As a Captain or a First Officer on a two crew airplane, what would you do if your other-seater, unprovoked, keyed the mic and said something really stupid and/or rude.
I was inbound to CYVR one busy morning, complete with flow control, when ATC had to first of all slow an airliner down and then give him vectors for traffic and sequencing. After issuing a heading for this jerk, his comment was "What - Are We Black or Something". I thought that was totally uncalled for and rude.
What would you do as a Captain. As a Frst Officer.
I would have suggested the Chief Pilot require the offender to write a letter of apology to the controller.
It was rude, totally uncalled for, and traffic was being handled in an efficient way.
I was embarrassed and I was just an innocent bystander.
Damn rude comments over the radio.
Moderators: North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, lilfssister, I WAS Birddog
Damn rude comments over the radio.
The average pilot, despite the somewhat swaggering exterior, is very much capable of such feelings as love, affection, intimacy and caring.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
These feelings just don't involve anyone else.
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smokin_rivet
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water wings
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lots of verbal diarhea on the radios... have been plagued by very annoying "noises" to say the least after pretty much every transmission i made one summer. It was kinda like being honked at by a passing car - annoying and won't get you anywhere unless you pull over and say something intelligent. I only hope that dude has a Capt or FO to tell him to grow up.
which isn't bloody likely... i mean insofar as the saying something intelligent part.
It's too bad that guy broadcast his stupidity over the YVR frequency...If it was someone i was flying with, i'd tell them to smarten up as soon as we got on the ground. No need for idiocy, that's TC's department.
which isn't bloody likely... i mean insofar as the saying something intelligent part.
It's too bad that guy broadcast his stupidity over the YVR frequency...If it was someone i was flying with, i'd tell them to smarten up as soon as we got on the ground. No need for idiocy, that's TC's department.
Hmmmm. Ask atc for the center phone number so the offender can make the call to apologize for his runaway mouth! I'm sure they'll be glad to give it to you. It puts the offender on the spot too! If he phones then all is resolved and if he doesn't have the courage then he looks like a complete a$$!! As PIC you're responsible and that includes r/t even if it's not you on the radio.
nite_owl wrote:Hmmmm. Ask atc for the center phone number so the offender can make the call to apologize for his runaway mouth! I'm sure they'll be glad to give it to you. It puts the offender on the spot too! If he phones then all is resolved and if he doesn't have the courage then he looks like a complete a$$!! As PIC you're responsible and that includes r/t even if it's not you on the radio.
'Oldtimer', I totaly agree with 'owl'...before taking it to the CP give your co-pilot the above option. (i.e. to make his own ammends!)
G
"Slow and steady wins the race"
The call and the letter are both excellent ideas. Pilots sometimes tend to take the controllers workload for granted. They're working with us not against us. If a guy is swamped then he's swamped! They can get behind in their screen like we can get behind in our airplanes...
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wallypilot
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along those lines, it is unbelievably worse in the US, if my recent experiences reflect what is going on down there. The number of times that pilots will chat on an ATF and not switch to some other freq blew me away. i am always diligent about switching freqs to have a conversation....also, a first for me was a pilot and a controller getting into an arguement because the pilot didn't want to go around when there was an aricraft on the runway. The pilot berated this poor controller in a really busy southern california airport simply because he had to put an extra .1 on the airframe. this guy was livid, and proceeded to tell the controller exactly what he thought of her, in no uncertain terms, meanwhile, there's a lear on final, saab 340 behind him, me in the caravan joining a 3 mile or so base, a couple of student pilots in the circuit......and that a$$hole trying to do a quick turn around to re-establish on final. and we are all trying to talk over this guy to get our sequences, landing clearances, etc. and for the record, I thought the controller was doing a fine job.
I find the most offending part the racism.
I'm sure the controller could care less about the commentary on his vectoring, but I feel for the other people listening on the frequency.
How would you feel if you were a person of another race listening at that moment in time?
Pretty disturbing, especially for Canada.
In my opinion the comment should be dealt with by calling the airline that this pilot flies for and filing a complaint, and in doing so, ask if it is their policy to degrade other races on public radio.
Also, call the tower and let them know that you're filing a complaint and ask if they can hold on to the tape. (I'm not sure if they are allowed to do that, but who knows).
I personally don't think it should be taken too lightly, but that is just my opinion.
I'm sure the controller could care less about the commentary on his vectoring, but I feel for the other people listening on the frequency.
