Need advice: Changing careers at age 30 to pursue aviation

[cj555]

Just to give a little background:
I have always wanted to become a pilot since I was very little. However I ended up pursuing an education that was more stable (aka a plan B): Accounting. I now have a degree in accounting (Bachelor of Commerce), and a professional accounting designation (CMA - Certified Managment Accountant). I have been working for a few years as an Accountant. Now, at age 30 I am seriously considering pursuing my dream to become a commercial airline pilot.

I will be starting my PPL this year. My plan is to save and then get my CPL (incl muli IFR, night rating etc) within a year or two. I estimate this would put me at age 33: fresh out of flight school with 250 hours looking for my first ramp job (expecting to fly right away is not realistic). Assuming I find a job in a reasonable amount of time: I estimate I would spend 6 months on the ramp, then 3 years flying up North. Perhaps moving up to a small jet company for a year or two (to gain jet turbine time), I would be looking at applying for Air Canada at age 37 with between 3000-5000 hours, and my ATPL.

I have a few concerns/questions:
1) Is it too late for me to make this career change? I don't want to put in years of my life buildling hours only to be turned down by AC because of my age. I know there are other options out there besides AC, however I just want to have a realistic expectation of what my future career options might be with respect to working for a major carrier given my age, experience and education etc.

2) Will my education in accounting (being a certified professional accountant) help me in the aviation world? Will it help me in getting my first job, will it help me at AC? I have heard that companies who hire low time pilots might find me over qualified, but that major carriers such as AC will look favourably on it.

3) How much does it matter where I do my flight training since I already have a degree? I am considering attending a traditional flight school. However I know that there are Universities such which offer aviation diplomas along with your CPL. Universities take longer, are more expensive, and do not offer much flexibility. I am wondering if it is worth it to attend a University given my situation? I am leaning more toward the flexibility and lower cost of a traditional flight school since I can complete my training faster, and I already hold a University degree.

4) Assuming that I do manage to make it to Air Canada in my late thirties, what could I expect from my career there given that I would have less time to build seniority then someone who started younger. With only 25 years before retirement age (65), is aiming for Capt on the Boeing 777 reasonable? I know that once you're hired at AC, the seniority system kicks in and it is less about flight hours/experience etc. Your ability to move up onto bigger aircraft depends on your years of service (seniority). Therefore, the only way I would get to the 777 is if nobody more senior then me bids on it first.

6) I am very interested to hear advice given my unique situation from anyone who really knows and is currently involved in the aviation industry. Any insight from pilots who have followed my path would be very helpful.

Thanks.

[BverLuver]

cj555,

It's not that unique of a situation. Many people get their start late. Many people will tell you, stick with the job that pays well and fly for fun. I say do what makes you happy! I will say though that your numbers and projections are very optimistic. Optimism is good, but flexibility is key. Your best laid plans may never materialize anywhere near the plan so be ready to work with that. Otherwise good luck and have fun and try to do all the training with no debt and finish with money in the bank, you will need it especially if we experience another slow down and 1-2 yrs are spent on a ramp/dock which is very realistic in any given situation.

Welcome to aviation, the best career in the world! Don't let anyone make you think otherwise.

BL

[Legacy]

To keep it simple......don't. You will do much better doing what you are doing now. As you can see tha industry is declining rapidly. By the time you qualify for the airlines who knows how bad it will be. I do believe do what you love doing but I also believe in making educated choices. And yes I agree with BL, I think your overly optimistic on your projections. By the time you obtain your license add another 8-9 years to qualify for the airlines. Don't forget to take into account the economic swings. If you get caught in a bad downturn it could add another 3-4 years onto the above figure.

[ahramin]

Maybe you should consider getting there via banking or insurance.



Jokes aside, as a best case scenario your timeline looks great. It's unlikely, but possible.

I would highly recommend you keep your accountant credentials current during the attempt to get your flying career going. If aviation doesn't work out for you, you'll have something to rely on that isn't so volatile.

Lastly, I wouldn't bother with any sort of aviation post secondary education. Get your licences and ratings, your existing education more than demonstrates your ability to think and learn. Nor will your degree be any kind of a drawback at any point in your career. At worse it's a talking point, at best it will get you the job.

[andy_mtl]

Hello there,

If this can help, at C6 we have a very nice guy, just got his upgrade to captain, that started his career in his 30ies and before he was a miner!

