Military pilot application window?

[Flightman7]

Im grade 11, and right now there accepting apps for pilots. My worry is it will be closed next year when I try to apply. Do they open up the application widows once every year, two years or how does it work? I dont remember it being opened at all last year so now im concerned it will be the same next year.

[Bolter]

Best bet for accurate info is to pop down to the recruiting center and ask. In recent years, the CF has filled the available slots very early into the year. That said; not sure if the option to get a degree after you're in is still open/you may have to go to RMC & do pilot training in the summer.

[trampbike]

You don't have a university degree, so the best (and probably only opened) program for you is ROTP. You can go to your local RC and ask for all the papers necessary for the application, but take your time filling it, they'll only start processing it in September 2012 (for entry at RMC/CMR or civilian university in September 2013). If you apply, a regular timeline should look a bit like this:

Sept 15 2012: CFRC calls you
Oct 2 2012: CFAT, if you pass, go to next step, if not, you can chose another job in the CF that requires a lower CFAT scores than pilot
Oct 30 2012: Basic Medical and interview. If found suitable go to next step, if not, chose another job in the CF
ASAP after interview and medical: Go to the optometrist the CF refered you for eye testing and go to a military base for blood tests and an ECG. If everything if fine, wait.
December 12 2012: The CFRC calls you and offers you a couple of dates for the CAPSS at Aircrew Selection Center in Trenton
January 15 2013: You'll be flown to Trenton for 3 days of testing (4 "missions" in the CAPSS). If you pass (about 50% of the applicants pass), go to next step, if you fail, get a new civilian pilot license (PPL if had nothing before the tests, CPL if you already had your PPL, ATPL if you had the CPL) and apply next year
January 19 2013 You'll go to Toronto right from Trenton for further medical testin at DRDC. It should last one or two days. If nothing bad if found with your body, go to next step, if not, get better and apply next year or forget about this career
Wait anxiously, if you don't die go to next step
Continue to wait anxiously
April 22 2013: Your CFRC calls and tells you: "Hello mister Flightman7, I just received the decisions from the ROTP selection board, and I have an offer for you: ROTP, pilot, at [RMC/CMR/civilian university]. Do you accept it?" If you say yes, go to next step, if you say no, then I don't know what the hell is wrong with you.
July 27th 2013: Go to your CFRC and get sworn in
August 12th 2013: Congrats, you are now on the payroll
August 15th 2013: Go to St-Jean for 2 weeks. It's sort of a mini-introduction to what the BMOQ will be like. If you still thinks the military is for you, then go the school for the next year, BMOQ will be next summer. If you want to get out of the military, then you can do it right now or wait another year, which you should in order to have time to really think this through, and also you would be crazy to get out of one year of paid tuition and basic salary.



Don't worry about the program closing, ROTP never closes. However, the number of spots available varies each year (might be 12 spots or 220, you can't know beforehand, and neither should you worry about that. Just apply and do your best).

Hurry up and wait!

[old_man]

The pilot trade is a very very competitive trade with many more applicants than positions. There are several factors that affect yearly intake of pilot candidates. Some of them are: attrition, training back log, overall federal budget (growing or downsizing?) also the predicted future of these as well as a bunch of others. There are also different entry plans that will put pilots in the seat in different time frames i.e. DEO vs ROTP/RMC. An ROTP/RMC recruit will not be operation for upwards of 5 years in some cases if not more where as a DEO will be quicker. So the planners have to try to guess what the future need will be not just what the current need is. Make any sense?

It is impossible to determine what will happen next year or the year after that in terms of intakes/slots. How does this information change your course of action? It doesn't. Simply apply for the program you want when you are ready. You will either get in or not. If not, try again next year. As Trampbike pointed out it is not just a 2 week process. Also consider how you can make yourself more competitive. Sports, leadership, volunteering, maybe join the reserves (this can have a certain financial advantage if you go the RMC/ROTP route). And of course....go to the recruitment centre and ask your questions there. They know more about this than the internet.

Lastly, don't give up but have a very good back up plan. Apply to other schools or have another career ready. I have a feeling that the number of people who walk into a recruitment centre that want to be a pilot vs the number that actually become one is quite a big ratio.

Help any?

[trampbike]

And of course....go to the recruitment centre and ask your questions there. They know more about this than the internet.

Sadly, I came to doubt that...
While it's true that the RC is the only valid source of information concerning the formalities of an application, forums like army.ca and other websites contain much more valuable and accurate information about the selection process, the training and the operational life of a CF pilot.

