ABSOLUETLY reprehensible behaviour..........

[atpl53]

I don’t often RANT, and certainly not on AvCanada……but today is your lucky day.

I had to dead head this weekend and somebody at the office chose Air Canada. What an unmitigated disaster. The lack of customer care was not only appalling, it was borderline criminal.

Sun Feb 12, AC 922 ETD 2055 Gate F65 CYYZ/KMCO

2030 plane at the gate
2045 cabin crew arrives
it’s evident by this time we are not leaving on time (display board still shows on-time departure)
2100 no call to board AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2130 no call to board AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2200 cabin crew sneaks off down the protected hallway and disappears
2200 display board still shows on-time departure AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2205 gate agent disappears
2230 display board still shows on-time departure AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2245 gate agent reappears and informs us that flight has been cancelled SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!
2250 gate agent announces that you will NOT get a hotel voucher, and you ARE RESPONSIBLE TO CALL AIR CANADA AND MAKE YOUR OWN ARRANGEMENTS.

At this point I’m busy putting on my overcoat because 180 plus passengers are baying for blood and I’m sitting there in a pilot’s uniform.

The despicable part is that this same scenario had been played out the night before and most of these pax were a re-book. They were off on vacation; Disney, NASA, Cruises.
Me: I’m expected in MCO to pick up pax and return to YYZ.

Now………would you like to know the reason…………..

THE FLIGHT CREW FAILED TO MAKE IT THROUGH US CUSTOMS BEFORE THE 9PM CLOSING. (TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW………….)

IF I PULLED S**T LIKE THAT I’D BE LOOKING FOR WORK THE NEXT DAY.

Any support you might have received from me during your contract negotiations has gone out the window. I hope you get legislated back to work. You deserve it for STUPID stunts like this.

[Sulako]

Coincidentally I got hosed on an AC flight from MCO to YYZ a couple of months ago - but at least the flight was only delayed a few hours (with no formal announcement of the delay or any gate agents in sight until well after the scheduled departure time). I complained via Twitter and got an offer of a 15% discount on my next AC flight, a-woo-hoo!

[atpl53]

Coincidentally I got hosed on an AC flight from MCO to YYZ a couple of months ago - but at least the flight was only delayed a few hours (with no formal announcement of the delay or any gate agents in sight until well after the scheduled departure time). I complained via Twitter and got an offer of a 15% discount on my next AC flight, a-woo-hoo!

Twitter......???......I wrote to Lisa this morning with an accounting of this and told her to stick to her guns.

[yycflyguy]

I don’t often RANT, and certainly not on AvCanada……but today is your lucky day.

I had to dead head this weekend and somebody at the office chose Air Canada. What an unmitigated disaster. The lack of customer care was not only appalling, it was borderline criminal.

Sun Feb 12, AC 922 ETD 2055 Gate F65 CYYZ/KMCO

2030 plane at the gate
2045 cabin crew arrives
it’s evident by this time we are not leaving on time (display board still shows on-time departure)
2100 no call to board AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2130 no call to board AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2200 cabin crew sneaks off down the protected hallway and disappears
2200 display board still shows on-time departure AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2205 gate agent disappears
2230 display board still shows on-time departure AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2245 gate agent reappears and informs us that flight has been cancelled SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!
2250 gate agent announces that you will NOT get a hotel voucher, and you ARE RESPONSIBLE TO CALL AIR CANADA AND MAKE YOUR OWN ARRANGEMENTS.

At this point I’m busy putting on my overcoat because 180 plus passengers are baying for blood and I’m sitting there in a pilot’s uniform.

The despicable part is that this same scenario had been played out the night before and most of these pax were a re-book. They were off on vacation; Disney, NASA, Cruises.
Me: I’m expected in MCO to pick up pax and return to YYZ.

Now………would you like to know the reason…………..

THE FLIGHT CREW FAILED TO MAKE IT THROUGH US CUSTOMS BEFORE THE 9PM CLOSING. (TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW………….)

IF I PULLED S**T LIKE THAT I’D BE LOOKING FOR WORK THE NEXT DAY.

