ABSOLUETLY reprehensible behaviour..........

[bandaid]

My wife flies a lot for business and avoids AC like dog poop. After being left to fend for herself at Newark Airport she vows to never fly AC again if she has control. Her Air Canada mantra is "Air Canada is not happy until you are not happy".

[yycflyguy]

My wife flies a lot for business and avoids AC like dog poop. After being left to fend for herself at Newark Airport she vows to never fly AC again if she has control. Her Air Canada mantra is "Air Canada is not happy until you are not happy".

Not just her mantra but the corporate mantra towards their employees.

[B_Boomer_54]

B Boomer54,
P.s. Jesus loves you.., but the rest of us think you are an a$$hole.

Mission accomplished

Boomer oh Boomer your narcissistic tendencies are showing their true colours tonight. To paraphrase your words, the gate agents screwed up because they didn't first make an announcement asking if there were any pilots waiting to board so they could get the inside scoop of what was happening. He was a passenger just like everyone else and should be treated as such. Say what you want about AC, but there is a reason they consistently get voted as the top airline in North America. Some people are just impossible to please Boomer and I am quite certain, after reading through most of your posts, you are one of them. Not a positive thought in sight. Have a nice night, maybe one day you will come down out of the castle and join the common peaseants in the village if even just for a night.

BTW, the OP, way off base blaming the pilots or the gate agents. Someone that flies transborder flights with any regularity or comon sense should be able to see this as clear as day.

Your magical powers are fascinating. Can you please teach me how to psychoanalyze people through an internet forum after reading one particular post where they express their contempt for Canada's most pathetic airline? You're lucky I am in a decent mood. I have decided to go out of my way and assist you in the comprehension and use of the English language. Errors here and there are forgivable, but my oh my

Narcissistic (in which the individual is described as being excessively preoccupied with issues of personal adequacy, power, prestige and vanity.[2] Narcissistic personality disorder is closely linked to egocentrism. )

Please see to it that you get a basic understand of the following word as it does in fact apply to you. You have no real idea what my experiences are when it comes to Air Canada. Throwing out words like narcissistic is a bit over the top.

Ignorance (or witlessness) is a state of being uninformed (lack of knowledge).

You see, personal experience generally influences the way people think or feel. If I had recurrent rather excellent experiences with this airline, chances are I would utilize their services again. According to you, it is possible that I had the best experiences with Air Canada on my ventures and in turn decided to bitch online for some sick twisted reason to somehow contradict how I actually feel. What is wrong with you? I would tone down that thinking process.

So he was a passenger like everyone else and therefore deserves to be screwed like everyone else . Got it. You know, if I see on my manifest/screen that we have a few jumpers, I will always do what I can to make their trip as smooth as possible. I would expect similar treatment. The fact we have people like you who defend such ass backwards philosophies... nothing more to say. Do you work for the mighty AC? Oh, and best airline in North America consistently? Who votes? The people abandoned @ 2300 or the corporate asshole whose riding a $4000 seat paid for by his generous company? Would love to see the "real" results of these polls. Every airline seems to have something to brag about.

At least Porter and Westjet have something to show for it. Every airline has their fair share of irops but this is just one of many horror stories as of late. Defense of such practices just hurts your argument. Well done champ.

[aroundthewing]

I agree it was handled improperly! Even poorly!
Gate agent must've have known something?? Why just leave? That part I just don't understand.

Hey Boomer...you impartial to WestJet? Just wondering!
And thanks for dictionary quotes! Really helped me!

[BverLuver]

Can you please teach me how to psychoanalyze people through an internet forum after reading one particular post where they express their contempt for Canada's most pathetic airline?

I, and everyone else on the boards, can read through every post you have made and see what kind of person you are through your posts, yours read like a post card...call it avcanada 101 as obviously you need a tutorial.

As for the rest of your post...its all gibberish and pointless ranting with no fact and just outright contempt. As another poster said, I am sorry you got your PFO but applicants are welcome to apply again in 6 months. I know you will so good luck.