He was a captain back then on the 757 when he was a skyservice too, so this sows it is more than doable!
And he also is one of the nicest pilot i ever get to talk to at canjet, even tho he is in his 50ies he still has a great deal of passion for aviation, and its great to fly with him and have some interesting talks!
as everything there are challenges, but the sky is the limit!

Andy

[MackTheKnife]

This may sound a bit harsh but some one has to be blunt with you. I spent 39 years in the business so I know what I'm talking about and IMO you should seriously rethink giving up an established accounting career to pursue one in aviation in today hostile climate...especially at AC. It is one of the most dysfunctional companies on the planet run by people whose sole intent is to rob, rape and pillage every penny possible then run for the hills when their pockets runneth over!!

The RM's of this world have all but killed off the joys of a career of being an Airline pilot. The glory days are OVER.

Get a private license, buy a small airplane and enjoy the wonders of flying but let the dream die a rightful death there.

MTK

[vic777]

I have a few concerns/questions:
1) Is it too late for me to make this career change? I don't want to put in years of my life buildling hours only to be turned down by AC because of my age.

The odds are against you, but if they follow a quota system you may get hired as an "older guy", but you will be competing against other older guys with more flying time. Why not start your own Airline, get some Airbus A330s and blow Air Canada off the Atlantic? Or better still get a string of Tim Hortons and your own personal (business) Aircraft.

[cj555]

Thanks for all the comments guys. I appreciate all input and advice.

I would love to one day fly for an Airline, but it is starting to sound like that dream is slipping away with each passing year.

As of now, my plan to complete my PPL this summer to see how much I really like flying. If I really love it, I will probably go for it despite the odds being against me.

I am starting to realize that if I decide to go for it, I am more likely to spend my career flying for a smaller charter (Cpt on the Beech 1900 for example) then a major carrier. But then again, anything is possible. I believe you can do anything you put your mind to, so perhaps I will test out that theory.

I will just take it one step at a time. And rest assured I'll be on here each step of the way asking for help and advice. At the end of the day, if this is something I really love I would rather take the chance and go for it, then have to wonder "what if" for the rest of my life.

[rapid602]

Thank god I didn't ask all you guys for advice. I would have stayed at the factory making oil pans and transmission cases for F150's. Don't kill his dream, just help him get to the show.

If he wants to start at like $39,000 a year for 4 years .... let him. But I thought he did say WJ and Not AC. I think WJ pays more.

[cj555]

Thank god I didn't ask all you guys for advice. I would have stayed at the factory making oil pans and transmission cases for F150's. Don't kill his dream, just help him get to the show.

Sounds like you have an interesting path. Did you change careers and start aviation late? How did your path look? Did it turn out as you had planned? Where are you now, and how do you like it?

[Rebelle]

I say go for it! I am doing the same... Applied to an aviation program at college and really hoping to get accepted and start in the Fall. I am going to be 30 in May. I know I'll have many years ahead of me with low pay, tough jobs, etc, but I just don't want to do my current job until I retire... That's still a while away!!! Tons of time to change career.

[prop2jet]

CJ555, if your heart is set on flying for a career by all means pursue the training. In time you will discover whether it is what you want to do. Nothing is impossible as they say. I have found from my experience that the mapped out plan does not always follow the path I intended however I managed to achieve most of my goals along the way.

This industry is constantly changing as many others are. What is important is that if you find yourself getting up and going to work, enjoying it, then you are in a good place. There is lots out there and it is not limited to airline flying.

Good luck and enjoy the adventure.

[Rollercoaster Rider]

Hey cj555, ACPA could use your skills right now explaining economic realities of accounting .Hopefully you make it there before its gone,good luck.Alberta is good place to start,lots of places expanding.

[mduffy]

Look at the lowest paid jobs in the airline industry. By the time you get there, they will be the highest paid. The race to the bottom is setting new lows each morning.