I have a feeling that the number of people who walk into a recruitment centre that want to be a pilot vs the number that actually become one is quite a big ratio.

I was told they process around 2000 applications each year, and a couple hundreds of them make it to the selection board. I can't imagine how many more people walk in the RC to say: "So I want to fly the jets that rolls around, go very fast and all that shit. I'm also a kick-ass beach volleyball player. Where do I sign?"

[Expat]

Went that route many years ago.
Tramp,
Good description of the process. ROTP screening also included one week of IQ tests and assorted higher studies aptitude tests, done in March. I remember those very well.

[SAR_YQQ]

+1 to everything that "trampbike" mentioned

[trampbike]

ROTP screening also included one week of IQ tests and assorted higher studies aptitude tests, done in March.

I guess they don't do that anymore. CFAT was the only kind of IQ test I had to do. I went through the selection process in 2010-2011.
At ASC, we did a 2h computer-based test, but it was only for research purposes, it didn't count in our application. I think it was the UK selection test. They want to see if the results at this test is a better predictor (is this even an english word?) of future success at PFT and BFT than the CAPSS.

[Expat]

Strange, but Military Colleges required back then IQ tests.

[TheCheez]

This FY is slated to be a large intake for pilots. Doesn't mean next will be small. If you're interested in ROTP there was a message that just came down announcing a new partnership with Seneca as well, it's something to consider. As usual, the recruiting centre would be able to point you in the right direction.

[126.7_STFU]

tampbike, did you have a degree before you went in or any previous experience? How competitive is it these days?

[trampbike]

I applied through ROTP (civilian university) as I was already into a meteorology degree. I had a PPL, a couple of years of work experience as a tech in a high end bike shop and a competitive sports background.

There is no way to know how competitive a given year is, and you should not care about that either. Just apply and do your best, you'll know soon enough if you are competitive: you'll get a job offer.

[bradley]

I've heard that they are anticipating around 40 ROTP pilot slots for next FY, official numbers will be out April 1st though. Pilot was closed or had minimal spots for a couple years, but the training backlog issues seem to be improving now. They are trying to increase pilot output too, so I can see the intake numbers being pretty steady for the next couple years.

Aircrew selection is also changing. The RAF test is now officially part of the selection process in addition to CAPSS. You still get the piece of paper that says PASS or FAIL, but successful candidates are now ranked by score (RAF test + 4th sim session) for the merit boards.

[126.7_STFU]

Bradley,

Can you please elaborate? So the "volunteer" testing at the very end of Air Crew is no longer on a volunteer basis? So there will be more aptitude tests within aircrew?

[Flightman7]

Thanks you all ton, so freaking helpful its not even funny, especially you tramp-bike. Ill get on that application!

thanks again,

Flightman7

[bradley]

Can you please elaborate? So the "volunteer" testing at the very end of Air Crew is no longer on a volunteer basis? So there will be more aptitude tests within aircrew?

Correct, the RAF aircrew testing was evaluated for several years at CFASC, and it is now part of the selection process. CAPSS still gives you a Pass/Fail rating, but now they rank all those who pass based on their CAPSS score (4th session) and RAF test score. This ranking is then passed on to the merit boards who select candidates (you are not told what your ranking is).

The curriculum for PFT and BFT is being rewritten, and the new selection system is supposed to ensure a higher success rate during flight training. PFT is becoming a selection course again; the new PFT training plan was failing about 40% of guys when it started last summer. I've heard the new BFT will be rolling out within the next few serials, if not already.

[126.7_STFU]

Bradley, for those of us who lack knowledge about all these changes, please clarify the following.


.

CAPSS still gives you a Pass/Fail rating, but now they rank all those who pass based on their CAPSS score (4th session) and RAF test score.

So prior to this change, they just ranked you based on your final (4th session / simulation score) but now they use the old system AND .... the RAF test score? So if you screw up this "RAF" test you're screwed? What is this RAF test anyway? Simulator work, aptitude testing ? What is it comprised of?

This ranking is then passed on to the merit boards who select candidates .

So what happens if candidates do very well (CAPSS) and not so well on the newly adopted testing? SOL?

The curriculum for PFT and BFT is being rewritten, and the new selection system is supposed to ensure a higher success rate during flight training.

What does this RAF test do exactly that the other testing does not?