[B_Boomer_54]

Glad you like them. So in a nutshell, nobody is ever allowed to criticize this miserable excuse of an airline because if and when they do, it is a)gibberish b) pointless ranting c) no fact even if it is COUNTLESS personal experiences!, and d) filled with contempt. Why don't people hole much respect for said airline again? I would start by accepting criticism, shutting your mouth, and treating your customers like people instead of cargo.

You would have people believe that I had great experiences with Air Canada yet I am a sadist and hate them for unknown reasons. Tad bit ass backwards. What more can we expect from an Air Canada puppet. Also, you somehow assumed I am a wannabe looking to join your heroic ranks. Your attitude and lack of accountability on some of the most basic elements of customer service in the airline business is of no surprise to me or any other user as you continuously remind people why they should take their business elsewhere. Your posts are excellent reminders why thousands avoid you everyday.

Back on that topic of ignorance, you somehow know who I have applied to! AvCanada 101, are you mental?

Never will I submit or represent such a dim witted points club. If I won't fly them , I sure as hell would never work for them. I honestly do not expect you to understand any form of criticism, from myself or the original poster or any individual for that matter, as I can tell you come from the same mentally diluted group who fail to grasp business in the 21st century.

As for being Westjet spokesperson , no sir. Though I would fly Westjet before Air Canada.

Let's make a bet, whose going to strike next?

[BverLuver]

Wouldn't it shock you to know that I do not fly for Big Red? never have. In fact I actually fly for competition. I have never had a single issue with AC beyond simple flight delays for wx and a few times for maint, but I am a reasonable person with reasonable expectations. Clearly this cannot be said for yourself. I continue to book AC over any other service whenever possible while traveling with my family so guess what, I am one of those "real votes" you seem to think do not exist. But what does it matter what I say? I am not an AC hater like yourself, so my opinion and my experiences are clearly unacceptable and inadmissible into an argument with you.

[yycflyguy]

Fight, fight, fight!!

[B_Boomer_54]

Wouldn't it shock you to know that I do not fly for Big Red? never have. In fact I actually fly for competition. I have never had a single issue with AC beyond simple flight delays for wx and a few times for maint, but I am a reasonable person with reasonable expectations. Clearly this cannot be said for yourself. I continue to book AC over any other service whenever possible while traveling with my family so guess what, I am one of those "real votes" you seem to think do not exist. But what does it matter what I say? I am not an AC hater like yourself, so my opinion and my experiences are clearly unacceptable and inadmissible into an argument with you.

So whose going to strike next?

Anything I stated minus "joining Air Canada's ranks" can still be applied directly to you as it is evident that you cannot comprehend and critical point from the original user or multiple other users for that matter. At this point, I could care less who you fly for and I didn't really care until you started jousting me in defence of your beloved national carrier. You still endorse the behaviour and create an excuse for it. The original poster was treated like a piece of livestock. I say again that it is because of attitudes like this that people are avoiding Canada's "best" airline.

Let's talk again after they screw you (matter of time). Like I said earlier, I can tell you come from the same mentally diluted group who fail to grasp business in the 21st century. I take that it's alright to overbook an RJ by 20 seats as well during the busiest times of the year? Screw it if people don't make it home for xmas, their daughters birthday, their anniversary , and so on. It doesn't matter if you paid a higher fare price, bottom line, passengers problem! I hope you have a similar experience as atpl53. I will then expect you to revive this thread and voice how much you endorse being shafted at 2300 when you have a flt to operate the following day.

[170 to xray]

Allow me to shed some light on the OP's situation. He works for a company that is incredibly understaffed. There aren't enough pilots to cover the number of aircraft and the pilots are forced to airline to and from airplanes to start/finish a trip. The working environment at this company has become very hostile as of late. If he doesn't make this flight....well, it doesn't help what is becoming a strained relationship between pilots and management. I could go on but I hope you get the picture.

