Flight attendant=Pilot???

Bcn-In-Bnd · Post by **Bcn-In-Bnd** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:34 am

I am not sure what this means, but!

CUPE Flight Attendants Score Ground-Breaking Pay Equity Victory for Canadian Women
TORONTO, March 22 /CNW/ - The Canadian Union of Public Employees' ground-breaking pay equity victory is long-overdue justice for flight attendants at Air Canada that will benefit women workers across the country, said CUPE Air Canada Component president Pamela Sachs today.

Sachs was reacting to the Federal Court of Appeal's decision that CUPE flight attendants at Air Canada should receive pay equity with male workers performing other jobs within the company.

"Air Canada had argued that the flight attendants, who are mainly women, don't work in the same 'establishment' as defined in the legislation, as pilots and mechanics who are mainly men. The court has ruled that they do," said Sachs.

"This is a ground-breaking decision for Canadian women. The narrow interpretation of 'establishment' as outlined in section 11 of the Pay Equity Act has been thrown out," Sachs said. "The Court of Appeal's decision redefines 'establishment' to include workers within the same company and therefore opens the door to long-overdue justice for women workers who are underpaid compared to their male counterparts working for the same employer. Our victory will certainly have positive implications for women in other industries."

"CUPE has been working hard in every sector to raise women's wages and achieve fairness and equity for women," said CUPE National President Paul Moist. "We're concerned about how long it has taken us to get to this point with Air Canada but we hope that the employer will stop stalling and make a commitment to pay equity now."

"CUPE fought long and hard, our members stood firm despite all the arguments and delays made by the company. We are very proud of the significant landmark flight attendants have reached for women workers today and we expect Air Canada to comply with this ruling and to stop fighting fair treatment of its flight attendants," Sachs said.

The court handed down its ruling late Thursday, March 18. The union first filed a complaint to the pay equity tribunal in 1987.

Inverted2 · Post by **Inverted2** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:48 am

I don't exactly think that Airlines pay women less to do the same job, doesn't make sense. Not like women have a tough time in this industry. Plus, womens underwear are so much more comfortable!

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:59 am

A well maneuvered victory, using sexual discrimination as a piss-poor excuse to fool the uninformed. Just out of curiosity, and not downplaying the important role they play, but how long does it to train a person with 0 aviation experience to be a fully qualified and functioning flight attendant?

How long does it take to train a person with 0 aviation experience to be a fully qualified AME? How long does it take to train a person with 0 aviation experience to be a fully qualified Pilot?

Next thing we will have aircraft groomers file a court action, claiming that they are being underpaid (compared to flight attendants, AME's and pilots) as an act of racial discrimination because many are visible minorities and immigrants.

Bcn-In-Bnd · Post by **Bcn-In-Bnd** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:08 am

PJ

YA, what the hell why dont we just pay everyone the same.
It would make the payroll an easy job

Does anyone know if this kind of thing could effect a company like WESTJET or will it effect AC only??

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 8:11 am

Da Comrade. I akree.

chewsta · Post by **chewsta** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:20 am

I believe the AC FA training program is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 6 weeks.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:32 am

Drops his hope of being a pilot. Applies as an FA. w00t 747 Captain pay for 1/10th the work..

RB211 · Post by **RB211** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:55 am

Bcn-In-Bnd wrote:PJ

...Does anyone know if this kind of thing could effect a company like WESTJET or will it effect AC only??

As a federal ruling, whatever this means effects all air carriers, including WJ I believe.

Okemow Beardy · Post by **Okemow Beardy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 10:55 am

chewsta wrote:I believe the AC FA training program is somewhere in the neighbourhood of 6 weeks.

Try 3 days. Thats all it took to train the scabs last time they went on strike.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:12 am

Oh, well.. Doesn't matter. With FAs pay going from 30k - $120k. I don't see Air Canada sticking around very long..

Looks like wj will be firing it's FA's and promoting the SOs to FAs.

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:32 am

That . . . . or look out for the big drop in pilot and AME pay. After all, it is equality that they are after, right? What is the FA pay again at Jetsgo? $18/hr? (times 85 per month)

milton · Post by **milton** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:50 am

I seriously hope this is an early April fools joke...they serve muffins and coffee..who do they think they are? What's next, nurses are gonna demand the same pay as surgeons based on sexual descrimination...janitors in schools the same pay as the principals? Equal pay for equal responsiblities and qualifications, YES...not for equal environments!.....

