Medevac ops/duty times

[tomato]

Take a good look at this topic guys....this is what happens when u let the private sector in on the medicvac system


They screw the pilot, the safety of the flight, the patient and the system all so they can sqeeze the almighty dollar.


Makeing the Medivac system a training ground by screwing the pilot on pay and on Duty time is not right. The medivac system in Canada is an estential service and should be treated and operated as one.

[FL280]

Read the topic on Ornge in here, people are DEMANDING that it return to the private operators in the province. Who's right? Who knows.

As for duty times, we used to have the issue with the 14-3 cycle as well. It was that if somehow in your 14 on that you didn't work 3 days in a row you were reset for another 14, without actually being "off" for the 3 you didn't work. It's been happening for years, and until some regulatory changes come about I can't really see it changing in the near future. Certain operators need these 'gray' areas to turn a profit, perceived safety is one thing, operational safety tends to be overlooked and buried under the SMS banner.

[4murslooth]

Northern Flyer .... that's exactly my point.

If you don't have scheduled times when you can wind down, you're on duty ... hence, have no time free from duty.

[bobcaygeon]

Bobcaygeon wrote;

As stated again, if the rules are enforced equally to remove all competitive advantage created by POI interpretation of this issue alone, which should be realistic, I have no problem with eliminating the "good til, fresh at.." operation.

By this statement I can assume you are one of those type of operations, would you have a problem telling TC the above statement, without anonymity?

Too late already done, now how does an operator compete when the competitors are not held to the same rules. You have to tell the boss a valid reason why revenues are down or costs go up to keep revenues the same relative to last year and other carriers staffing levels.

As for private vs government operated, in case you have forgotten the government pays for both and private will always do it cheaper and that what's the government wants . If the government wants 2 full crews on an aircraft (12 hr shifts) then they have to be prepared to pay for it. Many governments are not willing to do this, other provinces are and this topic dies a quick death.

If government type run operation like ORNGE is the best then bend over taxpayer.

PS the MB gov. operates 3 citation jets (2 dedicated medivac and one stndby) under a state exception into short gravel strips that commercial operators are forbidden to do, is this safer? King Air or Citation, both go to sim. One has an infrared camera on the nose, the newest was online almost a year late due to mods required for crazy bells and whistles resulting in reinforcing the airframe.

Note: MB is no bigger than most provinces yets runs medivac jets, Alberta (money bags) does not. A fast turbo prop would easily suit all but the most severe trips.

The MB medivac dispatch system is broken and needs to be fixed, hopefully the current actions by TC and MB government will do that.

Make it equal across the board.

PS A Jazz reserve pilot likely can go from reserve A (on call at 0300l to 1700l, Mbav8r what time can said pilot fly til under the contract, it isn't 1700l is it? but I went to bed planning on a 0300 phone call ) then have 36 hrs rest and be on reserve B, which lets you do the lovely stand-up ie last flight in, first flight out with maybe 5hrs at the hotel. Sounds like days to nights in less than 48 hrs to me.

[mbav8r]

PS A Jazz reserve pilot likely can go from reserve A (on call at 0300l to 1700l, Mbav8r what time can said pilot fly til under the contract, it isn't 1700l is it? but I went to bed planning on a 0300 phone call ) then have 36 hrs rest and be on reserve B, which lets you do the lovely stand-up ie last flight in, first flight out with maybe 5hrs at the hotel. Sounds like days to nights in less than 48 hrs to me.

I haven't been on reserve for quite awhile so I had to look it up. For a reserve period of 0300-1700 the latest you could work is 2300, 20 hours from start of reserve period. You have to be given 2 hours notice, so the latest you have to accept a flight would be 1500, therefore the longest shift in this senario is 10 hours.
To the second question, yes you could go from A to B, key difference is you know exactly when you need to be available. So if it were me, being the responsible guy I am, I would acclimate myself to the new shift by staying up as long as I could and sleeping as late as I could. There is no perfect system but to compare Jazz reserve to 24 hour on call, good till fresh at type flying, is just plain absurd.
BTW, if we were to work 3 consecutive 12 hr duty periods we would have to have 24 hr free from duty and to be clear, free from duty does NOT mean in the hanger washing airplanes.

[co-joe]

In my experience the charter world was worse. They'll send you to whatever town, reset you in a hotel or camp and expect you to continue on with a "14 extendable to 15" duty day, and when you get home, min rest turn around the next day. At least medevacs there's usually a night crew covering the other 12 hour shift. Charters there's seldom anyone else.

In the end the CARs are only written to offload the blame to pilots so TC can't be litigated. It's up to you to say you're fatigued and get fired. Nobody flying, nobody gets hurt right?

[bobcaygeon]

I haven't been on reserve for quite awhile so I had to look it up. For a reserve period of 0300-1700 the latest you could work is 2300, 20 hours from start of reserve period. You have to be given 2 hours notice, so the latest you have to accept a flight would be 1500, therefore the longest shift in this senario is 10 hours.
To the second question, yes you could go from A to B, key difference is you know exactly when you need to be available. So if it were me, being the responsible guy I am, I would acclimate myself to the new shift by staying up as long as I could and sleeping as late as I could. There is no perfect system but to compare Jazz reserve to 24 hour on call, good till fresh at type flying, is just plain absurd.
BTW, if we were to work 3 consecutive 12 hr duty periods we would have to have 24 hr free from duty and to be clear, free from duty does NOT mean in the hanger washing airplanes.

Jazz reserve rules are probably the best in Canada but you do have the backing of the largest pilot union in the world and this is the best they can do? Oh wait.... Only junior captain's and FO's usually work reserve, so it's OK to F#$k them because that is what Canadian pilot's do to each other, it is our "mission statement". AC's reserve rules are even worse. At the airline level they just use better lube, so it's OK

Using your numbers you could get called at 0900 and work til 2300. But you went to bed at 1900 the night before to get the 8 hrs uninterrupted rest required by law to be rested for a 0300 phone call with a 0500 report time. If you can go to bed at 1900 and sleep till 0900 or later, I am jealous. It would explain how you survived MB medivacs or makes me wonder how you survived at all if you need that much sleep?

EVEN PLAYING FIELD ACROSS THE BOARD!!!!

[Dayofthedogs]

The MB medevac operators have changed the duty/reset periods. TC did a little house cleaning with regards to Duty/reset and online training (aerostudies) a month or two back in MB. Changes came about a little while before fast had to take some guys offline for online training.