Work Or Not To Work - Sickness Is The Question.

[laticsdave]

So, what are your views on this? Should you work no matter who else you might infect, or do you stay at home living off Advil and NeoCitran.

I'm asking this as I crewed a charter a few weeks ago with a crew member recovering from bronchitis, but who was constantly coughing. We were in the aircraft for 7 hours in an 8 hour duty day. I started coughing up copious quantities of lung butter the following day, and a visit to the local Walk-In Clinic confirmed a dose of bronchitis! I was 100% fit at the start of the duty day, and other than our passengers, whom I only interacted with briefly, I met no-one else after the end of the day.
I elected to stay off work, even though I used up the last of my "sick-days" for the next 6 months. Still, I didn't infect anyone else!!

p.s. I know the wording on the poll question is a bit poor, but I was limited to 100 characters (used 99).

[JayVee]

I thought you hurt your back?

Regarding the a-hole who chose to bring his contagious illness to the cockpit, regardless of whether or not he had sick time left, what the f@(&?

Some people have to stop the "me" syndrome and think of how their conduct affects others.

I learned a long time ago that if I'm sick, I can't do my job 100%, and I don't want to pass my illness on to others. Sick bank or no sick bank.

[Clodhopper]

I've seen guys come in loopy on T3's and say that it wasn't a big deal. Seen guys so sick they said "its a good thing its two-crew, because I'm useless". Guys puking from stomach flu at outstations only to fly home because they've "never called in sick in x # of years".

Fantastic work people. You coming to work just got me sick, now I'm home potentially spreading it to my immediate family. I'm shocked that at this point "coming to work sick because I'm afraid of my reputation" is the most-clicked answer.

[robshelle]

But if you go to work sick, spread the bug around, get everyone else sick, then they have to call in sick(because they have scruples), and you can collect all the overtime(even while you are still sick)! Isn't that what teamwork is all about?

[laticsdave]

I'm shocked that at this point "coming to work sick because I'm afraid of my reputation" is the most-clicked answer.

I guess that for a lot of newly qualified pilots in their first or second flying job, that whole "I'm not worthy" BS is still in their mindset.....but that's a topic that has been "discussed" dozens of times over the years and will no doubt re-appear soon, so I'm not going to get into it!!!

I've seen guys come in loopy on T3's and say that it wasn't a big deal. Seen guys so sick they said "its a good thing its two-crew, because I'm useless". Guys puking from stomach flu at outstations only to fly home because they've "never called in sick in x # of years".

To quote the CARS:
Fitness of Flight Crew Members
602.02 No operator of an aircraft shall require any person to act as a flight crew member and no person shall act as a flight crew member, if either the person or the operator has any reason to believe, having regard to the circumstances of the particular flight to be undertaken, that the person
(a) is suffering or is likely to suffer from fatigue; or
(b) is otherwise unfit to perform properly the person's duties as a flight crew member.
....so if an accident or incident happens due to your inability to do your job safely due to your company's unwritten rule that you fly even if you're having, to quote Billy Connolly, diarrhea through a hole in your balaclava, may be the underlying factor that influenced your decission to work while unfit, but I'm sure it's your ass that's going to get reamed.

But if you go to work sick, spread the bug around, get everyone else sick, then they have to call in sick(because they have scruples), and you can collect all the overtime(even while you are still sick)! Isn't that what teamwork is all about?

I know two-crew is meant to make things safer by sharing the workload, but sharing your germs doesn't seem to follow that rule!! Plus, what if one of your co-workers is asthmatic, diabetic, has an already weakened immune system, etc - you could make their lives a whole lot worse, and all for a few dollars - think if it was you or your loved one who is now hospitalised/unable to work longterm/dead, etc just because you want overtime (not paid in two of my last jobs!).

[robshelle]

Sorry, I guess I didn't show enough sarcasm in last post to show how I feel about it. Actually, I am ATC, and we have a few members who will do this, and it does piss the rest of us off too! Especially now that we get any unused sick leaveaid out at retirement at 50%, there are a few people who see staying home sick as costing them money 25 years later! Pathetic!

[jump154]

I still remember the bad example in my frist job, where one old guy was retiring and lauded for "Never having a day off sick in 45 years" - at the time made me wonder how many others did because of him. And this was in the UK, where you coudl self-certify the first 5 days sick, and there was no set amount of sick days........

[laticsdave]

and it does piss the rest of us off too! Especially now that we get any unused sick leaveaid out at retirement at 50%, there are a few people who see staying home sick as costing them money 25 years later! Pathetic!

Well said

And this was in the UK, where you coudl self-certify the first 5 days sick, and there was no set amount of sick days........

Remember it well.....and full pay for first 6 months sick, 1/2 pay for the next (I know this as that's what I was paid following breaking a "few" bones in a car crash many years ago while I was still a whinging pom!!!!).

[Colonel Sanders]

Not sure anyone remembers SARs but ...

A few years back in Toronto a "heroic"
Employee came to work at HP in Toronto
And infected the entire office - over 100
People!

That's the kind or work ethic corporate management
Wants to see!!

[Lost Lake]

Some employers leave you no out. No fly! No pay! However, if you show up for one flight, sneeze on everyone, wipe your snot on the controls and leave, you get paid for the day. The company sets itself up because a couple of guys abuse the system. Imagine if a company said: If you show up sick and infect other pilots, you will be grounded without pay for a week! Unfortunately most companies are too short sighted to see that. Get the flights done today, we'll worry about it tomorrow. Besides, it's only a cold/flu/virus etc!