PFT is becoming a selection course again;

What does this mean? Candidates who enter under the DEO plan from a University (possess a CPL) are no longer bumped up to BFT?

Thanks

[duramaxguy]

I applied 3 years ago.....I wasn't even considered for a pilot position....they immediately redirected me to naval engineering or something of that like, which I have zero interest in. A couple things to consider. With the amount of applications that they get, right off the bat they screen for a MINIMUM of a B average in high school and they look for involvement in your community (AKA volunteering). At the time I had a CPL with 250hrs and they weren't too interested with that small amount of flying time as an asset. Pilot is an officer position therefore you must earn a degree before commencing flight training whether it be at RMC or through a civilian university. The CEOTP is available for SKILLED applicants (by skilled they mean 4 digit flight hrs) where, if accepted, you must complete a degree while you work.

all that being said I think it would be an amazing gig and would jump on any opportunity of being able to do so.

I have considered re-applying now that Im SKILLED but i don't think my high school transcript has magically improved. Throw a grade 10 math test at me right now and you'd be in for a chuckle.



T

[CLguy]

The CEOTP is available for SKILLED applicants (by skilled they mean 4 digit flight hrs) where, if accepted, you must complete a degree while you work.

The above quote in not correct. I know at least 6 guys who are now active pilots in the Air Force flying fighters, transport, helicopters who entered under this program with about 250 hours right out of Confederation College.

CEOTP opens and closes depending on pilot requirements. I believe right now it is closed.

[bradley]

So prior to this change, they just ranked you based on your final (4th session / simulation score) but now they use the old system AND .... the RAF test score? So if you screw up this "RAF" test you're screwed? What is this RAF test anyway? Simulator work, aptitude testing ? What is it comprised of?

Before this change, candidates were not ranked at all, simply assigned a 'Pass' or 'Fail' grade. 'Pass' or 'Fail' is still decided by CAPSS in the new system, however now candidates who 'Pass' are ranked on a top-down aptitude list. This ranking is determined by your CAPSS score (4th session) your CAPSS learning curve, your RAF test score (one section only) and your CFAT problem solving score. This is designed to select better candidates.

The RAF test consists of 14 sections, only one of which was found to provide data not already found by CAPSS. The remaining sections are still done though, so future studies can see which are good predictors of training success.

So what happens if candidates do very well (CAPSS) and not so well on the newly adopted testing? SOL?

Then you will be ranked lower on the aptitude list, making you less competitive for a spot.

What does this RAF test do exactly that the other testing does not?

They just found that one of the data sets was a very good predictor of training success, so they use it to further refine the list of candidates.

What does this mean? Candidates who enter under the DEO plan from a University (possess a CPL) are no longer bumped up to BFT?

No, PFT bypass is still allowed, however the PFT course in recent years had evolved into more of an introductory style course than a selection course. The result was that people were able to pass, just to fail their training at a later stage. The new training plan is meant to be more selective (through a higher attrition rate), to reduce training attrition at later stages and to produce overall higher quality pilots in the end.

[Flightman7]

So what happens if you fail PFT or BFT as on ROTP? Your forces to do 7-9 years in a different trade?

[mcrit]

So what happens if you fail PFT or BFT as on ROTP? Your forces to do 7-9 years in a different trade?
So what happens if you fail PFT or BFT as on ROTP? Your forces to do 7-9 years in a different trade?

You do your five years of obligatory service in some other trade.

[bradley]

So what happens if you fail PFT or BFT as on ROTP? Your forces to do 7-9 years in a different trade?

Mcrit is correct, if you fail PFT or BFT you meet with a personnel selection officer and they give you a list of trades that are available to you. You then pick the one that interests you. If you are lucky, some good trades might be open, it is not unheard of though for guys to be given the choice between infantry officer, artillery officer or combat engineer officer...

Once your obligatory service is up, you can either stick around or release.

[Flightman7]

At this point im leaning towards DEO Thanks again guys.
(Edit: Spelling)

[careerpilot?]

it is not unheard of though for guys to be given the choice between infantry officer, artillery officer or combat engineer officer...

C'mon, don't hack too much on the Infantry! I've given 11 years of my life to the Patricias... But then again, I'm one of those "so you can't go pilot because of your eyes.... But since you like camping, maybe the Infantry is for you!"

Now I'm another one of those guys trying to get into Pilot now that they've relaxed the vision requirements... Not an easy task to transfer over these days...