Ice Pilots - Season 3

[Driving Rain]

http://www.warbirdradio.com/2012/01/ice ... m-eastern/

Listen to the Podcast with Mike and Justin.

[Kilo-Kilo]

Good link. Interesting to hear about the abundance of 100LL in contrast to the doom and gloom they put out on the show.

Somebody posted an ad by Joe looking for a new chief pilot a while ago, but from the sounds of it that is still Quagmire's gig...(itty).

Jason, Brian, and Baloo? Those radio guys should really write the guest's names down if they don't know them.

[dstechnical]

can you imagine just watching this show and junior coming up to you and asking for 60K for a commercial pilots licence.
this show signifies everything that is wrong with aviation. Sets aviation back 30yrs.

[cdnpilot77]

this show signifies everything that is wrong with aviation. Sets aviation back 30yrs.

Same thing Showgirls did for strippers...just sayin

I mean Vegas dancers....my apologies

[MrWings]

I hear Kelly is the latest to bear the brunt of Joe's wrath and is no longer with Buffalo.

Has the guy always been that ornery or is he getting worse?

[SeptRepair]

Wow that didn't take long to get out. Kelly is a remarkably hard working person who I am sure will be able to find employment at the drop of a hat.

[MrWings]

Yes she is and I believe she has.

[wan2fly99]

Saw show last nigh Jan-11

Man got upset I saw Ernie and all of a sudden I thought he seemed much bigger and stronger man before and to seeinmg him that size now and looking frail.

Poor guy fighting cancer First his daughter now him He seemed to be such a nice man and now seeing him like that I felt so bad for him Still had that smile and good humor thought.

I thought what a man Would have loved to learn to fly from him

Ernie best of luck and best wishes on a speedy recovery and may God bless yu and the your family

[MIQ]

I think his name is Arnie. I felt very sorry for him too. Seems like the family is going through a tough period of time these years. All the best for the future!

Other than that, I think they definitely need to cut back on their usage of the word 'Rookie'. I think we all know by now that 20-year-something C46 Co-Pilot Larry is not an old experienced Arnie with lots of hours but nevertheless he's still a pilot who went through years of training and finally got his PPC on the C46...

[ybwflyguy]

Guess it makes good television to fly through thick smoke, saw 9,000' on their altimeter...these birds used to fly the hump back in the day so not sure why Devon wouldn't climb up a few thousand to escape the worst of it. Heck, he could even wind the altimeter down to say 13,000 for the cameras as they didn't have O2!

[jetav8r]

They were already at 9000 BEFORE they requested 9000.

[fougner]

.

[stone69]

I do realize it's a TV show, but some things just don't add up to this old driver airframe. A few weeks ago, Devon was " training " the young " rookie " and I just couldn't believe how the training went. There was little or no " training " at all. It was just dump on the kid when he made a mistake. Sarcasm is not instructing. Then he pass the PPC and we move on to this week. What sort of a " Captain " would let an in-experienced co-pilot tune the wrong beacon for an approach and then let him get to a point where the kid is again humiliated. Way to go Devon... what ever became of crew co-operation or CRM as it's called today ? I guess it was the kids fault that while the starboard was vibrating and then the port starts acting up that the stressed out Captain never suspected carb ice..... then when Devon decides to shut down the starboard engine, he's all over the kid about the speed of the shutdown. Give the kid a break ! If the kid sped through the shutdown to satisfy Devon and managed to shutdown the port instead, things would have gotten really interesting...... Not suggesting that Devon can't fly, but he sure can't instruct and he could learn a few things about how to handle a cockpit.

[ybwflyguy]

Not suggesting that Devon can't fly, but he sure can't instruct and he could learn a few things about how to handle a cockpit.

+1 from what we've seen on the screen. Although I'd be wound up too with the amount of time that FO says "Roger"! What is it with this "Sir" BS too...how about letting him call you Devon to try and relax the kid a bit and get rid of the old-school "Captain-is-God" mentality. I think he's picking up FO training tips from Joe.

