50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

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The Raven
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by The Raven »

How will this affect Westjet mainline (WestDad)? I assume WestDad will give up some routes to WestProp. Does this mean stagnation at WestDad as far as upgrades to the left seat go?
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bmc
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by bmc »

Brilliant move for Westjet. This will provide more flow for the mainline. It supports their interline strategy, offering more international flow to support those routes. Plus, the Q400 is hard to beat offering great economics, range, comfort.

AC will not like this.
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aileron
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by aileron »

Hmm, we have 26 already... Big task on your hands, sure hope you don't bite off more than you can chew. Good luck!
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Last edited by aileron on Fri Jan 20, 2012 7:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
stickontheice
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by stickontheice »

A little worried that raccoon is on the menu? Probably tastes like chicken anyways. We have a great leadership team in place. We'll be fine thanks for your concern though. Ps. It's already not allready
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bmc
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by bmc »

I forgot to add that Westjet has a lot of brand loyalty and brand recognition. Not only will new markets see new point to point, but new flow opportunities.

....and you do have an excellent management team. I've known most of them for a long long time. It's nice to see this team together. No dummies here. A good group of switched on airline folk.

Have fun.
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yycflyguy
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by yycflyguy »

I dunno. I think WJ pilots are in for a Rocky road.

1. What scope protections does the association have to prevent moving 737's to the newly established "regional" airline for less money?
2. Will there be a flow through agreement?
3. Will there be a flow back agreement?
4. Will the regional airline be based in YYC as well? Hard to imagine 50 Q400s or ATRs serving only Alberta/BC/Sask
5. Will the WAWCON be the same at both airlines?
6. Will a Capt on the Q400 make more than a 737 FO?
7. Will there be a limit as to training between the two types?

It's my cynical nature, but if I am a WJ pilot this is NOT a good thing.
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Inverted2
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by Inverted2 »

Hopefully it will not be another Skyregional or Georgian with pitiful wages...... I was hoping to hear it was being done in-house!
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Rotten Apple #1
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

yycflyguy:

1) None. All issues relating to possible new entity are to be discussed with employees going forward.

2) See response 1)

3) See response 1)

4) No.

5) No.

6) Same as 1)

7) Probably.


To your final comment, career expectations will probably change if you are an FO currently on the list at WestJet: the nature of life in a nasty, brutish, and unfair world. Not the end of the world, just the dawn of another new one.
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rudder
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by rudder »

Inverted2 wrote:Hopefully it will not be another Skyregional or Georgian with pitiful wages...... I was hoping to hear it was being done in-house!
WJPA have a chance here to do something to defend the value of the profession. I wonder if they will choose that path or instead throw the unborn under the bus and instead embrace any corporate initiative that will instead simply increase the stock price?

A rising tide lifts all boats. A race to the bottom eventually sinks us all. Do the right thing and earn the continued respect of your peers.
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yycflyguy
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by yycflyguy »

Rotten Apple #1 wrote:yycflyguy:

1) None. All issues relating to possible new entity are to be discussed with employees going forward.

2) See response 1)

3) See response 1)

4) No.

5) No.

6) Same as 1)

7) Probably.


To your final comment, career expectations will probably change if you are an FO currently on the list at WestJet: the nature of life in a nasty, brutish, and unfair world. Not the end of the world, just the dawn of another new one.
Agreed that it is the dawn of a new era. It is the dawn of the problems that have historically plagued every other airline operating multiple aircraft types.

I vaguely remember some WJ pilots voicing their displeasure with executive compensation and bonus structure in the not-so-distant past. Now there is a wedge between the company and the employees. The company will most definitely have different salary and work conditions dependant on the type. If I am management, I establish a lower pay scale with greater efficiencies and without the encumbrances of scope protections, I move the inefficient 737 flying to the Q400. You know. To stay competitive and maintain your market share. You continue to move everything over.

Now you will have multiple bases.

Why will those YYZ guys get better flying than the YYC guys? Especially those who have been faithfully based in YYC for years?

Now you will have political games played between the bases. Ask anybody that works for a company with multiple bases. There will be haves and have-nots based on your domicile.

This is a can of worms. Good luck. You're gonna need it.
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rudder
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by rudder »

yycflyguy wrote: Now you will have multiple bases.

Why will those YYZ guys get better flying than the YYC guys? Especially those who have been faithfully based in YYC for years?

Now you will have political games played between the bases. Ask anybody that works for a company with multiple bases. There will be haves and have-nots based on your domicile.