My guess.....you have a guy who hasn't had a scheduled day off since who knows when, with no change only empty promises in sight trying to do his job.

He's pissed off and wanted to vent. Misdirected anger, I doubt he really blames the crew. imho

[Sea2Sky]

it is evident that you cannot comprehend and critical point from the original user

No, YOU'VE missed the point, "champ". The OP blames the flight crew for an oversight in Ops. Please explain to me the point of supporting the management group who are responsible for his dissatisfaction by hoping fellow pilots get screwed? Enlighten us.

[Ah_yeah]

Posting the delay Can't be done until after 9pm. Here's why: US customs closes at 9pm or a few minutes prior in some cases. Doors locked, poor you if you're on the other side. Uniform means jack squat. You ain't getting through. Air Canada may know of the delay before but cannot post it otherwise passengers will delay their arrival at US customs and be SOL. The GTAA controls the sign boards not AC.
As for short staffing the airline ? Talk the management team whose only success has been to strip mine the company to pay themselves absurd sums of money. Pilots can't break CARs. If you were a pro you'd know that Mr. atpl
I truly feel bad for the rest of the people that got shafted that night. I hope they are compensated fairly. The vast majority of AC employees care deeply and wish for nothing more than to rid themselves of the Madoffs running the company.

[WestCoastPilot]

Is it just me, or couldn't crew scheduling have pulled an A320 flight crew doing a YHZ/YUL/YWG/YYC/YVR/YEG late night flight and assigned them to the MCO one. As the crew would have already been at YYZ for their trip, this would have avoided the reserve callout and the 9pm customs closure. Then, the reservists could have covered whatever domestic flight was open.

[yycflyguy]

Is it just me, or couldn't crew scheduling have pulled an A320 flight crew doing a YHZ/YUL/YWG/YYC/YVR/YEG late night flight and assigned them to the MCO one. As the crew would have already been at YYZ for their trip, this would have avoided the reserve callout and the 9pm customs closure. Then, the reservists could have covered whatever domestic flight was open.

Our reserve coverage is brutally thin. Thanks to this management. Pretty rare that guys haven't already been working for 10-12 hours by 9pm. Even guys that have done a YYZ-YYC turn have put in over 10 hours.

There obviously weren't any crews that weren't already dutied out or were available.

[atpl53]

Yycflyguy

I assume by your tone that you work for Air Canada. I find your responses to be indicative of my observations of YOUR company.

I don’t recall posting anything ‘personal’ toward you at any time in my original post. I don’t even know you. Yet you have proceeded to talk about me as though I am some half-wit. Your condescending tone and your superior nature ARE the essence of Air Canada today.

While I appreciate the “actual facts” which you posted (after all….being beset upon by 146 angry passengers is a far cry better than 180 plus) you then proceeded to reduce me to some form of idiot because of a spelling error. I am then further reduced to being “foreign”. HavaJava then goes on to refer to YOUR fellow workers as “unskilled”

What I should have set about explaining from the beginning, is that while standing in the crew line waiting to go through security, the Air Canada FLIGHT crew standing behind me was having a discussion of how they were, ”not in a hurry…we’re just working at slowin’ things down….show those management bastards what they’ll be dealing with”

Now combine that with the announcement that, “the FLIGHT crew were unable to get through security on time.” (REMEMBER…..2055 departure…not show time)

You tell me, what reasonable conclusion was there left to draw?

While I am big enough to acknowledge that my anger was/is misplaced, in my end of the business, when OPS screws up I’M THE GUY WHO HEARS ABOUT IT FROM THE PAX. When maintenance screws up I’M THE GUY WHO HEARS ABOUT IT FROM THE PAX. When the FBO crews up I’M THE GUY WHO HEARS ABOUT IT FROM THE PAX. When ATC issues a ground stop I’M THE GUY WHO HEARS ABOUT IT FROM THE PAX.

Catch my drift.

