Crash @ North Spirit Lake Ont (4 dead, 1 survivor)

[Donald]

It's been awhile, but the Janitrol would normally be off for landing because otherwise it would overtemp on the ground and trip the c/b without sufficient airflow. Unless it's very cold outside, then it can be run almost continously (-30 and colder for example).

[magic wand]

It's been awhile, but the Janitrol would normally be off for landing because otherwise it would overtemp on the ground and trip the c/b without sufficient airflow. Unless it's very cold outside, then it can be run almost continously (-30 and colder for example).

The janitrol has its own blower/fan when on the ground. There is a squat switch on the gear. Once the gear is retracted ram air
provides airflow.
The primary reason most operators have a SOP to shut the janitrol off prior to landing is to ensure that the burner can cools sufficiently
prior to the unit being turned off . If you dont plan a 2 min cool down you stand the chance of creating hotspots within the burner can.
(in the past, one would taxi to the ramp - heater on - and shut down with no cool down - creating problems ) We used to hold our hand to the air outlet until we felt cool air before shutting down.

If your janitrol is overtemping on the ground you best have it checked out. They are a finicky unit but when maintained they do work well.
The biggest problem is lack of maintenance!!

[helione]

maybe the safety switch was wired closed...seen that done before.......works just fine but .....

[cdnpilot77]

I don't think this has been posted yet, but if it has, my apologies. Names of the victims are all there.

From the Canadian press:

Pilot of deadly crash a new hire: official

NORTH SPIRIT LAKE, Ont. - A pilot who died along with three other people in a plane crash on a remote Ontario reserve was a new hire but had several years of experience in the air.

Fariborz Abasabady, 41, started at Keystone Airlines last summer, said George Riopka, an aviation consultant acting as a spokesman for the company.

Riopka said Thursday that Abasabady previously worked for two to three years as a flight instructor with Winnipeg Aviation.

He said the pilot had logged 2,400 flying hours — a considerable amount.

"All the employees at Keystone, both on the maintenance side and on the air operations, consider it a personal loss," Riopka said. "Grief counselling is being offered to all of them there."

He described Abasabady as a gentle, caring man with a "good attitude" about flying. He was married and lived in Lockport, just north of Winnipeg.

Abasabady was flying Keystone's Piper Chieftain, a nine-passenger twin-engine plane, when it crashed Tuesday on the North Spirit Lake reserve. The First Nation is located 400 kilometres north of Dryden, Ont., near the Manitoba boundary.

Witnesses said the plane was trying to land in a blizzard. Residents rushed to the crash site and desperately tried to put out the flaming wreckage with snow.

One person survived the crash. Brian Shead, 36, is an employee with Aboriginal Strategies Inc., an administrative service for First Nations in Winnipeg. He is recovering from broken bones in hospital.

Police also released the names of the other three victims. Ben van Hoek, 62, of Carmen, Man., was the president of Aboriginal Strategies; Colette Eisinger, 39, of Winnipeg worked as an accountant for the company; and Martha Campbell, 38 and also of Winnipeg, was a band worker for the North Spirit Lake First Nation.

The Transportation Safety Board is investigating the crash.

[Rudy]

When will we stop judging experience levels based on total time? It is relative experience that matters. I'm very thankful that I sat in the right seat for a long time before I was cut loose on my own in the North. He had a 2400 hours at a flying club that doesn't turn a prop unless it's at least 1000ft and 3sm and then suddenly he's "trying to land in a blizzard". I mean no disrespect to this deceased gentleman. He was trying to do a good job. For his passengers, and for his company. He had 150 hours not 2400 hours.

[slocombe]

Remove

[lilflyboy262]

When will we stop judging experience levels based on total time? It is relative experience that matters. I'm very thankful that I sat in the right seat for a long time before I was cut loose on my own in the North. He had a 2400 hours at a flying club that doesn't turn a prop unless it's at least 1000ft and 3sm and then suddenly he's "trying to land in a blizzard". I mean no disrespect to this deceased gentleman. He was trying to do a good job. For his passengers, and for his company. He had 150 hours not 2400 hours.

+1

[Doc]

When will we stop judging experience levels based on total time? It is relative experience that matters. I'm very thankful that I sat in the right seat for a long time before I was cut loose on my own in the North. He had a 2400 hours at a flying club that doesn't turn a prop unless it's at least 1000ft and 3sm and then suddenly he's "trying to land in a blizzard". I mean no disrespect to this deceased gentleman. He was trying to do a good job. For his passengers, and for his company. He had 150 hours not 2400 hours.

You are correct of course, but keep in mind, the comment was made by the media. 2400 hours is certainly enough "time" for a typical Navajo skipper. The media has no idea the real meaning of "time logged" and where. We do. Operators should. Keystone should. Obviously they just go with the "raw score" log book times as all been equal. If there had been 800 or so Norseman, Beaver or right seat time in a Navajo included in his total, we wouldn't be having this conversation......I'd hope.

[2R]

Anyone got a close up picture of the tail ?
One of the required items for FAA certification is not showing up on the TSB pictures.
And if the FAA certificate is invalid that would invalidate the TC airworthiness certificate.
Which is based on the FAA certificate.

[costermonger]

Anyone got a close up picture of the tail ?
One of the required items for FAA certification is not showing up on the TSB pictures.
And if the FAA certificate is invalid that would invalidate the TC airworthiness certificate.
Which is based on the FAA certificate.