Any support you might have received from me during your contract negotiations has gone out the window. I hope you get legislated back to work. You deserve it for STUPID stunts like this.

Feel better? You don't actually think that the ONLY flight that the cabin/flight crew did that day was one, short flight to MCO do you?

Now let me put some actual facts into your post.

The original FIN was a A320. Max pax 146 not 180 like you say.
First flight (AC922) was cancelled due to what is being called US Customs IT constraints. Dunno what happened there
The renumbered flight (AC2122) was cancelled due to crew constraints. That means the crew dutied out and they probably tried to re-crew it with "fresh" crew! Should they have broken CARs and their contract to operate a flight after a full duty day? As a pilot I am sure I don't have to explain to you fatigue and duty day.

As someone in the industry I would expect a more open mind. How is it the crews fault that Customs closed if there were rolling delays all day and your flight got cancelled?

Sounds to me like the company should have more pilots. Something that we are trying to protect in our current negotiations. Thanks for your ill wishes towards your colleagues receiving a fair and equitable contract. Speaks volumes of character. Try directing all your negative energy towards where it belongs. Towards a corporation that is running an airline too thin.

As for keeping the pax informed of the delays and status. I agree 100% It is not always done or done properly. Not the crews fault though is it? Gate agents already have their contract.

BTW. The fact that the Air Canada pilots are currently conducting a strike vote and that the company is trying to force an industry changing WAWCON has been well reported in the media. Did operational interruptions cross your mind?

Now explain to all of us how exactly was this borderline criminal?

[HavaJava]

I agree that your situation was handled very poorly by the unskilled labour at Air Canada (gate agents, SOC, management). For that I am truly sorry. As yycflyguy pointed out, US customs and border services also played a role in your situation. I have heard of numerous examples over the past few weeks where they have had no consideration whatsoever for the vacation plans of entire planeloads of people.

However, please rethink your attacks on the pilots. They had absolutely nothing to do with the situation you are complaining about. The pilots were not even aware of how poorly you were treated and they definitely did not contribute to it.

[rapid602]

Wow, you guys are bitter.

To quote Larry Wingett
"Plan for the best, expect the worst and celebrate it all"

Delays seem to be part of aviation, when I arrive somewhat on time, I am happy, when my bags are there I am excited, and I thank god that I didn't have to drive.

Some of you work for airlines, and some of you ride on airlines, and your all right, but how do you change it. When you think of what happens in a day, the plane is at the gate, the mechanics have fixed it, the pax all show up, the fuel is on board, atc gets out in the air and on the ground. Its an amzing thing.

Shit happens, but how do well all make it better. I think in the last 10 years or so, we have all set our expectations to high, and we are disappointed by the lack of customer service out there by 9 AM and the rest of the day for a SH#T from there. I have had good flights on different airlines and some bad ones. BUT ... WE ALL HAVE A SAY, we speak with our money.
There are some airlines who are no longer around.

Vote with your money ... sooner or later someone in an office looking at the numbers of who flies where, will wonder why his passengers who used to fly with WE ARE GREAT AIRLINES, is flying with THEY ARE BETTER AIRLINES.

[yycflyguy]

Well, he DID spell reprehensible correctly... now we just have to work on ABSOLUTELY

[mel gibson]

This person cannot spell, because English is not their mother tongue, I suspect a foreign one.

[Fanblade]

Canada Customs is in contract talks. Like many other public service unions they are working to the letter at times. Are refusing overtime. Ect.

Pretty soon the entire country will be on a W2R campaign if this government continues to interfere in private and public sector negotiations.

[Doug Moore]

I don’t often RANT, and certainly not on AvCanada……but today is your lucky day.

I had to dead head this weekend and somebody at the office chose Air Canada. What an unmitigated disaster. The lack of customer care was not only appalling, it was borderline criminal.