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 11:58 am

milton wrote:I seriously hope this is an early April fools joke...they serve muffins and coffee..who do they think they are? What's next, nurses are gonna demand the same pay as surgeons based on sexual descrimination...janitors in schools the same pay as the principals? Equal pay for equal responsiblities and qualifications, YES...not for equal environments!.....

LoL, Milton.... *runs off to the Nurses Union* Common Gals we deserve better....

*rolls eyes at society*

Oh, well. If AC was smart they'll just put some foreigners onto their staff as FAs.

Sucks to be the FAs when they're laid off.

milton · Post by **milton** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:11 pm

actually on second thought...the flight crew should go to the back and serve cookies while two of the FA's shoot the CAT II to minimums...u think the FA's will object??

HEY, we are all equal right?

Panama Jack · Post by **Panama Jack** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 12:16 pm

My apoligies to "OOU812" on theairlinewebsite.com, but it was so good:

...Ding Dong.

"Hello"

Hi Pam, How is everything back there? We were just on the radio with maintenance because we believe that we have lost our reverse thrust capabilities. We are having a little trouble with these new performance charts and could really use your guidance... and maintenance would like to ask you about this new AD that came out on the rudder actuators....(silence)...seriously though, one black and one cream and sugar whenever you get a chance. Thanks dear..click.

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:03 pm

http://cupe.ca/action/airlinesafety

The airlines have once again asked Transport Canada to let them have one flight attendant for every 50 passengers, up from one attendant for every 40 passengers.

ROFL.. looks like Airlines are going to fix their predicament after all..

cyyz · Post by **cyyz** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 1:15 pm

http://www.newswire.ca/en/releases/arch ... c2945.html

LOL.. it's true.

justplanecrazy · Post by **justplanecrazy** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 5:14 pm

Bcn-In-Bnd wrote: TORONTO, March 22 /CNW/ - The Canadian Union of Public Employees' ground-breaking pay equity victory is long-overdue justice for flight attendants at Air Canada that will benefit women workers across the country, said CUPE Air Canada Component president Pamela Sachs today.

I thought the whole point of calling the bi$#*es Flight Attendants over Cookie Pushers or Stewardess's was to remove the connotation that it was a female job. And benefit women workers across Canada? What's next, women nurses demanding the same wages as male doctors... oh wait... they are. Next time I fly Air Canada I'm calling them Stewardess's and Cookie Pushers or maybe even bi$#*@e$. Wonder if I'll get my pillow and cold cola then?

Swerved · Post by **Swerved** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 6:22 pm

I'm not going to touch the gender equity thing, 'cause it sounds a little ridiculous...just want to set a couple of things straight. The training is 8 weeks, and nobody's making close to $120000...more like a little over half that for the most senior pursers.

Swerved

Wilbur · Post by **Wilbur** » Tue Mar 23, 2004 7:01 pm

Talk about knee jerk over-reaction to an issue.

Do any of you understand how "pay equity" works? It is NOT everyone getting the same pay regardless of what you do. It IS a process of setting a financial value for a particular job description using an objective process. A few of the typical measurement criteria include things like:

1. Educational requirements
2. Decision making authority
3. Financial responsibility
4. The complexity of decisions
5. Exposure to workplace hazards
6. Communication skill levels
7. Depth and breadth of knowledge required
8. Responsibility for others

Typically, a company evaluates all of their various job descriptions based on their chosen measurement criteria. Points are awarded for each category, and ultimately salaries are assigned to point ranges. Some positions will get upgraded, and some others down.

I would suggest that pilots would score highly in decision making authority and complexity, knowledge, and technical areas. FA's would emphasize communication skills, responsibility for others, and other people oriented areas. At the end of the day, they won't be making as much as the pilots, but they probably will make more than customer service agents, groomers, baggage handlers, clerical support staff, etc.

Flight attendant=Pilot???

Flight attendant=Pilot???

Neither do I

Re: Flight attendant=Pilot???