Pre-accident, but a clearer picture of the tail http://www.airlinefan.com/airline-photo ... an/C-GOSU/

I'm curious what you're referring to. I can't figure it out with the pictures.

[Go Juice]

Beacon??

[Doc]

Anyone got a close up picture of the tail ?
One of the required items for FAA certification is not showing up on the TSB pictures.
And if the FAA certificate is invalid that would invalidate the TC airworthiness certificate.
Which is based on the FAA certificate.

You might just as well fill us in on what's missing...or we could play "pin the tail on the HO"

[Jack Klumpus]

CGOSU...Old Slow Uniform.

Man, I've snagged the shit outta that airlplane in the past.

[Edo]

Additional Media coverage

http://www.globalnational.com/GlobalNat ... s=dd#video

comments?

[Northern Flyer]

And we all know it could have been prevented. (Northern ops + Navajo crash + dead innocent passengers = NO accident)

I don't get it......
Have you been sniffing markers?

[Jastapilot]

This is my minimum altitude. It's just like every other minimum altitude. But this one is mine. If I bug it on my altimeter, it will save my life. My life is just like every other life. But this one is mine. I only have on life. If I descend below my minimum altitude, I may lose my life. I only have one life to lose. This is my minimum altitude. It's just like every other minimum altitude. But this one is mine..........
Until THIS gets through EVERYBODY'S thick skulls, these accidents will continue.
Are there any questions?

I LOVE that line. I'm gonna use it, k?

[Jastapilot]

OK, so it's been a while since I flew the Chieftain, but what's the average time to blow the AUX tanks when you forget to switch? It's bugging me because I think I had the crap scared out of me around the 2 hour mark in cruise.

If it had happened at low altitude, iced and on a low vis approach, not sure I'd have reacted favourably to a sudden unexpected loss of power at that moment.

I would say there was plenty of fuel in the tanks due to how intense the post crash fire was, yet that #1 prop sure does look feathered to me.


A separate question. Skyward had it's OC pulled for a lot less that the stuff Keystone has pulled over the years... and I read on this thread they're still flying? Really?

[Jastapilot]

Additional Media coverage

http://www.globalnational.com/GlobalNat ... s=dd#video

comments?

That prop looks VERY feathered in this video!

[flyinthebug]

Additional Media coverage

http://www.globalnational.com/GlobalNat ... s=dd#video

comments?

That prop looks VERY feathered in this video!

+1...It IS feathered!!

I also support Reeves call for 2 crew across the board (twins)! @#$! the extra revenue seat!

Fly safe all.

[ywg396]

FWIW... thirdhand from survivor:

"were circling around waiting for snowplow to clear rwy according to pilot. Decent vis underneath, ground contact, town airport etc... pax been flying up north for years and said he had seen much worse conditions in past.

Pilot announces to pax, plow is clear and we are going to land, aircraft turns "aggressively" towards runway.... next thing they are on the ground and he exits AC and then tries to pull other pax out. Unable to reach fire extinguisher in front of AC and one pax who was either not wearing a seatbelt, or seatbelt had failed had shifted forwarded during impact and pinned other 2 pax in AC.

Tried to fight fire with snow etc... until flames got too hot.

[Go Juice]

//inappropriate comment removed by Sulako. Smarten up.

[Go Juice]

Jastapilot: depending on power settings, 1:45, 1:50 is where i would switch one on the mains and keep burning for about 10-15 more mins. Then switch to main and re switch to aux on the other for 10-15 mins. I have blown thanks but this way never at the same time and never at low altitude.


Also, not a good idea to do this with pax as they see the fuel gauges very well in the ho.

[chesty]

For me it is automatic to check fuel before landing and it should be for everyone! You think that he would have made a radio call about the 1 engine thing! If he time to fether, he had time for that.

[Northern Flyer]

Additional Media coverage

http://www.globalnational.com/GlobalNat ... s=dd#video

comments?

That prop looks VERY feathered in this video!

+1...It IS feathered!!

I also support Reeves call for 2 crew across the board (twins)! @#$! the extra revenue seat!

Fly safe all.

IMHO two crew isn't going to make a difference in situations like this. Having a 200 hour wounder sitting next to you isn't going to necessarily make the world a safer place.

Good equipment, training, company attitude and line in doc is what will minimize the risk.

Single pilot is challenging flying for sure, add in northern ops, and bad weather and it can be a hand full but it is not rocket science.

There are a few rules a pilot must have to be safe and successful.

Know your aircraft and the emergency procedures. Test yourself daily.
Use due diligence checking weather and flight conditions. If it is beyond YOUR limits do not go.
Never compromise. A limit is a limit, turn around and go home. (This will be a non-issue at a decent employer, as long as you show what weather you had available to you when you departed, and that weather was acceptable.)

[Jastapilot]

Jastapilot: depending on power settings, 1:45, 1:50 is where i would switch one on the mains and keep burning for about 10-15 more mins. Then switch to main and re switch to aux on the other for 10-15 mins. I have blown thanks but this way never at the same time and never at low altitude.


Also, not a good idea to do this with pax as they see the fuel gauges very well in the ho.

Thanks, that's what I thought.

This guy had 150 hours at the company, and probably only 150 hours on the Chieftain. It would be an easy mistake to make. At 150 hours he might 'just' be getting comfortable operating the plane single pilot, and getting bogged down(task-wise) in IFR conditions and probably icing conditions...well, it's entirely plausible.
I assume you can't get fuel in North Spirit, so he had enough fuel to do both legs. So why did the prop feather?