Sun Feb 12, AC 922 ETD 2055 Gate F65 CYYZ/KMCO

2030 plane at the gate
2045 cabin crew arrives
it’s evident by this time we are not leaving on time (display board still shows on-time departure)
2100 no call to board AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2130 no call to board AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2200 cabin crew sneaks off down the protected hallway and disappears
2200 display board still shows on-time departure AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2205 gate agent disappears
2230 display board still shows on-time departure AND NO ANNOUNCEMENT OF DELAY
2245 gate agent reappears and informs us that flight has been cancelled SURPRISE!!!!!!!!!!!
2250 gate agent announces that you will NOT get a hotel voucher, and you ARE RESPONSIBLE TO CALL AIR CANADA AND MAKE YOUR OWN ARRANGEMENTS.

At this point I’m busy putting on my overcoat because 180 plus passengers are baying for blood and I’m sitting there in a pilot’s uniform.

The despicable part is that this same scenario had been played out the night before and most of these pax were a re-book. They were off on vacation; Disney, NASA, Cruises.
Me: I’m expected in MCO to pick up pax and return to YYZ.

Now………would you like to know the reason…………..

THE FLIGHT CREW FAILED TO MAKE IT THROUGH US CUSTOMS BEFORE THE 9PM CLOSING. (TWO NIGHTS IN A ROW………….)

IF I PULLED S**T LIKE THAT I’D BE LOOKING FOR WORK THE NEXT DAY.

Any support you might have received from me during your contract negotiations has gone out the window. I hope you get legislated back to work. You deserve it for STUPID stunts like this.

Sorry atpl53, I understand your anger and frustration in the circumstances you describe but I fail to grasp why you direct all of your fury at the pilots, particularly when you claim to be a pilot yourself.

Your insinuation seems to be that the pilots purposely waited for US Customs to close so that they could cause the delay/cancellation of your flight. I don’t know what happened (nor apparently do you) but I seriously doubt any malfeasance on the part of the pilots.

Was there a duty period problem with the originally scheduled pilots? I don’t know and neither, apparently, do you, but if there was a duty-period issue, do you have a problem with that? Or is it OK with you to disregard the CARs, the Contract or whatever, just so long as there is a warm body up front to get you to where you want to go, and safety be damned.

Has the airline, in its quest for cost reductions, reduced its pilot staff to the point where adequate reserve coverage is no longer possible? I don’t know the answer to that and neither do you, but if reserve coverage is a problem from time to time at the airline, whose fault is that? As a pilot yourself, surely you don’t think it is the pilot’s responsibility to ensure adequate reserve coverage – or do you?

There are many questions that could be asked – but you have asked none and simply chosen to dump all the blame at the feet of the pilots. Everybody needs somebody to blame and I suppose the days are long gone when one might expect at least some understanding of an operational difficulty from a fellow pilot.

I am definitely with you if the lack of information flow from the airline on the delay and ultimate cancellation of your flight was/is as you described it. That was unacceptable – and from a job performance assessment – represented a failing grade. But you blame the pilots, whose job description does not include attending the boarding gate to make passenger announcements.

Based on the tone and content of your (self-described) rant above, it would appear that any support the pilots might have received from you in their current contract negotiations could at best be described as tentative, with any single disappointment (such as the one you described) being sufficient to cause you to withdraw said support. Such support from a fellow pilot is better described as “lip service” – i.e.; with us for the good times but gone when things aren’t going your way. You say that you hope that the pilots get legislated back to work. I shudder to contemplate what else you might be hoping for your fellow pilots.

However, having said all of the above, I hope that you were just angry and wanted to vent. In other words, you’re human just like the rest of us - and at some time or other we’re all guilty of “shooting from the lip”.

Our profession is being attacked from all sides; from the small operator whose work environment is one of “do the flight or get fired”, to the major carriers where there is a frontal attack on wages, benefits and working conditions; all the while the Suits are lining their own pockets with as much gold as they can.

Our profession will only survive if we pilots can learn to stick together and speak with one voice. Kicking sand in each other’s faces (be it deserved or not) only serves to weaken our future. Let’s save the kicking sand part for when we are in our own sandbox and not out here in public for the whole world to see.