And this much I can promise you. YOU, YOUR COMPANY, screwed up.

Your cushy 10 hour day. Do you know what YOU put me through? I was already working on a 12 hour day. By the time I got to the hotel (which my company now had to pay for, NOT REIMBURSED BY YOU), checked in, it’s now a 15 hour day. A phone call at 0200 informing me that we had a 0900 flight out to FLL where we would rent a car (which my company now had to pay for, NOT REIMBURSED BY YOU), and drive the 4 hours back up to Orlando, prep a plane and then fly back to YYZ. And before everyone out there starts bitching about CARS, under a POC the CBAA has deemed it OK to suspend all duty day requirements.

Have I upset you. I HOPE SO, because in my end of the business I AM THE FACE OF MY COMPANY. THE BUCK STOPS RIGHT HERE. My job then becomes one of; How do we do this better? How do we not let this happen again? How do I KEEP this CUSTOMER from going somewhere else?

If even once I had read this in any of the responses here I might have been more inclined to be repentant. I AM NOT.

[atpl53]

P.S.
I intend to leave the typo in the title to remind me to NEVER judge a book by it's cover, NEVER judge a poster by their spelling, and NEVER judge the character of a pilot by the uniform which they wear.

Dan

[yycflyguy]

atpl53:

For some reason, you seem to think that your inconvenience is somehow more justified because you are in the industry and therefore special. Your tirade about customer service is comical suggesting that no pilot at AC has done the exact same job as you. Flying corporate CE650s? Been there done that, got the t-shirt. Thanks. Multiple posters have explained to you that customs closes at 9. The crew operating YOUR flight was not just starting work. Do you know what time or where they started? Nope, didn't think so.

If you look at my first post, I agreed that the gate agent should have explained the delay. Hope you included that in your nasty-gram. Good spelling and grammar on your second post though!!

Sorry you had a bad experience. Next time you are on AC I will personally find you at the gate (my guess is you'll be the guy in a pilot uniform) and give you a nice, non-erogenous man hug. Ok? Let's be friends.

BTW. You might want to edit your post as you broke CARs and if TC is reading this they might just investigate how you operated without proper rest. You did not get your 8 hours prone rest. Shows where your standards are though. If you had an incident you would be in front of a judge to explain how your duty rest was interrupted and had two back-to-back 15 hour days. If I was your passenger I would be furious that you jeopardized my safety.

Your cushy 10 hour day. Do you know what YOU put me through? I was already working on a 12 hour day. By the time I got to the hotel (which my company now had to pay for, NOT REIMBURSED BY YOU), checked in, it’s now a 15 hour day. A phone call at 0200 informing me that we had a 0900 flight out to FLL where we would rent a car (which my company now had to pay for, NOT REIMBURSED BY YOU), and drive the 4 hours back up to Orlando, prep a plane and then fly back to YYZ. And before everyone out there starts bitching about CARS, under a POC the CBAA has deemed it OK to suspend all duty day requirements.

Thanks for the input. Always good to hear from another professional.

[disco]

atpl53

1) You don't respect the regs. What are we to assume about you and your overall professionalism? Is that endorsed at your incredibly professional operation?

2) You don't respect another pilot group bargaining for their profession and their families. In fact you wish harm for them. Reprehensible.

3) You may have rage issues to some extent.

4) You can't spell and you aren't garnering any respect here. Save it

The moment you wish ill for another professional pilot (or 3100 of them) your words carry no further value with me.

[Inceptive]

atpl53,

Say you chose to excercise your 8 hours of legally required rest, and your flight out of MCO was then severely delayed or cancelled..
Should your customers be mad and rant about how you (the pilot) are not there, and how dare you (the pilot) not make it on time?
Wouldn't fit your situation at all, would it?
Those pilots who did not make it through customs were probably on a short turn which did not workout. This is a SCHEDULING PROBLEM, NOT A PILOT PROBLEM.
What happened at the gate is unacceptable, however directing your anger at the pilots is very questionable.
P.S. If I see a pilot in uniform while I'm boarding, I'll take the time to offer a jump seat. If the wheels fall off the bus, I'm speaking to passengers, not those in uniform who should know their way around the system! If passengers are bothering you, may I also recommend not travelling in your uniform since you are not flying the aircraft!

