AVCANADA

(80% of Jazz, Porter, Hawkair, Perimeter, North Cariboo)

My crude math puts that at around 60K/year for a Q400 Captain. "Race to the Bottom," we all carry a piece of that cross.

This may be a new low, the US style regionals paying poverty wages. Worse of all - Pilots in the industry will defend it.

All in the name of defending their respective employer, instead of defending the Profession.

The few at WJ pulling the big T4's fly 18 - 20 days / Month, no offence guys but you can keep it.

Not sure what you mean about the flying 18-20 days per month but we dont fly that much here. 16 tops. Usually less.

It's a small world and an even small industry. I (we) all have plenty of friends flying for both Airlines. I know plenty of Westjetters with their nose firmly in the overtime (pig flying) trough.

So race to the bottom at WJ Regional?

wholly owned subsidiary, separate OC and list
Pilots will earn 80% of regional industry median (80% of Jazz, Porter, Hawkair, Perimeter, North Cariboo)
Flow through to mainline at 4 to 1 ratio with off the street
Mainline to Regional and back once in a career but go to year 1 payscale and conditions of the regional, so poverty wages and no guarantee to get back to mainline unless a "spot" opens up
Mainline block hour and fin guarantee of 2012 levels going forward but can change due to "economic uncertainty"
Only eligible for 10% ESP vs 20% at mainline
employee pays 50% of benefits vs 30% at mainline
Profit sharing same as at mainline
In event of layoff at mainline you bump down into regional

80% of regional median? Are you serious?

I hope the WJPA says no to this in a BIG way.

Bede and everyone else at WJ:

My comments are not derogatory against WJ or its pilots but you guys need to know that this proposal is EXACTLY one of the issues that we have been dealing with at AC. Read any one of a dozen threads on the AC LCC. Without scope protection, you are going to get raped in the near future.

It is a global phenomena. If you are not familiar with it please read up on QANTAS and Jetstar and ask yourself if there are any parallels to the road your buddies in management want to take YOUR airline... the same upper management that wont be around for your 25 year career.

If you would like to know more of the battle between ACPA and the AC LCC initiatives you can contact me directly.

Best of luck.

You are entirely missing the point. WJ is not AC. The fact that WJ management is talking to the employees about an idea, not a done deal, should be your first clue. Since you really don't know what is going on as you don't have the details, why don't you save the negative comments. At least that way you won't look quite so clueless when it all works out for them.

Dude, put the Kool-aid down for a second and ask yourself honestly. Could this happen to me? It is exactly your attitude that your management will be counting on to slide 737's to a lower cost operation.

Dude, put the Kool-aid down for a second and ask yourself honestly. Could this happen to me? It is exactly your attitude that your management will be counting on to slide 737's to a lower cost operation.

Rudder I had the same question as Bede,
But can you de-factor the rate like u did for the 757, IE what is the cash allocated to a dash skipper before it's inflated with the 757 and RJ wage.

Cheers

Fish

Could happen to us? Sure it could, but will it? I will wait until I see some evidence that management want's to screw us, then I'll change my tune, but not before. All I see is an executive that wants to expand with a regional airline and is willing to consult the employee group. Why should we pilots be the one's to start the cycle of distrust that permeates your company. I'm not much of a rah-rah WJ type guy but I have yet to be disappointed by anyone at WJ.

Gregg and Cam (the COO) are smart enough to know that screwing the pilots will result in a radically different corporate culture and may result in the loss of their jobs. Just look at what happened to other executives that tried this.

I bet every flight instructor, and 703 pilot likes this idea. The only opposition seems to be from those at AC. Grow up boys and be thankful we all have good paying jobs.

I bet those instructors and 703 pilots would rather work for WestJet than its subsidiary.

I'm sure that every WestJet pilot is excited about this, and your strong relationship with management will ensure that your concerns are adressesed going forward.

But just thinking critically, I cannot understand why you wouldn't want to keep this in house?

All employees have always had the opportunity to invest up to 20% of their pay into WJA shares, which is matched 100% by the company.

I dunno stu,
You must have some time off from collecting signatures to displace guys in our own shop. Here we have an AC union guy telling WJ shame! Lol.

As for the race to the bottom, it's the same story as before when WJ first opened. Captains making 60k etc.. Everyone said they are ruining the industry. Now look.

I have a buddy who has been there 11 yrs and he paid 100 k in tax alone for 2011...

So what you are saying is for example a 1000 hr pilot working in the bush could get on there and have a flow thru to mainline( the 1 to 4 ratio is a minimum btw) sounds like a solid carreer. Clearly there is a different expectation here vs a guy with 5000 hrs. These aren't poverty wages IMO...
Flying for a stable company, taking a stick to AC, equal travel benefits, full healthcare and support from mainline, flow thru, no double standard, new airplanes, mainline leadership. I really can't see the problem here because these guys are all playing in the same sandbox to promote growth and go wide body down the road. They will feel like they are contributing unlike jazz. Because they have something to gain as well. 80 percent median pay is a moot point.

Cost is king