[watermeth]

all of this doesn't justify nor excuses poor "customer service" practices.
Customers don't care about the WAWCON at stake and all the backstage fighting to keep your salary and working conditions as is.
However it's easily understandable that all employees at AC are very disappointed and morale is low BUT - (that's not what I wish, and I hope the pilots group will be able to defend the new contract) - this kind of failure is paving a golden bridge for WJ, WestProp and its oceanic ops.

[Rockie]

However it's easily understandable that all employees at AC are very disappointed and morale is low BUT - (that's not what I wish, and I hope the pilots group will be able to defend the new contract) - this kind of failure is paving a golden bridge for WJ, WestProp and its oceanic ops.

To be absolutely clear this is a corporate policy problem...NOT an employee problem. Blaming employees who have zero power to change policy and in fact almost no authority to make decisions even within their own very local area is shooting the wrong target.

Send your complaints to Calin Rovinescu and ask him why his employees are unable to provide the kind of customer service they deserve when things go wrong.

[watermeth]

Rockie, why do you get so emotional ? I wasn't blaming employees, just sayin' that culture presently at AC doesn't help.

who will your customers blame ? do they care about your policies ?
an employee have the power to take the mic and explain to those passengers what's going on with AC922.
from the minute nobody gives a @#$! about it, you're done. because YOU are the company, you will live and die by the company. whatever your policies are. if you can't act around or against policies in such a situation then that's complacency or this I-don't-give-a-shit attitude surrounding AC today because workforce is disgusted.
that's not a good reason for scuttling.

for the record I worked on the ramp and in the baggage room for AC many many years ago, gotto be in touch with some CSR too and you can be sure I know pretty well what everybody thinks over there. there's not just victims out there... i also know what happens when something unexpected pops up 5 minutes before shift's end... I just hope pilots have a different mindset but they won't have enough leverage should the boat sink.

good luck.

[Rockie]

Rockie, why do you get so emotional ?

What makes you think I was being emotional? I was simply stating the facts as they exist.

an employee have the power to take the mic and explain to those passengers what's going on with AC922.

No, they don't. They have the power to explain what SOC (system operations center) or STOC (station operations center) tells them is going on, and in this case they apparently weren't told and therefore couldn't say anything that wasn't made up BS. Air Canada front line employees want to do their jobs. They don't like inconveniencing passengers or leaving them in the dark when things go wrong, but they have to know what to tell them.

Suffice to say everybody who actually deals with the passengers wants to do what's right for them whether the passengers realize it or not, but corporate policy and a micro-management culture often times prevents them. Policy and employee empowerment can only flow from the top, hence my suggestion to ask the CEO why everything went so wrong the other night. Personally I try very hard to never get mad at the person who is only following policies that they had no hand in making nor power to change.

[kevind]

Lots of pilots/cabin crew could do a better customer service job (oh pet peeve..I am a customer not a guest... i dont charge my guests when they visit me)..they forget who pays the bills at times. And its small stuff that makes the difference

My experience, with an american airline flying in to YYC. I got off the plane with my kids and 1/2 way to customs, realized I left my camera under the seat. I turned around and ran into the flight/cabin crew. Unfortunalty it was after the door that locked the hallway and would not let us back to the plane. Granted, there was nothing they could do at that point, but the crew basicly told me that sucks. Good Luck.

Simple thing to say.. Hey I will stop by the ?????? and ask if they can get to the plane for you. Whats your number/name. I will give it to gate agent or who ever.

In my job, if a problem that is not mine drops on my desk, I am expected to ensure that it gets to correct person and then follow up with customer.

Anyway..after customs I went to airline counter and after a few people found a person who would help. And the next day my camera was returned...

Story turned out good, but what do I remember, the professional flight crew who's answer to a customer problem was "That Sucks...Good Luck"

Some employees get it, some don't. The customer pays the bills. Just be honest and do what you can. If it is nothing, then say that. Will I fly that airline again, probly not.

[B_Boomer_54]

IMO,

The Air Canada babies can defend their little failed monopoly all they want. The situation brought forth by the original poster is nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to Canada's sleaziest airline. Treat customers like that in any other industry/sector and you would be shafted. Bottom line, unacceptable. The fact that they didn't even have the courtesy to tell a fellow industry professional goes to show what their culture/priorities are.