[Flying Nutcracker]

Insert sound of popping popcorn and the beer-pop!

[marquisman]

I am a westjet pilot who commutes out of Deer Lake, that should tell you i'm not too bright, I use air Canada 6 months out of the year and have i been delayed sure, but I will say i have always been treated almost like one of there own. I was working a westjet flight last summer and the csa saw me, First thing she said was oh my god, i don't see you listed, she was genuinely worried i wasn't on the list, No problem with customer service out of there at all, my 2 cents

[Sulako]

...And before everyone out there starts bitching about CARS, under a POC the CBAA has deemed it OK to suspend all duty day requirements.

That is not accurate. Under POC you still need to go by the fatigue management rules, which are coincidentally identical to CAR's duty day requirements. Just sayin'

[SeaBat]

Do you know what YOU put me through? I was already working on a 12 hour day. By the time I got to the hotel (which my company now had to pay for, NOT REIMBURSED BY YOU), checked in, it’s now a 15 hour day...

Hey! Wasn't I married to you once?

This little statement says it all - me, me, me. I'm not even certain that he's a real pilot. One with a job anyways.

[Ecam Actions]

aptl53

As one of the crew that was to operate flight 2122 on Sunday night here's what happened.

We were on day 2 of our 3 day pairing. We were running about 1:20 late, due to the inbound
aircraft at our US departure city having to de-ice in YYZ that morning.
Our ETA for YYZ was now 20:20. Which still would have given us enough time to
clear US customs before they shut the doors at 9pm. The FO and I had already discussed that we would
clear customs first. He would go to the aircraft get things started and I would get the flight plan from
our office on the trans boarder side. As fate would have it there were delays
going into YYZ. We had to hold. Finally arrived at the gate in YYZ at 20:43.
We parked at gate 145. Do you have any idea how far that is?. We both did our best to try and make to US customs.
Unfortunately by the time we got there the doors were closed. It was no more that just a
few minutes after nine. We did NOT take our time trying to slow up the operation.

We stood at those doors until 22:45 hoping that someone would come. Many phone calls
were made to crew sked, stoc. soc, and gtaa security. We even stopped 2 Canada customs officers who
were walking past and asked if they could help. One of them got on there cell and right away
called their supervisor, who called over to the US customs office, with no luck
They even tried calling US customs at Terminal 3 to see if they would send someone over.
No luck. I know for a fact that SOC and Crew Sked were doing everything they could. Like I said many calls were made
and many people were trying. Finally after all avenues were exhausted SOC made the decision to cancel the flight.
This decision was not taken lightly. Don't think for a minute that we were not thinking about the passengers.
You have no idea what was going on to try and get that flight on its way.

Truth of the matter is US customs calls the shots and there's not a DAM thing anyone of us can do about it.

As for the lack of info at the gate, I'm sorry. Though, I must say that I find it a little hard to
believe that nothing was said until you were told that the flight had been cancelled. I was called at 22:45
and told about it. Your telling us that you stood at the gate for almost 2 hours from departure time and no one
said thing. No announcements, no agents, nothing. I know for a fact that's NOT TRUE.

Do you think that maybe you played things up just a bit in your post.

You, worrying about the cost of a hotel room for the night and car rental, are you for real!!!. You forgot to tell us about the extra crew allowance that
your airline had to pay you. What do you do when it snows, start worrying about the cost
of de-icing. As for the problems/money that this caused you company, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Any airline that does not respect a flight crews rest period and duty day is not much of an outfit to work for. Sounds to me like you should be
worrying about the safety of that airline you work for.

[Mechanic787]

Your truth, my truth, and the truth.