Does KD Air stand for Kraft Dinner?

[Lost Lake]

Can't believe no one else has jumped on this before me.

KD Air is looking for a line pilot for the Navajo, Navajo Chieftain, and Cessna 172.
This position involves single pilot IFR flights.
We are looking for someone with at least 1000 hours, IFR and Navajo experience would be a huge asset.
We ask for a one year commitment, there is no bond, but there is a handshake which for some pilots means more than any paper agreement.
Salary starts at $2000 per month, if we like you, there will be raises - often.
The schedule is four days on, two days off. The days are short, usually 6-7 hour shifts.
All of our pilots are based out of Qualicum Beach.

$2,000 a month on Victoria Island to fly a single engine navajo over the straits and in the mountains, with 1,000 hr experience? Oh and if you are dumb enough to take this job, being very competent but grumpy doesn't get you raises. Only "if we like you, there will be raises" The reason you are grumpy is because thanks to only 4 days a week and 7 hr days, you have a chance to get a night job flipping burgers (at a better wage) in order to pay rent and eat.
The after income tax wage is $19000 per year. Everything you buy will have tax on it. That's $2,500 a year. Net disposable income = $16.5500 or $1,375 a month. Rent - $1,000 per month? That leaves $375 a month to pay student loans, phone bills, food (KD), clothing, grooming, and local transportation. Forget clothing and entertainment, unless you can make your own booze and clothes from scratch. Oh and forget ANR headsets, you can't afford the batteries.

Why would anybody with 1,000 hr experience, IFR and time on a Ho want to work for $2,000 a month, especially in the glorious winter weather surrounded by mountains.

WTF! Just when I thought the industry was improving.

[ybwflyguy]

I can't believe no one jumped on this either, I was expecting a post right away!

It's one thing being paid $24K to put the flaps up in a Metro, quite another to be burdened with the responsibilities that come with SPIFR for such a meagre salary.

[rapid602]

You both have valid points. I really really think, and really hope there are some typo's in that listing.

REALITY .... they probably have over 100 resumes by now.
and 100 more to come yet....

[Just another canuck]

I was talking to these guys before they had troubl during the Olympics. They were very friendly and helpful and it sounded like it would be a fun place to work. We never talked salary. I make that much on EI and there's just something very wrong with that statement alone.

[Lost Lake]

No job can be "fun" when you're worrying about how you are going to afford next month's rent being a "captain". Oh, and as far as the bond and hand shake goes, I would be demanding a 1 yr $15,000 bond from them for a year. If you don't get at least that much extra in raises in a year, they owe you the difference, with interest!! And it doesn't reduce with every month either.

I do give them credit for posting the wage though. And for any sucker who takes the job, I would definetely file your resume in the round bin! The only reason you would take this job is because you are a whore and or totally unemploable in this industry

[yup-yup-ok]

Lost Lake, welcome to Canada. Victoria Island is in the farth North, well above 60. Vancouver Island is 30NM or so off the coast of British Columbia. Just to the West a touch.

[medi-whacked]

Here is my guess/take on the job offer.

The area of employment is known as a retirement haven. I suspect they have a pool of pilots that are 55+ of age, semi - retired, that they
are hoping to draw on. To a semi-retired old northern bush pilot with-out a pension from 35+ years of flogging T/O's and
flying floats in the north, working 12 hour days, this job might look attractive.

I agree the job demands more than that of an entry level pilot.

[seniorpumpkin]

Well this thread is pretty offensive.
Let me clarify a few things for you.
$2000/month is basically the training wage. As soon as you're ppc'd expect a solid raise. This will be followed by additional raises almost every month, so saying it's a $24k/ year job is just not accurate at all.
There are additional perks, some monetary, some not, I won't get into the details but our pilots are comfortable.
The wage would be higher if the margins were better. The fact is we operate a valuable service to the communities in this area, there just aren't that many people living here who need to go back and forth. The owners are not here to get rich, they live in a trailer and they continue to operate this company because it provides a good lifestyle. Everyone working here can afford a roof over their head, good food, and the occasional fun thing. If we paid every pilot $80k, this service would not exist.
I pay $350/ month in rent for a fantastic place which is a 15 minute bike ride from work.
Wages on the west coast are relatively low for the same reason house prices in Vancouver are relatively high- life is good here! This week I've been downhill skiing, golfing, and mountain biking. Next week probably I'll go kayaking. Qualicum Beach is close to all those activities. It is a truly fantastic place to live especially when you consider some of the other places pilots are willing to live.
The flying here can be challenging, but we break people in very gently. Training is extremely thorough, we don't cut corners, and we take our time. The first few months of flying we generally restrict pilots to VFR or easy IFR days, not likely any charters- depending on aptitude. This allows them to get used to the airplanes and the airspace in case they aren't already familiar. By the time the hard IFR days of winter are here the "new hires" are getting paid much better and they are totally comfortable and familiar with the equipment.
We fly some of the best maintained Navajo's you've seen. This company has been operating for over 20 years, they've got it figured out! In those 20 years KD Air has NEVER had an accident ever. That's a pretty good track record especially considering the environment we operate in and the track record of our competitors. If you want to see how it's done right, come to Qualicum and check us out.