Pathetic, and not surprising.

[tailgunner]

B Boomer54,
Sorry you got pfo'd.. You are still a hero in my books though.
Cheers.
P.s. Jesus loves you.., but the rest of us think you are an a$$hole.

[BverLuver]

Boomer oh Boomer your narcissistic tendencies are showing their true colours tonight. To paraphrase your words, the gate agents screwed up because they didn't first make an announcement asking if there were any pilots waiting to board so they could get the inside scoop of what was happening. He was a passenger just like everyone else and should be treated as such. Say what you want about AC, but there is a reason they consistently get voted as the top airline in North America. Some people are just impossible to please Boomer and I am quite certain, after reading through most of your posts, you are one of them. Not a positive thought in sight. Have a nice night, maybe one day you will come down out of the castle and join the common peaseants in the village if even just for a night.

BTW, the OP, way off base blaming the pilots or the gate agents. Someone that flies transborder flights with any regularity or comon sense should be able to see this as clear as day.

[HavaJava]

To be fair to the OP, I think SOC should have posted a reasonable delay on the board and the gate agents should have done their best to be empathetic and keep people informed even if they only had limited knowledge of the big picture. People are understandably going to be pissed if their flight is cancelled but ignoring them never helps.

[DeltaHotel]

B Bomber is right ...
I usually avoid Air Canada like the plague. It's obvious that they're not in the business of caring for passengers ... More a livestock relocation airline.

There's no doubt in my mind that Air Canda has no interest in customer satisfaction at the end of the day.

Now, AC pilots on here shouldn't feel targeted as this is a customer service issue and flight deck crews have very little impact on customer satisfaction aside from providing safe and efficient flight.

[Old fella]

From my own prospective and in close to 50 years flying as a passenger, I have never experienced rude/unprofessional behavior directed towards me from any airline employee on any Canadian carrier and I have flown on a good many.

What I have experienced and directed towards me was over the top antics from ill mannered/rude/obnoxious fellow passengers.

[yycflyguy]

B Bomber is right ...
I usually avoid Air Canada like the plague. It's obvious that they're not in the business of caring for passengers ... More a livestock relocation airline.

There's no doubt in my mind that Air Canda has no interest in customer satisfaction at the end of the day.

Now, AC pilots on here shouldn't feel targeted as this is a customer service issue and flight deck crews have very little impact on customer satisfaction aside from providing safe and efficient flight.

Geez, and I have been giving away all those free hugs to passengers on my flight.

[WF9F]

What is reprehensible is companies like Canjet and Sunwing hiring Foreign pilots to fly for them simply to save some training costs and not hire Canadian pilots.!!!

[Sea2Sky]

Any support you might have received from me during your contract negotiations has gone out the window. I hope you get legislated back to work. You deserve it for STUPID stunts like this.

It policy for most airlines not to publish delays that will depart after customs closing. This is because passengers dawdle and then blame the airline for not getting through security on time. Why they didn't publish anything after 9pm is above my paygrade, but perhaps you should complain to the corporation about that.

What is shocking is that you think any pilot would "pull a stunt" by purposely delaying a check-in. The blame for this falls squarely on the corporation for 1) putting together a duty plan that didn't work; and 2) not hiring enough pilots. I might expect this kind of uncontrolled (and MISDIRECTED) rage from Joe Public who doesn't know any better, but you clearly don't know much about airline operations, either.

FYI, pilots have been escorted around in taxis, vans, and security vehicles just to make it to gates after hours. Your idiotic letter to Raitt has only served to support the people directly responsible for your misconnect, and subsequent misplaced snivelling. Well done. YOU are your own worst enemy

[yycflyguy]

What is reprehensible is companies like Canjet and Sunwing hiring Foreign pilots to fly for them simply to save some training costs and not hire Canadian pilots.!!!

FWIW, ACPA is lobbying the government to change it.

First they came for the communists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a communist.

Then they came for the trade unionists,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew.

Then they came for me
and there was no one left to speak out for me.