[Liquid Charlie]

Stay the fu_ck away from work cuz I would send you home anyway - I don't want to share the flight deck and get that gift -

[Rowdy]

Plus, what if one of your co-workers is asthmatic, diabetic, has an already weakened immune system, etc - you could make their lives a whole lot worse, and all for a few dollars - think if it was you or your loved one who is now hospitalised/unable to work longterm/dead, etc just because you want overtime (not paid in two of my last jobs!).

Thanks for the chuckle Liquid Charlie!!

You won't be flying commercially in Canada with Type I.. Type II requires a shit ton of exemptions and paperwork. Also, wouldn't it be contravening the cars to be operating with a disease or other known ailment that massively weakened the immune system and caused other such troubles? How would one go about obtaining a Cat 1 medical with serious health concerns such as that?

I've seen both sides of this argument, employees taking a couple of days off to recover from a mild mild case of the sniffles (while watching their favourite sporting game) to guys showing up for a flight barely able to stand while wheezing up a lung and still drooling from a recent upheaveal of their stomach contents.

Thankfully being blessed with one of the strongest immune systems known to man, It still fries me when I have to go to work with someone who is clearly NOT in the same category. You're getting other employees sick, disrupting daily operations, annoying passengers and generally being a pain in the ass. Even then, there have been times where fatigue has played a concern, and due to a weakened body overall I have succumbed to that fate of being SICK and have called in as such.

If you're sick, you're sick. Do not go to work. Do not get me, the dispatcher, the CSA's, the passengers, and everyone else's immediate family sick. As for employers, I know there are quite a few CP's, Ops Managers, VP of Ops etc on here... if an employee shows up sick, SEND THEM HOME!@ Lets get this message across.

[laticsdave]

You won't be flying commercially in Canada with Type I.. Type II requires a shit ton of exemptions and paperwork. Also, wouldn't it be contravening the cars to be operating with a disease or other known ailment that massively weakened the immune system and caused other such troubles? How would one go about obtaining a Cat 1 medical with serious health concerns such as that?

I'm not limiting co-workers to just flightcrew (even if we are the most important!! ). I'm sure if you infect your office staff, ground crew, biscuit-chuckers, CSA's, they and your HR dept. are not going to be too happy. You make all the rampys sick, and you'll be loading all that pop 'n' chips yourself!!

[Rowdy]

I'm not limiting co-workers to just flightcrew (even if we are the most important!! ). I'm sure if you infect your office staff, ground crew, biscuit-chuckers, CSA's, they and your HR dept. are not going to be too happy. You make all the rampys sick, and you'll be loading all that pop 'n' chips yourself!!

Ohh I agree! I was just being a dick about how you'd worded it Plain and simple though. We should all set the bar by not going to work if we feel ill. If this creates staffing issues at times.. perhaps the operators should step up and HIRE MORE EMPLOYEES!! but we all know most are too short sighted for this

[Lost Lake]

Hey Rowdy, remember the dives. Certaincrew would take time off for nothing, while some of us showed up trying to be soldiers. Even worse with the new contract.

[Rowdy]

Hey Rowdy, remember the dives. Certaincrew would take time off for nothing, while some of us showed up trying to be soldiers. Even worse with the new contract.

Chronic offenders!

[Meatservo]

Oh come on you guys. Yes, it would be great if sick people stayed home, and yes it would be great to stay home if you were sick. But you know as well as I do that there are many operators who ratify the behaviour of coming in no matter what. Why, even now when I am too sick to work, (again, look! a sign that the attitude prevails everywhere, how sick are you before you're "too sick to work"?) I am worried that people will think I'm a "faker".

Staying at home with the sniffles is fine unless you work for those kind of crooks who pay "by the mile". Then it's all well and good to take the altruistic high road, but your buddies aren't going to share their Mr. Noodles with you just because they appreciate that you didn't get them sick, then what are you going to do?

I work for a company that values me enough to pay me a salary, and has enough crew flexibility most of the time to not have to cancel flights just because I have diarrhoea, but I can remember a time all too well, when the main reason I went to the airport to do my night currency circuits before payday was because I needed the extra .5 hour on my paycheque to make sure I could afford to keep my truck. I sure as hell wouldn't have called in sick and missed a good trip in those days, unless I was just about to die.

So in other words, it's admirable to stay home and baby those sniffles, but not if you have the kind of job where you'll die of scurvy if those sniffles last more than three days. Personally, I think it's easy to be high-and-mighty about the issue if you can afford to be, but not so much if you can't.

One final word to my co-pilots if they're reading this: Give me your damn cold and I'll kill you slowly. I hate colds.

[cgzro]

Invariably when I travel for buisness in winter, especially on the long haul flights, somebody has a flu and I end up getting it no matter how far away they are sitting. I guess they recicrulate only 30% of the air or something so we end up all breathing the same crap after a short time. So while you may not want your co-workers being sick, who would, .. you may have sick pax and you will catch that too ;(

I think I'd draw the line however , for the sake of safety at things like uncontrollable coughing fits, migrane or having to make sudden trips to the toilette. I suppose if you have a runny nose, feel a bit stuffed up and cough occasionally its unlikely to stop you from being safe and while you may infect your co workers, they are at the mercy of the pax anyway.

[Cyclenut]

Working when you are sick causes more lost time and is harder on the economy in the long run.

Google: Presenteeism (as opposed to absenteeism)

For those hard assed bastards that believe it's 'manly' to work when sick, the sooner you die the better! Keep your germs to yourself and don't be so inconsiderate.