I suspect they have a pool of pilots that are 55+ of age, semi - retired, that they are hoping to draw on

That's true, we also tend to get a lot of younger people who are looking for the next step in their career. Vancouver Island is the best place to live, but the worst place to find a flying job, so there is never a shortage of pilots here. We tend to hire people who are skilled aviators, yet motivated to work here and further their career. We know it is a stepping stone and we don't stand in the way when people want to leave. Most of our pilots go straight into the 705 world.
If you still find our job ad offensive, get a law degree, go be a lawyer, get rich, and stop being a whiny little b1tch.
In case you're wondering, I'm not an owner, just a line pilot who cares about the reputation of the company I work for.
Oh and one other thing, KD Air was around before Kraft Dinner was called KD, they named it after us

[Gessle64]

I always like how people try to justify a low pilot salary with "the company's margins". Ever think about what the AME gets paid? I guarantee it's a livable wage that allows him to put back money. Offer that guy $2000/mo and he'll walk off fuggin' laughing!
Just for a reality check, if you plan on living like an adult, it's going to cost more than $350/mo for rent.

[flyinthebug]

Thanks for the CURRENT info on KD Air seniorpumpkin. I know Lars and Ketty run a very solid op there and I thought 2000$ was a bit low. I did some flying for Lars back in the 90s and he was very generous, thats why this initial wage is jumping out at so many of us as low. I know Lars paid me more than that back 15 yrs ago (but I had a current PPC on the PA31 at the time). The equipment is very well maintained and as you said, no corner cutting on maintenance or training.

The only reason I didnt stay at KD Air was Lars wife was ummmm "difficult"..and anyone that knows the op, knows what im talking about.

If you can get along with Diane and enjoy flying on the coast...you could do alot worse than KD air. Good people, good equipment, decent pay and perks. Im sure once you are ready for SPIFR with them, the wage will go up significantly.

I do hope they have cut out the 172 trips across the strait though! I told Lars from day 1 I would NOT fly the 172 across the strait. Just a personal limit for me...single engine piston over water...no thanks. Otherwise, a very good place to work.

Fly safe all.

[Lost Lake]

Senior Pumpkin, the way you worded your ad was rather offensive. Maybe you should have mentioned some of those details you just posted. IE training wage until PPC'D. Still, it's hard to justify low wages just because the owners run tight margins. They may live in a trailer (Mobile home?) but I bet they are driving around in a new pick up. If margins are that tight: raise rates, become owner/pilots, sell the business. You can't afford to have an accident as it will probably bankrupt the company.

Sorry to sound so harsh, but I've heard these stories before. Been the victim of a few bankruptcies in the past. Having said that, maybe I would consider it for a retirement job.

[seniorpumpkin]

if you plan on living like an adult, it's going to cost more than $350/mo for rent.

I also own a house in Victoria which I pay the mortgage for. Does that mean I'm an adult?

Ever think about what the AME gets paid?

Our AME gets paid very well. He is the best I've ever seen and I've seen plenty. Like I said, one of the perks is flying some of the best maintained Navajo's there are.

Lars wife was ummmm "difficult"..

That's fair, and if you get on her bad side you won't be around long. Stress effects some people in very bad ways. At the end of the day she means well and she's very protective of the business they have worked so hard to build.

I do hope they have cut out the 172 trips across the strait though!

I understand your concern there and I would respect your decision to not fly it. Company policy is to not operate it in a situation where an engine failure would mean a water ditching. That means never crossing the water unless you can get 3500ft, that way you can easily glide to shore where there are lots of suitable beaches or logging roads for an emergency landing. The 172 doesn't make us much money, but operating a reliable scheduled service, it saves us from losing our shirts on those 1 and 2 passenger round trips to Texada.

I bet they are driving around in a new pick up

Do you mean the old 2002 Jimmy with 300,000 km's?

If margins are that tight: raise rates, become owner/pilots, sell the business

-we have to compete with Harbour air who have a much lower cost per seat mile than we do. They have a very different business model and operation than us, yet we draw from a similar customer base.
-Lars is the chief pilot/owner and he flys just as much as the rest of us
-they tried to sell the business but the only buyers they could attract planned to lay off half our staff which- because the owners care about us- made it a deal breaker.
Do you have any other ideas for how to squeeze more dollars out of this industry? We would love to hear them. Honestly, we would.
I'm not trying to sound like an ass here, but I'm tired of seeing the armchair critics insult good people based on bad information.
KD Air is not for everyone, but there are many many worse places to work and the overall experience most people have here is quite positive. If you want to pick on a company for paying it's pilots a low wage, pick on a company that makes enough money that they could pay the pilots better but choose not to.

