* AvCanada's Home Page * Photo Gallery * Directory * Topsites *Weather *Enter Chat * Media Kit
It is currently Sun May 19, 2013 12:43 pm

View unanswered posts | View active topics




Board index » TOP AVIATION FORUMS » General Comments » Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft

All times are UTC [ DST ]

Who is chatting
Who is chatting
Enter Chat




Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2
  Previous topic | Next topic 
Author Message
Magnetron
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:08 pm 
Offline
Rank 1
Rank 1

Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2009 11:26 pm
Posts: 40
Location: YWG and around
HavaJava wrote:
flyincanuck wrote:
There is a lot mentioned about trim runaway, as well.


From what I understand, the electric trim was permanently disconnected...are you thinking it somehow reconnected itself? I guess it could be a possibility depending on how maintenance performed the work, but I doubt it...

I don't remember 100% but it was most likely disconnected on all the bonanzas at the time. And they pulled out the circuit breaker so no one can push it in and have deferred it on all journey logs and sent out a safety bulletin with regards to it.

just to clarify some things on that end.


Top
 Profile  
 
Big Pistons Forever
PostPosted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:40 pm 
Offline
Rank 11
Rank 11

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:17 am
Posts: 3060
Location: West Coast
Another factor is training in a high performance aircraft. If a spiral dive is allowed to develop a Bonanza will accelerate from cruise to VNE in 7 seconds. Similarly the stall characteristics are not dangerous but definitely more demanding than a Cessna 172. It is pretty hard to loose control of a Cessna 172 but these guys were flying a much more demanding aircraft. Sadly it appears that the instructors skills were not up to the task. Even more regrettably the schools response was not to address the instructor experience deficit it was to impose such tight flight restrictions that most advanced training will become largely ineffective in preparing students for their first flying job.

I was recently asked for an opinion on whether or not to apply to Seneca from a young PPL. My advice was unequivocal.......Don't apply, there are other options where you can get better training for less money


Top
 Profile  
 
Colonel Sanders
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 1:00 pm 
Online
Rank 11
Rank 11
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 3922
Location: Over Macho Grande
Quote:
high performance aircraft


Excellent point. Years ago, Richard Collins - I doubt anyone remembers him, now - proposed that a different instrument rating should be required for retractable gear aircraft, because of how slippery they are, and how fast they can get into trouble.

People here probably won't remember the FAA re-certification hassle of the Piper Malibu - they were routinely coming apart in cloud - but the bottom line from the FAA was that doctors should turn on the pitot heat in cloud.

I met a guy who bent the wings on a Piper Meridian. He is lucky to be alive.

It's disappointing that the TSB report didn't address this.


Top
 Profile  
 
CpnCrunch
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 3:36 pm 
Offline
Rank 7
Rank 7

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:38 pm
Posts: 688
Why not use a retractable 182?


Top
 Profile  
 
slam525i
PostPosted: Fri Mar 23, 2012 9:06 pm 
Offline
Rank 4
Rank 4

Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:00 pm
Posts: 214
Location: Toronto
Colonel Sanders wrote:
Quote:
high performance aircraft


Excellent point. Years ago, Richard Collins - I doubt anyone remembers him, now - proposed that a different instrument rating should be required for retractable gear aircraft, because of how slippery they are, and how fast they can get into trouble.


I miss Collins' articles in Flying, almost as much as Gordon Baxter's.

Would you say that proposal is still valid giving the very fast fixed-gear singles like the Corvalis & Cirrus? (I've never flown anything faster than a Cardinal, so I genuinely don't know.)


Top
 Profile  
 
Doc
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:43 am 
Offline
Top Poster
Top Poster

Joined: Mon Feb 16, 2004 2:28 pm
Posts: 8599
Colonel Sanders wrote:
Quote:
high performance aircraft


Excellent point. Years ago, Richard Collins - I doubt anyone remembers him, now - proposed that a different instrument rating should be required for retractable gear aircraft, because of how slippery they are, and how fast they can get into trouble.

It's disappointing that the TSB report didn't address this.


Collins has some points, BUT any instructor with a Class 1 should never have had a problem here. Either that, or the Class 1 instructor rating needs some very serious rethinking. Obviously it's woefully inadequate as is.
It's a good thing the plug is being pulled on the Bonanzas. TC could pull Seneca's OC until they show their instructors are actaully qualified to perform the duties they are assigned. Student pilots, regardless of their own experience level have a RIGHT to assume they wont DIE simply because the instructor is underqualified/undertrained for the job at hand.
I find TSB reports, for the most part, so sanitized and "cleaned" up to be pretty much useless. These kids died, and the "excuse' seems to be, "my oh my, the Bonanza is a slippery little sucker, ain't it?"


Top
 Profile  
 
bverwegen
PostPosted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:10 am 
Offline
Rank 2
Rank 2

Joined: Fri Apr 16, 2010 10:49 pm
Posts: 66
Location: Air 5001
The main theme seems to be is the level of experience the instructor had. I agree that higher time instructors with real IFR experience would be best suited for flight training, but the way most instructors get paid I don't believe anyone would really want to leave a well paying (or not so well paying) airline job to go instruct for peanuts. I have came across a few awesome instructors up to my CPL who have really taught me some great things, but that is with doing BIF flights and tracking, nothing to do with approaches, holds, etc, where the experience can really help out the student.


Top
 Profile  
 
Brown Bear
PostPosted: Tue Apr 03, 2012 2:30 am 
Offline
Rank 6
Rank 6

Joined: Sat Dec 20, 2008 9:17 pm
Posts: 487
OMFG! that is all.....
:bear: :bear:


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  Page 2 of 2
  [ 33 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2


Board index » TOP AVIATION FORUMS » General Comments » Accidents, Incidents & Overdue Aircraft

All times are UTC [ DST ]

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: MSN [Bot], PAJ, ptc and 10 guests

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group

Advertisements by Advertisement Management
 
For questions/comments please send them to
webmaster@avcanada.ca

AvCanada Topsites List
AVIATION TOP 100 - www.avitop.com Avitop.com
While the administrators and moderators of this  forum will attempt to remove or edit any generally objectionable material as  quickly as possible, it is impossible to review every message. If you feel a  topic or post is inappropriate email us at support@avcanada.ca .  By reading these forums you acknowledge that  all posts made to these forums express the views and opinions of the author and  not the administrators, moderators or webmaster (except for posts by these  people) and hence will not be held liable. This website is not responsible or liable in any way for any false or misleading messages or job ads placed at our site.   

Use AvCanada's information at your own risk!

We reserve the right to remove any messages that we deem unacceptable.
  When you post a message, your IP is logged and may be provided to concerned parties where unethical or illegal  behavior is apparent. All rights reserved.