Pinnacle files Chapter 11

[HighT5]

http://www.canadianbusiness.com/article ... cture-debt

[teacher]

Sick, they want their pilots to help with cuts? Arent' these guys lucky to make minimum wage in the right seat?

[seafeye]

I Never flew for pinnacle but have friends there that do.
Starting wage for a crj f/o is around $22,000/year.
Coupled with poor hotels and schedules its anyone's guess how they attract new pilots.
Republic is offering $5000 to start now be ause of the trouble they are having hiring.
Most regionals in the USA are going to be in trouble because they can't find new talent.
Attrition is steadily increasing. Cancellations are just around the corner when the new rest rules come into effect.

[Big Pistons Forever]

Not good news for Bombardier. Pinnacle is the biggest C series customer .

[Gino Under]

"Not good news for Bombardier. Pinnacle is the biggest C series customer"

Pinnacle is NOT the biggest C Series customer. Pinnacle hasn't ordered ONE.
(you may have mistaken Pinnacle for Republic Airways)

Until the scope clauses are eliminated, no 121 regional will fly the CSeries in the United States.

Gino Under

[Big Pistons Forever]

You are right I was thinking about Republic not Pinnacle.

[Gino Under]

No sweat.

If I had a buck for everytime I made a mistake or got it wrong, I'd be living offshore with a fat bank account and a margurita.

cheers,
Gino

www.cseries.com

[cdnpilot77]

No sweat.

If I had a buck for everytime I made a mistake or got it wrong, I'd be living offshore with a fat bank account and a margurita.

cheers,
Gino

http://www.cseries.com

Another buck to add to the bank account


mar·ga·ri·ta  (märg-rt)
n.
A cocktail made with tequila, an orange-flavored liqueur, and lemon or lime juice, often served with salt encrusted on the rim of the glass.
[Spanish, from the name Margarita, Margaret.]

[airmech07]

Bye bye pinnacle enter jazz, chorus, whatever they call themselves

[mbav8r]

airmech07,
You want to try and make sense, I don't know what Jazz has to do with Pinnacle filing chapter 11.
And for me, when someone ask me where I work, I say Jazz, not Chorus or whatever else.

[Gino Under]

mbav8r

Thanks. Another buck added.

No matter how you spell it, drinking margaritas watching the sun go down over the palm trees is still one of life's little pleasures.

Gino

[oh yeah baby]

Bye bye pinnacle enter jazz, chorus, whatever they call themselves

I sometime go to bed hoping that the next day people will stop creating rumors about Jazz. The working condition, benefit and work restriction of the Jazz employes have nothing to do with their US competitor. Remember that those carrier are paying 22000$ per year with a high employes turnaround. It has nothing to do with a Jazz carrer contract.

Pretending that Jazz will get some of the flying is pure crazyness. I sincerely hope that it will not happen. There is always a crazy rumors floating at Jazz and im sick and tired of hearing those stupidities.

There is far more serious then that.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/story/2 ... grade.html

Stop thinking about the shed when the house is burning. You like rumors i ll give you one... how about AC will go bankcrupt on purpose to reopen negociation on the CPA before 2020 and force the hand of their employes at the same time. Be careful on what you wish for because you might get that 22000$ with a brand new CPA. Jazz should get prepare to counteract that instead of thinking about getting in a lousy market.

I will probably get several bucks...

[Gino Under]

Poor Air Canada. Doesn't sound good.

All CBAs coming up for negotiation are going to be bloody. Assuming the unions stand their ground there are two choices looking down the road.
1. Reduce the ASMs and fleet composition by getting rid of the Airbus A320s and 319s. (Not to mention B767s)
2. Tear up the CBAs and start all over from square one.

Or they'll have to close the doors for good.

It's highly unlikely they can survive the next dose of reality (strikes). The corporation OR the unions.

As a taxpayer and occasional AC passenger I don't want to see any more tax dollars handed out to save airlines, buy over priced jet fighters, or finance professional hockey teams. Now, if the government were to give me a million dollars to slide off into retirement and STFU, I'm good with whatever they want to do with your tax money.

Gino Under

[palebird]

Air Canada will be in CCAA again before the year is done.

[Gino Under]

American Airlines is now in Chapter 11 protection and it doesn't look good for their future survival.
All regional airlines are facing a new reality as legacy carriers cancel or terminate service agreements.
It's time to throw out scope clauses in favour of survival and a new world (airline) order.
Doing so could see stronger regional carriers expand their operations as a result of better opportunities and in some cases, better management.
Congress has legislated a minimum 1500 hours and an ATP for 121 entrant F/Os.
The grown ups are going to find it tougher to handcuff the regionals without raiding that pilot supply for survival and in many cases that regional pilot supply is carrying an ALPA induced grudge.

