Those senoirity handcuffs.

[Rockie]

You must be from the government because so far they're the only people you haven't blamed for your terrible inconvenience. If they had kept their noses out of it and let the negotiation process run its natural course there would have been a mutually agreeable contract in place by now and you wouldn't be held hostage you poor thing. The drama award goes to guess who...

Put a little deep thought into this and if you simply must blame somebody, blame the people who subverted the negotiation process and have kept this thing dragging out way longer than it needs to.

[TheStig]

Which likely will be explained as another deflection, unions are bad, them vs us blah, blah AC hate.

Actually, if you were to read posts of mine from as little as a month or so ago, I was a major supporter of AC and their employees. However, in more recent weeks, it has become abundantly clear how little the employees and the company care about the customers. You know, the ones that buy the tickets giving you a reason to strap yourself into a big aluminum tube. The sense of entitlement shown by the employees (executives included) is staggering and the lack of respect from both sides to the customer is undeniable. It's out there for everyone to see. Blame it on media/corporate spin whatever you will, but it wasn't management chasing down passengers into the parking lot or going on illegal strikes disrupting innocent bystanders ability to conduct their daily lives. As I said before, the public will simply not allow you to hold them hostage, nor should they.

As for the lesson on pensions, thank you. I'm glad you spent so much time breaking down the most basic aspects of DB vs. DC pensions that a 14yr old already understands. As always though, it leaves out some key info that makes it not so cut and dry from the employee or company aspect and you know it, or at least should know, if you are trying to give lessons on pension merits.

So, rather than getting further into a debate that doesn't affect me anymore with people that are obviously much smarter than I and more insistent on attacking me and my "lack of knowledge" rather than discussing how the customer should be looked after as a bare necessity in sustaining a viable operation/jobs, I will simply bow out. As you say, I know nothing about everything, so why bother right? Any chance you know what my side business is? I think you would be fairly surprised, who knows maybe we have even crossed paths.

Sleep tight, enjoy your "negotiations"

BL

BL, if 14 year olds had that understanding of DB plans there wouldn't be so many people on this forum asking "why would anyone want to work for Air Canada? Or my favourite, "Everyone complains so much, why don't they quit?"

Customer service is very important to all Air Canada pilots, you've obviously had experiences with the airline that have influenced you otherwise, but your time would be better spent writing to Air Canada's customer care:

Air Canada - Customer Relations
PO Box 64239,
RPO Thorncliffe
Calgary, AB, Canada
T2K 6J7

Coming on to an Air Canada forum and pissing on Air Canada Pilots who have undertaken no industrial action** or threatened to strike despite having their right to negotiate removed by the federal government is going to generate some adverse reactions. The right to freely negotiate their terms of employment without outside interference is the only thing Air Canada pilots feel entitled to.

**In a recent letter under the VP of Employee Relations pen name (Rick), Air Canada pilots were informed that the companies complaint to the CIRB with respect to 'illegal job action', reported to the media as an excuse for the airlines horrible performance on the March 24th & 25th, has been shelved after Air Canada requested an abeyance. Too bad we wont get to hear how many pilots actually called in sick.

[BverLuver]

TheStig, your point is noted.

Thank you

BL

[c170b53]

why doesn't the company split the money left in the reserve relative to time served and call it a day? I understand that you would not get as much as one would if they went through the normal process but isn't getting something better then potentially getting nothing at all?

The monies in the fund belong to the contributor and should there be a wind down, contributions plus interest earned will be returned to each contributor. The fund's solvency funding ratio would determine what haircut would be applied to that number. Last year's numbers; liabilities were calculated to be $12.78B
Although all is doom and gloom right now, Air Canada’s pension plans currently have about $10.6B in assets. Thus a 1% change in the discount rate will increase or decrease the liabilities of the fund by
about $1.6B. If interest rates rise the fund's deficit quickly disappears and all those insurance firms make money again.

[ogopogo]

But in today's environment (or say the last 10 years) are DB plans sustainable? People are living longer (ref the OAS changes coming) and the funds are having trouble keeping up. If there is supposed to be enough money in the pension fund to make everyone happy, why are so many employers planning to switch to DC, then? Is it because returns can't keep up with the outlay? AC and GM both have more people on the pension that they do employees, I read somewhere. Probably Hydro as well.

An employee pays for his entire pension plan through his contributions and the investment returns of the plan.

The statement above is only partially true, because at some point the pensioner reaches a level where he has taken out far more than he ever put in. Sweet deal if you can swing it.

PS No one has corrected the typo in the Subject line yet!

[Ah_yeah]

Senoirity: derived from senoir, a fine French grape.

[ogopogo]

Senoirity: derived from senoir, a fine French grape.

I thought maybe Seniõr

[mbav8r]

Either way it's still spelt seniority

[Ifly]

Spelt is a grain, spelled is the word you're looking for.

[CID]

I was just having a little fun with the acrimony leveled at me from BverLuver on another post. He's quite the drama queen.

[mbav8r]

spelt   [spelt]
verb
a simple past tense and past participle of spell
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/spelt

[chatman]

What will happen to AVEOS workers pension that work outside of Ontario, it sure doesnt look good for them

[c170b53]

Contributions up to July 14 2011 are still in trust in the AC master fund as the OFSI had not had a chance to approve the Aveos pension plan. Contributions since then are reported by Aveos's statements to the OFSI to be in trust but not confirmed. Not been enough time has elapsed to determine the Solvency ratio.

[Shamtom_spike]

BverLuver

Your probably right about what you said, We both have same opinion about that.



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Women can stand a beating except when it is with their own fallkniven.