This is a can of worms. Good luck. You're gonna need it.
Wouldn't some of the 'ported' 737 FO's that are domiciled in YYZ rather be YYZ based Q400 Capt? Will this opportunity be available or is the 'separate company' plan a barrier to improving the lifestyle of 737 pilots that will be commuting indefinitely and are years away from the left seat at WJ mainline?
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Rotten Apple #1
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by Rotten Apple #1 »

Good discussion points yycflyguy. There is a need for some creative, outside the box leadership from our leaders (management and pilot-world). I echo your comments on multiple bases; we've mostly all experienced the 'me too' point of view.

Nominations opened today for our WJPA election. What a great time to run and have a direct hand in shaping the future for our pilots!
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Realitychex
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by Realitychex »

CanadianEh wrote:In my most humble opinion I think WestJet should stick to the winning formula that has made it (and other airlines that follow the same formula such as SouthWest) so successful. It is always tempting for airlines to continue growing, but it is common knowledge that airlines realize fewer advantages from economies of scale versus economies of scope and density. Just my thoughts.
The Southwest of 2012 is a completely different beast than the Southwest of 1996.

8)
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KAG
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by KAG »

rudder wrote:
yycflyguy wrote: Now you will have multiple bases.

Why will those YYZ guys get better flying than the YYC guys? Especially those who have been faithfully based in YYC for years?

Now you will have political games played between the bases. Ask anybody that works for a company with multiple bases. There will be haves and have-nots based on your domicile.

This is a can of worms. Good luck. You're gonna need it.
Wouldn't some of the 'ported' 737 FO's that are domiciled in YYZ rather be YYZ based Q400 Capt? Will this opportunity be available or is the 'separate company' plan a barrier to improving the lifestyle of 737 pilots that will be commuting indefinitely and are years away from the left seat at WJ mainline?
Remains to be seen. We have no answers as of yet, but be sure a lot of opinions/ideas will be voiced in the upcoming town hall meetings. Stand by for further.
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DanJ
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by DanJ »

rudder wrote:
Wouldn't some of the 'ported' 737 FO's that are domiciled in YYZ rather be YYZ based Q400 Capt? Will this opportunity be available or is the 'separate company' plan a barrier to improving the lifestyle of 737 pilots that will be commuting indefinitely and are years away from the left seat at WJ mainline?
Why would they start another company if the idea was to make it easy for pilots to move from jets to props and vice versa?
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rhythm101
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by rhythm101 »

Let's not forget that any publicly traded company is responsible to it's share holders and therefore the stock price as of right now. Not it's employees, the industry or even the future stock price or future careers of it's employees. I am sure this annoucement is going to be good for the immediate stock price What it holds for the future of WJ pilot's, other employees or even the future stock price is impossible to predict. The only sure thing is it will lead to AC hiring a bunch of overpaid manager's to evaluate the threat to it's market share. :wink:
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B_Boomer_54
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by B_Boomer_54 »

aileron wrote:Hmm, we have 26 allready... Big task on your hands, sure hope you don't bite off more than you can chew. Good luck!
I think you guys are the ones who need to be worried. By the sounds of it, you are.

Way to go westjet.
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rudder
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by rudder »

B_Boomer_54 wrote:
aileron wrote:Hmm, we have 26 allready... Big task on your hands, sure hope you don't bite off more than you can chew. Good luck!
I think you guys are the ones who need to be worried. By the sounds of it, you are.

Way to go westjet.
If PAH were a publicly traded stock it would be dropping like a stone today. RD estimated it's value at $450M in the aborted IPO attempt. Wonder what that number is now?

If I was PAH I would call Calgary and beg them to buy it for a fraction of $450M.
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pika
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by pika »

Why would they start another company if the idea was to make it easy for pilots to move from jets to props and vice versa?
Why do you think that is the idea behind getting another aircraft type?
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iwannasoar
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Re: 50 Q400 at WJ being farmed out

Post by iwannasoar »

ziggy wrote:Yeah realized that after the fact. Anyhoo, still no credibility. No internal memo was sent out. Lets wait and see what the real story is. Probably wont have to wait too long.

Nice Try Ziggster! You heartfelt apology accepted!

I was actually sitting a table at a bar in an unspecified layover location. The table next me me had what appeared to be a couple of WJ pilots. They we're discussing this topic in detail. I was there with a non-aviation buddy so they had no idea I was listening intently.

If I was at WJ sitting in the right seat and waiting for a chance at an upgrade and all of a sudden the company is getting new aircraft and sending them somewhere else I'd be a bit pissed. I'd see the left seat of the Q400 as a possibility. It may not be the choice for everyone but if the capital to purchase and run the aircraft comes from the "main line" company shouldn't the main line company employees have a crack at it? I think so. Scope "WILL" affect your future in ways that you cannot even begin to imagine. Capture it while you can because when it's gone it'll never come back.

My comment about the Kool Aid is in regards to the company continually capitalizing on your good will and creating a profit from it. If your good will creates a return should you not get an appropriate percentage of that return?
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