on the ramp tells me he had already paid for that C-46 PPC ten folds already.

Well i guess it takes all kinds. Its hard to believe someone that is truly happy in their job and were they live would send out resumes. Why would you do this to boost your ego or what? If your sending out resumes you are looking for a job or you have more money a time on your hands then you need. If your not looking for a job why are you waisting peoples time looking at a resume that will go no were. Sorry my friend but i call BS on anyone sending resumes out with out an intention of moving.

[Beefitarian]

(though God knows why?).

VINTAGE Electra!!

[wan2fly99]

I never liked the guy. I don't know him but just looking at him he seemed to have an attitude.

Oh well good for him he got into jets i guess but I was always taught never burn your bridges

[fish4life]

I agree he shouldn't have given attitude and rolled his eyes, but you can't fault him for doing the PPC on the C-46 then finding out he got the job at First Air if it is true that he applied 8 months ago and then got the call just now how long was he supposed to keep waiting and pushing off advancing at Buffalo hoping First Air was going to call him back?

[Galaxy]

Maybe all Gord really wants to do is spend some time with that cute girlfriend of his.

What a dick that training captain (Devin??) is. I guess if that's the way you're taught, that's the way you will teach.

[backon3]

The mistake you are all making is assuming that Joe is a rational human being.

[flyinthebug]

Maybe all Gord really wants to do is spend some time with that cute girlfriend of his.

What a dick that training captain (Devin??) is. I guess if that's the way you're taught, that's the way you will teach.

Now were gonna attack Devin?? He was trained by Arnie...who happens to be one of the easiest going guys around. So what do you mean by this statement? The kid will never forget to lock the throttles on take off again will he? Lesson learned? I think so. AND...Devin was the 1st to congratulate him and said he didnt expect him to do so well. He was proud of the young F/0 and now Devin is a dick? Gimme a break. My 1st CP pulled me outta my 206 on floats and told me if he ever saw me climb that steep again with his equipment, he`d kick my head in and send me packin. (Then he explained why he was so angry) Lesson learned that I NEVER forgot. Some old school teaching methods are still the BEST ones. You guys have pretty thin skin these days.

PS... I agree 100% with you though that his (Gord`s) lady is HOTTTTTTT