How would you feel if you were a person of another race listening at that moment in time?
Pretty disturbing, especially for Canada.
In my opinion the comment should be dealt with by calling the airline that this pilot flies for and filing a complaint, and in doing so, ask if it is their policy to degrade other races on public radio.
Also, call the tower and let them know that you're filing a complaint and ask if they can hold on to the tape. (I'm not sure if they are allowed to do that, but who knows).
I personally don't think it should be taken too lightly, but that is just my opinion.
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Cat Driver
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Siddley Hawker
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Hun IN the SUN
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Cat Driver
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" Well Cat, I think canadians are better than that, especially living in a country with so many different races, i tought weve gotten past that BS "
I was not approving of the comment, I was only trying to point out that racism is a common trait in every culture.
For example do you think you would be the recepient of racism say in down town Bagdad Iraq or maybe Kingston Jamacia?
Forced multiculturalism as practiced by your Government just may not be all that bright an idea in the final outcome.
Cat
I was not approving of the comment, I was only trying to point out that racism is a common trait in every culture.
For example do you think you would be the recepient of racism say in down town Bagdad Iraq or maybe Kingston Jamacia?
Forced multiculturalism as practiced by your Government just may not be all that bright an idea in the final outcome.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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Cat Driver
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Bede :
One of the most frustrating traits that the population of any country can have is sheep like submission to tyranny through thought police.
Some years ago I lived for a short period of time with a people whom I found to have an attitude that I admired. It was the Tuareg's of the Sahara Desert, a nomatic people that recognize no political borders.
After much soul searching I can't decide if I'm a white Tuareg or just a mercenary at heart. In any event I have learned to take people for "who" they are not what skin colour or nationality they are.
Cat
One of the most frustrating traits that the population of any country can have is sheep like submission to tyranny through thought police.
Some years ago I lived for a short period of time with a people whom I found to have an attitude that I admired. It was the Tuareg's of the Sahara Desert, a nomatic people that recognize no political borders.
After much soul searching I can't decide if I'm a white Tuareg or just a mercenary at heart. In any event I have learned to take people for "who" they are not what skin colour or nationality they are.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
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scotothedoublet
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Good comment? BS. I believe strongly in multi-culturalism. As far as I'm concerned it is not a "forced" concept but a necessary one. Like it or not, Canada has been, and will continue to be built on immigrants. IMO tolerance should be "expected" in Canada.Forced multiculturalism as practiced by your Government just may not be all that bright an idea in the final outcome
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Cat Driver
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Quote:
" Good comment? BS. I believe strongly in multi-culturalism. "
I made a very benign comment, that merely questioned a forced policy by a Government who have a history of getting votes from their immigration policies, and you Scotothedoublet have the audicity to slam my opinion as B.S.
Is that attitude your vision of democracy Canadian style and acceptance of others and their opinions?
Attitudes such as yours makes me really glad I was not born in Canada.
Cat
" Good comment? BS. I believe strongly in multi-culturalism. "
I made a very benign comment, that merely questioned a forced policy by a Government who have a history of getting votes from their immigration policies, and you Scotothedoublet have the audicity to slam my opinion as B.S.
Is that attitude your vision of democracy Canadian style and acceptance of others and their opinions?
Attitudes such as yours makes me really glad I was not born in Canada.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Well it was my comment, so I guess I'll back it up.
Racism does exist everywhere. In many other countries people are not taught growing up about the evils of racism, by school, or parents. If they are it is often one sided.
In my experience many other nationalities feel that it is ok to degrade another race, and get upset when their own is degraded. This, again in my opinion is due to lack of education, parenting or otherwise.
I feel that Canada is better than this. Again an opinion, but at least on my part, I was raised by the education system, and parents, to be more sensitive than this. Clearly some are not, but I feel on a whole that the majority are.
That is the point of my statement. I wouldn't be surprised to here a comment like this in many countries across the world, I am surprised to see it in Canada, on public radio.
Racism does exist everywhere. In many other countries people are not taught growing up about the evils of racism, by school, or parents. If they are it is often one sided.
In my experience many other nationalities feel that it is ok to degrade another race, and get upset when their own is degraded. This, again in my opinion is due to lack of education, parenting or otherwise.
I feel that Canada is better than this. Again an opinion, but at least on my part, I was raised by the education system, and parents, to be more sensitive than this. Clearly some are not, but I feel on a whole that the majority are.