[fish4life]

I'd have to disagree, I bet the kid tuning up the wrong beacon or the back course whatever it happened to be was a great learning lesson. Devon let him get far enough into it that he wouldn't forget his mistake and hopefully never do it again without jeopardizing safety. If he did that when the wx was mins then I'd disagree but correcting the kid much earlier on sure won't drill home the point of how easy you can kill yourself as letting it develop and then showing the kid the hills he would have hit later on. Put it this way nothing prevents a 1000 hour VFR pilot from getting his MIFR and then flying a navijo, I'm afraid if that were the case and he made the same mistake that day we'd be reading about another CFIT accident due to an incorrectly flown procedure, it's not a small mistake such as putting flaps down before gear or vice versa it was a potentially lethal one.

[Indanao]

Devon's not an Instructor - he's a Pilot. There to show em how it's done, not to teach em how to do it.

[flyinthebug]

I'd have to disagree, I bet the kid tuning up the wrong beacon or the back course whatever it happened to be was a great learning lesson. Devon let him get far enough into it that he wouldn't forget his mistake and hopefully never do it again without jeopardizing safety. If he did that when the wx was mins then I'd disagree but correcting the kid much earlier on sure won't drill home the point of how easy you can kill yourself as letting it develop and then showing the kid the hills he would have hit later on. Put it this way nothing prevents a 1000 hour VFR pilot from getting his MIFR and then flying a navijo, I'm afraid if that were the case and he made the same mistake that day we'd be reading about another CFIT accident due to an incorrectly flown procedure, it's not a small mistake such as putting flaps down before gear or vice versa it was a potentially lethal one.

Agreed! I think it instills in the candidate the necessity to NOT make that same mistake. A slap on the wrist and some "old school" teaching methods are actually a great way to get your points across, and ensure they are learned.

ybwflyguy...In regards to the young man calling Devin "Sir"...thats just a show of respect. Its a shame you see it as him lacking balls. He knows Devin is "god" on that aircraft, that flight, so he shows respect to the one he is learning from. There should be more of that IMHO. Respect for the left seat, if not for the person (necessarily) in it...because whoever is in it, earned it.

My instructors and training capts over the years were most effective when they allowed me to carry on with my mistake. Infact, it even happened on my PPL ride. The flight examiner knew I was off course and let me continue until *I* figured it out...all the while knowing exactly where he was. I got a 2/5 on diversions with a briefing, but he passed me because I figured out my mistake and corrected it before it would have become dangerous. Thats how you learn. I didnt feel humiliated...but I felt stupid for not knowing better. I never forgot and have never once been lost in an aircraft since (and thats b4 GPS days)

Love the show, keep em coming!

[Driving Rain]

I'd have to disagree, I bet the kid tuning up the wrong beacon or the back course whatever it happened to be was a great learning lesson.

+ 1 You teach how you were taught. At least that's how it worked for me. Lets not forget they were VFR at the time. From now on the Kid will cross check before he sets up his HSI.
I spent 10 hours with Devon in a 215 last summer and he's a pleasure to fly with, hard working and never complained.

[stone69]

Devon's not an Instructor - he's a Pilot. There to show em how it's done, not to teach em how to do it.

Then what the hell was he doing flying with the kid prior to his PPC ?

[Driving Rain]

Then what the hell was he doing flying with the kid prior to his PPC ?

You will have noticed it was a freight haul with no passengers. I realize that Jimmy Essary was on board but acting as a crew member so it's allowed. This is the real world after all not a flight school.
You'll have also noticed in the last episode that when they had a paying passenger for the oil spill trip that the co-pilot Ian Bottomley (ppc'd c-46) was flying with Devon. Over the years I've checked many guys out while on freight runs. Kills two birds with one stone.

[MIQ]

I think it's not so much about the old school learning methods themselves but rather more about the attitude that's involved with it. I'm sure he could cut back a little bit on this attitude and would still be able to teach Larry a good lesson. My instructor also lets me carry on with my mistakes until I figure them out myself or as long as it's safe. Definitely a good way to remember important things but you can still try to be nice about it and obviously Larry is not showing a lack of respect. So it could definitely be a tiny bit more laid back in my opinion.

[Driving Rain]

Lets all remember that Larry is getting paid to learn as opposed to paying to learn..... Big difference. Que the uproar

[Naveed]

What kind of CRM is "Stay out of my way".

[Driving Rain]

That was BAD. When Devon moves on and he will, he'll have to come to terms with that.

[Canoehead]

What kind of CRM is "Stay out of my way".

I would suggest that (film editing considered) while wrestling the beast down he noticed that Larry's legs/knees/hands got in the way once or twice. I'm sure Larry knew exactly what he meant.