Things could get interesting if American fails. Really interesting.

Imagine if the express carrier "formerly known as Jazz" were no longer imprisoned by senseless clauses?

Gino Under

[hawker driver]

I guess this is taught in Airline management 101



Updated: April 4, 2012, 12:37 PM


WASHINGTON — Pinnacle Airlines is having trouble paying its pilots — but the struggling regional carrier didn't have any problem agreeing to pay its departing CEO $1.7 million, or giving its new top executive a $250,000 raise less than two weeks before the company filed for bankruptcy.

Read more .......

http://www.buffalonews.com/city/capital ... 794753.ece

[Gino Under]

Good article.

It underscores a number of reasons why pilots need to understand the business they're in and better understand why unions have to stop the US versus THEM posturing by constantly focusing on self interests. Especially when it comes to subverting fellow pilots. It's gone on for far too long.

If the big unions pushed for sensible compensation and balance between major and regional tie ups, much of what is going on today might have been averted. Especially where mainline and regional are in the same family. Who knows?
The financial sensitivity of our industry should not come as a surprise to any pilot whether unionized or not.

Business grads know how to make money. Most pilots don't. So when I see executives giving themselves bonuses and pay raises, like the ones at Pinnacle, it comes as no surprise. We only have to revisit Enron, Leiman Brothers and the like to understand it goes on and will continue to go on. How wealthy did those executives get on the pending demise of those outfits?

Most pilots just want to fly. Most, badly enough to put up with working for companies like this. That too will continue.

Gino Under

[Takeoff OK]

It's time to throw out scope clauses in favour of survival and a new world (airline) order.

Gino Under

Are you insane? Normally I agree with much of what you post, but this is absolute idiocy. Scope is the only thing that has maintained the bare minimum of QOL for mainline pilots in the US. Getting rid of it simply lays down a red carpet for management to take everything away. Period.

I would have figured you understood this, so were you being sarcastic?

P.S. Can somebody PLEASE POST THE DETAILS OF THE CURRENT SCOPE LANGUAGE AT AC!?! Hello? Rockie? Anyone? Bueller?

[Gino Under]

I may be insane, but...

Scope clauses were (past tense) a firewall for QOL at certain American carriers. None of which had similar wage and benefit provisions at their regional partners. So how did that disparity affect your fellow regional pilot who happens to be a member of the same union?
F/O Rebecca Shaw, $16,000 USD a year. How's that for QOL?

QOL indeed.

I changed my opinion of Scope Clauses a long time ago based on its cost/benefit. They've caused the most animosity between airline pilots than almost any other issue in the industry. When a ship is sinking you don't ask for the prime rib. When an airline is in bankruptcy you don't ask for a pay raise. You'd think union leaders and union members would be aware of that, for QOL purposes.

There was a time when I would have emphatically agreed with you that the scope clause WAS the only thing that maintained the bare minimum of QOL for MAINLINE pilots in the US. But sorry, not any more. Times have changed.

If the financial markets of the last 10 years mean nothing to you or your union. If the airline mergers over the last 5 years mean nothing to you or your union. If the number of times airlines entered Chapter 11 over the past 10 years mean nothing to you or your union, then defending scope is trivial IMHO.

We need an entirely new plan of attack.

Gino

[teacher]

Gino, stop trying to explain business sense to a group of pilots. History has proven that pilots especially union pilots make BAD buisness people. For the record I agree with you.

Let us now focus on more important matters like nation wide seniority, standard payscales that are NOT NEGOTIABLE and standard minimum WAWCON for ALL pilots. Imagine if AC went bankrupt tomorrow but it didn't matter to the pilots since they could use their seniority and move to another airline, perhaps a different one doing the same flying, get paid the same and have similar or the same working conditions. Because of the system that we created we have chained ourselves to failing companies and on the flip side not allowed those companies to do what was required to make money. It doesn't apply to all companies but mainly to the legacy types.

[mbav8r]

Teacher, a noble suggestion but futile at best. The system of standard wages and working conditions would have to be at the very least all of North America, not just in Canada. The airlines in Canada are competing with airlines in the U.S, that seem to file for chapter 11 on a whim, while giving themselves raises a mere 2 weeks beforehand. Then they gut wages and pensions and come back even closer to the bottom or a new level of bottom feeder, while all we can do is adapt or die.
Does it make it right, of course not. Can we do anything about it, not likely in this lifetime. Hey who knows, maybe operation orange will save them, we can always hope.