That is the point of my statement. I wouldn't be surprised to here a comment like this in many countries across the world, I am surprised to see it in Canada, on public radio.
Last edited by JigglyBus on Sun May 15, 2005 7:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Jaques Strappe
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ice ice baby
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not to defend the pilot who made that comment, but he may have felt he was been discrimanated against. Possibly he was just trying to illustrate an example of racism in a short concise phrase and in no way intending to offend anyone. I'm sure we've all said things about the controllers (and vice-versa for the controllers) in the cockpit with no intention of them ever hearing it.
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shitdisturber
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Cat Driver
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Hi Cat,
Unless I am miss understanding you, why do you choose to live here then?
I live here because my parents brought me to Canada when I was quite young, they and I became Canadian citizens and I hold a Canadian passport and having paid taxes to Canada all my life I have the right to live in Canada when and if I choose.
However being a Canadian citizen does not make it manditory to agree with some of the policies that the Governments from time to time impose on the citizens. Nor does it mean that I must be politically correct.
As an example of multi-culturalism one has to only examine the daily gangland executions and rampant drug dealing that seems to be controlled by members of our multiculture immigrants here in the rain forest on Canadas west coast.
That of course does not mean that every member of these cultures are undesireables, but it does seem to confirm that members of some cultures do control some of our crimminal elements.
And I also made the statement to see what kind of response I would get.
Go back and read my coments and note I stated that I did not approve of the comment made on the radio.
Unless I am miss understanding you, why do you choose to live here then?
I live here because my parents brought me to Canada when I was quite young, they and I became Canadian citizens and I hold a Canadian passport and having paid taxes to Canada all my life I have the right to live in Canada when and if I choose.
However being a Canadian citizen does not make it manditory to agree with some of the policies that the Governments from time to time impose on the citizens. Nor does it mean that I must be politically correct.
As an example of multi-culturalism one has to only examine the daily gangland executions and rampant drug dealing that seems to be controlled by members of our multiculture immigrants here in the rain forest on Canadas west coast.
That of course does not mean that every member of these cultures are undesireables, but it does seem to confirm that members of some cultures do control some of our crimminal elements.
And I also made the statement to see what kind of response I would get.
Go back and read my coments and note I stated that I did not approve of the comment made on the radio.
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Canada chose the 'multi-cultural' route, whereas the US intended a 'melting pot' approach to immigration. Both methods were rammed down our respective throats by the politicians - there were no referenda nor was a party elected solely on its approach to immigration - therefore whatever your attitude to immigration, Cat's comments are correct.
It fries my noodles that it is IMPOSSIBLE to talk about immigration in this country without some yahoo yelling "racism" if there is a dissenting opinion on 'immigration.' If anybody complains that immigration isn't really working all that well in some ways, some moron yells "racist." The ad hominem attack is a way to silence dissent, and it usually works because the majority of thinking Canadians are not racist and are frequently deflected from their contrary opinions lest they be thought of that way.
So attacking Cat for his observations on racism is a cheap shot.
Let's talk about aviation. Rude radio talk just points out that not only does the perpetrator not know his procedures (AIP etc.), he is profoundly unprofessional and parochial. Radio work is as critical as a/c handling, and done badly can lead to misunderstanding and accidents. In other parts of the world, using non-standard phraseology, if it is even understood, might get you violated or worse. If it was my operation, It would be obvious to me that not only is that pilot immature and certainly not ready for command, but I would seriously question the judgement of the captain too.
It fries my noodles that it is IMPOSSIBLE to talk about immigration in this country without some yahoo yelling "racism" if there is a dissenting opinion on 'immigration.' If anybody complains that immigration isn't really working all that well in some ways, some moron yells "racist." The ad hominem attack is a way to silence dissent, and it usually works because the majority of thinking Canadians are not racist and are frequently deflected from their contrary opinions lest they be thought of that way.
So attacking Cat for his observations on racism is a cheap shot.
Let's talk about aviation. Rude radio talk just points out that not only does the perpetrator not know his procedures (AIP etc.), he is profoundly unprofessional and parochial. Radio work is as critical as a/c handling, and done badly can lead to misunderstanding and accidents. In other parts of the world, using non-standard phraseology, if it is even understood, might get you violated or worse. If it was my operation, It would be obvious to me that not only is that pilot immature and certainly not ready for command, but I would seriously question the judgement of the captain too.
"What's it doing now?"
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
"Fly low and slow and throttle back in the turns."
