AVCANADA

Since the PW F117 engine was the derivative of the civil PW2000 engine chosen to power the C 17 I fail to see your point...........

I guess you have forgotten the used CF-101 Voodoos we got from the US. Before your time.

BTW, you very clearly think I'm stupid compared to you. I accept your rhetoric. What did you net last year? Since I am stupid, you obviously cleared more than I did.

Was there even a competition? Or did the government just bend over in return for some other back door deal?

If buying used hardware is such a great idea we would have done that already. Who cares about our pilots right? Let them fly the things until they break apart in the air, just so we can "save" a few bucks. The CF-18 is almost done, the wings are cracking and you can only stuff so much upgraded avionics in it.

Overhauling and custom tailoring them to our needs in Canada using Canadian Technology (we have the companies by the way), buying the licenses if needed and then putting them into service.

and the ability to produce our own spares as required as well as continue to maintain and overhaul.

As well as rebuilding an important industry and technology.

This looks like a pretty serious discussion...not sure if anyone has posted this yet, but:

http://www.youtube.com/user/MercerRepor ... Gr5maEz5WI

Was there even a competition? Or did the government just bend over in return for some other back door deal?

You're right - it's not even worth doing a comparison, because we all know russian stuff is all junk. This is why whenever a western astronaut wants to go into space, he has to ride a russian rocket.

If we agree with your opinion that all russian stuff is junk, why would we need a good airplane anyways?

Australia has re tubbed (main structure) and re winged it's F-18As

We need a heck of alot more than 65 fighters...double, triple that number.

http://www.youtube.com/user/MercerReport?feature=gb_p13n_ch_rec#p/u/32/lGr5maEz5WI

Which will eventually be replaced by the F-35. Sound familiar? We already replaced the centre barrel on ours.

So you want to throw away money by keeping and old-ass fighter jet in the air for decades, but in the next post you want to spend double, triple to acquire more F35's.

Simple jokes, for a simple crowd.

Wrong

I don't thinkTom H said anything about buying triple the number of proposed F35s - he said double or triple the proposed 65 fighters, and his argument was that achieving this would be much easier with a lower unit cost per aircraft, i.e. no F35s at all but rather by moving to F15s, F18s and F18E Super Hornets.

Are they jokes? Or is it the P/O you're referring to?

We never had center barrel replacements, our wings don't crack? What?

So having an old fleet of used F15s (which are also having fatigue issues with age), F18's, and Supers will cost less to maintain, fly, have a parts support network, train people for three different types, than it will having a fleet of NEW 65-80 F35's.

Guess you didn't read this part, or ignored it...
Quote:
Overhauling and custom tailoring them to our needs in Canada using Canadian Technology (we have the companies by the way), buying the licenses if needed and then putting them into service.

and these parts
Quote:
and the ability to produce our own spares as required as well as continue to maintain and overhaul.

Quote:
As well as rebuilding an important industry and technology.


Australia has re tubbed (main structure) and re winged it's F-18As effectively producing a new aircraft while keeping the jobs and dollars to the largest extent in Australia.

There is no reason we could not do the same thing and upgrade airframes, engines and avionics at the same time or for that matter. We have the expertise, the skills and the companies.

Gee we could actually wind up with a selection of aircraft to meet current and future mission profiles putting Canadians to work and keeping the money here.

Let the professionals do their jobs, it's what they are paid for, not some internet forum trolls who think they know better......

Anyways, back in the real world......

External weapons testing has begun.

They're going to blow billions of dollars we don't have, on junk that doesn't work, that we don't need anyways.

And if you dare to question them, they screech and honk at you that you are too stupid and aren't even worthy enough to ask a question.

And even if they did allow you to ask a question, they wouldn't answer it on the grounds of "National Security".

As taxpayers, we can only hope that the USA pulls the plug on the F35. Looks like they're moving in that direction.

With those nice big flat surfaces...so much for stealth.

CS, do you have any idea how expensive is the PAK-FA and how much it would cost to change the avionics and operate it? Notice how I don't say that you are stupid and that it is obvious that the F35 would be cheaper. I'm really just asking

Can you explain to us how the PAK-FA would be a better choice than the F35 for the role that Canada intends it to have? Notice how I don't say you don't know crap and that there is no way a Russian jet could do the job. I'm really just asking.

Given our total lack of knowledge about complex systems such as DAS, can you povide us with reasons as to why the PAK-FA would outperform the F35? Notice I don't say you never heard anything about military jets and that the systems of the F35 make it the best fighter in world. I'm really just asking.

Given the recently proven combat superiority (let's say since the F15 and F16 are operational) of western fighters against russian jets, what makes you think the PAK-FA kicks ass that much? Notice I don't say russian stuff is junk, I'm just pointing out that last decades combat records show a clear Western fighters domination. Is it the pilot, the airplanes or both? I don't even go there. I'm really just asking.

...the risk level accepted by the commanders are such that it would be amazing to actually see a full up dogfight. .

Care to elaborate on that?
Thanks

A few things.... First, the price. The JSF is going to be CHEAPER, I say again, CHEAPER than most 4.5 Gen fighters (Super Hornet, Rafale, Eurofighter).

Tubs have had structure repairs and upgrades but have not been replaced as per Australia.

There is no reason we could not do the same thing and upgrade airframes, engines and avionics at the same time or for that matter. We have the expertise, the skills and the companies.

Gee we could actually wind up with a selection of aircraft to meet current and future mission profiles putting Canadians to work and keeping the money here. Unless you think Canadians are not capable...I believe and industry shows we are. Plus we keep the majority of the dollars and the jobs in Canada.

So politicians are professionals in aerospace and defense? they make the decisions and set the policy.
After a comment like that I know who the troll is....

With those nice big flat surfaces...so much for stealth.

Relax, its all OK, the gov'mint knows what its doing, spending billions on new airplanes when they have to cut everyone's (except the civil serpent's) pensions to pay for them. My wife has waited 6 months to see a neurologist to get some treatment for a herniated disc, but we'll have the latest fancy jet-planes for our shortest pilots to fly around over the North Pole and zip around to visit their families in. Or to nip down to Bermuda to ride scooters for the weekend... Just don't crash one because the government won't pay for your injuries, if you survive. Just ask the Afghan vets how good the disability plans are and how easy it is to get medical help for those missing parts. Doesn't matter that nobody has a clue what those snazzy jets will cost, we have lots of money, we can keep selling our oil to China (wait, they own it already). Just keep cranking up the taxes and squeeze the small part of the population that actually works, like Quebec, then we can all have $7 a day daycare while we eat our dog-food sandwiches and dream about health-care.
This country is fzck'd - I have no clue why it functions. None.
But we will have the shiniest jets. Seeing as how we won't be able to afford to run them, we can park them next to those EH-whatnot helicopters that we bought, the ones that are parked because we can't get parts for 'em. Maybe we can keep the whole shitteree at the same place the submarines are stored, you know, next to the catamaran ferries the BC government built? The old gun-registry building?