[Cat Driver]

I try not to get involved in these arguments...B U T ..

Lars runs a good operation I have known him since he started flying...

[merlin]

I turned down this job 6 years ago because they refused to pay more than 2K a month. Not even keeping up with inflation. Training wage??? I had a current PPC. Basicly you are buying your PPC here, or putting money in their pocket if you already have a PPC.

Wasn't for me. I don't pay for training.

[Ralliart]

I also turned this job down a couple years ago because of the low salary. I was even unemployed at the time.

http://avcanada.ca/forums2/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=65972

[Lost Lake]

Ya, they should hire Kevin O"leary. or go on Dragon's Den! If they can't make money and pay decent wages, sell the planes and go fly for someone else. I'm sure they are decent folk, but don't fall the ole "Gee you guys are so nice. Please let me help you out by getting poorly paid. Believe me, when or if they get into big trouble, don't expect a thank you bonus.

[Cat Driver]

Jebus,Jebus, Jebus why do I get involved in this stuff.

The pay is insulting, that wouldn't even cover my expense account when I was in aviation...


.....but the aviation industry is in the dark ages pilot pay wise because of the supply and demand factor.

KD operates a safe clean service.....if a pilot is determined to bend over the barrel for the glory of flying, at least flying IFR at sea level in positive radar control is a better way to build time than a lot of jobs out there....

Sad but true.

[Tubthumper]

Oh and one other thing, KD Air was around before Kraft Dinner was called KD, they named it after us

Ha! You actually prompted me to look it up, Kraft Dinner has been around since 1937! Even Cat Driver hadn't yet started to study for a a Student Pilot Permit.

[Gessle64]

I also own a house in Victoria which I pay the mortgage for. Does that mean I'm an adult?

You're paying mortgage AND another rent on $2000? Lol. What's the point? Do you eat?

Our AME gets paid very well. He is the best I've ever seen and I've seen plenty. Like I said, one of the perks is flying some of the best maintained Navajo's there are.

This is exactly my point. The AME is paid well, but you are not. So the profit comes off of the pilots' backs. Why is that? Aren't you qualified to fly planes as well as the AME is qualified to fix them?

[seniorpumpkin]

This is getting off topic and turning into a personal attack on my decision to join KD Air. All you need to know is - I'll say it again for those of you cough... Gessle... cough who cannot read: The starting wage is $2000, it goes up quickly unless you totally $hit the bed.

Aren't you qualified to fly planes as well as the AME is qualified to fix them?

I'm pretty good at flying planes, but my level of skill and experience pales in comparison to our AME. He has been fixing planes for decades and is a master at his craft. The hours I put in do, in fact, afford me enough time to get a second job if I wanted/needed it; our AME on the other hand works way harder and way longer hours therefore he gets paid more.
I'm getting tired of this game, if you don't agree with how I and many others before me have justified working at KD then don't apply for the job!

[BverLuver]

I think some people need a reading comprehension lesson seniorpumpkin, don't let them get you down. $2000 is not a livable wage, I know that, you know that, they know that, we all know that. Guess what people, it's not you wage for very long. That's a training wage. Some places don't even pay you during training. A/C pilots, do you get paid on sim days? Open up your eyes people, comprehend the words being written and stop focusing on incorrect minutia.

Good luck SP, I hope you find a very good safe and capable pilot that fits the mould of your operation and not some di*kweed that is just gonna bitch and complain and ruin the buzz out there, like I suspect some of these idiots would.

Fly safe all.

BL

[180]

Why all the suspense?

$2,000/month training wage, $X,000/month after 6 months, $Y,000/month after 12 months, $Z,000/month after 2 years?

What is 'X', 'Y' & 'Z'?

[Gessle64]

If we want to talk comprehension, let's do it globally. Many pilots comprehend that taking a $2000/mo job is a slap in the face to your fellow pilots. Training wage or no, you can't live on it, so how do you survive?

if you don't agree with how I and many others before me have justified working at KD then don't apply for the job!

You're defensive to the point of not making sense. I as well as plenty of your peers don't agree with the way you and others have justified working there. It's not just KD, it's other operations, too. The solution is not to just bugger off and "don't apply for the job". The answer is to stand up for yourself by not putting up with a garbage wage and/or working conditions at any point in your career.

My apologies if I was too aggressive.

[Ned Ryerson]

This is just silly... multi pic time? who needs that? I'll just stay in the right seat of my clapped out navajo flying to bumf**k no where 20 times a day and earn less, thank you.

[Just another canuck]

I remember when I made 2k a month... I was 15 and mowed grass for the municipality.