[AC97]

hey cj555.
I finished my licences when I was 26 (thought I was old at the time) and was hired at Air Canada at 33.
Flew with a guy last week who started at a later age and was hired in his late 30's.
The thing is just to start flying as soon as you can and keep flying until you are somewhere comfortable.
A lot of where you end up just depends on timing and luck, so if you're doing it just for the love of flying, give it a go!
I'd say do your private licence and see if the passion is still there. If it is, it doesn't matter what anyone else says.
Be prepared for some disappointments and some hard stretches along the way (you may not always feel you are being treated as a professional as you work your way up through the ranks, and maybe not even when you are at one of the larger carriers). You'll know after some time in the industry whether it's worth it to you.
I think we regret the things we never tried in life more than those we did (even if things don't live up to expectations).
Good luck!

[apnel]

I'm 33 and I've put off training in the past, then picked it up again recently in a final push to git'r done. A few years back, I worked part-time on the ramp at YYZ and absorbed an earful of varied advice from pilots about my odds of success in the industry. The most common reply was "keep your day job and fly for fun". I find it hard to accept that idea as I don't even like to jog without a purpose like a trip to the grocery store. Similarly, flying around the patch in a rented Cessna can get boring once the novelty wears off. So naturally, with the support of my spouse, I'm continuing to pursue my goal of flying for food.

Like the other posters have mentioned, it's a volatile industry and hiring occurs in waves. I've got my speedo on and surfboard ready!

Best of luck!


"Procrastination is one of the most common and deadliest of diseases and it's toll on success and happiness is heavy." -WG

[vic777]

I'm continuing to pursue my goal of flying for food.

That's the altitude that ruins it for everyone!

[apnel]

I'm continuing to pursue my goal of flying for food.

That's the altitude that ruins it for everyone!

Not sure how it would ruin anything. I was referring to flying for money to put food on the table (relating it to jogging to the grocery store). Flying for free or for hours with no pay is a ridiculous concept. I heaven't heard of pilots flying for a hot lunch or something like that, maybe it happens somewhere but thats not what I meant.

cheers.

[cj555]

hey cj555.
I finished my licences when I was 26 (thought I was old at the time) and was hired at Air Canada at 33.
Flew with a guy last week who started at a later age and was hired in his late 30's.
The thing is just to start flying as soon as you can and keep flying until you are somewhere comfortable.
A lot of where you end up just depends on timing and luck, so if you're doing it just for the love of flying, give it a go!
I'd say do your private licence and see if the passion is still there. If it is, it doesn't matter what anyone else says.
Be prepared for some disappointments and some hard stretches along the way (you may not always feel you are being treated as a professional as you work your way up through the ranks, and maybe not even when you are at one of the larger carriers). You'll know after some time in the industry whether it's worth it to you.
I think we regret the things we never tried in life more than those we did (even if things don't live up to expectations).
Good luck!

It gives me a little more confidence everytime I hear someone refer to a pilot that was hired in their late thirties! I am hearing that alot of how fast you move up and where your career progression takes you depends alot on luck. Theres not way to plan for that, so theres only one thing to do: Go for it. I absolutely do not want to look back on my life and regret not at least trying. I am starting my PPL next month. I won't make a decision until I have at least gotten that far. But I'm 99% sure I will go for it.





Thanks to everyone for the comments and advice. I really appreciate it.

[cdnpilot77]

Earned my cpl a few months before my 31st birthday in 2008 worked the dock plus took a mid season layoff for the first couple years. Was out of work for a year (july 2009- June 2010). Got a seat in a 180 then a beaver and now a King Air 200. Coming up on 4years since I earned the CPL and I am nowhere near your projected hours. Although, this is my second lifestyle job that is even better than the first, but not without it's compromises. Don't necessarily feel like an airline needs to be your end goal to be successful. Sometimes a job will come along that is just to good to be true, but then turns out to be true. Lifestyle over metal and you will have a happy wife, happy life and an office in the sky!

[cj555]

Earned my cpl a few months before my 31st birthday in 2008 worked the dock plus took a mid season layoff for the first couple years. Was out of work for a year (july 2009- June 2010). Got a seat in a 180 then a beaver and now a King Air 200. Coming up on 4years since I earned the CPL and I am nowhere near your projected hours. Although, this is my second lifestyle job that is even better than the first, but not without it's compromises. Don't necessarily feel like an airline needs to be your end goal to be successful. Sometimes a job will come along that is just to good to be true, but then turns out to be true. Lifestyle over metal and you will have a happy wife, happy life and an office in the sky!

Hi cdnpilot,

So you are 4 years in since you got your CPL, and are on the King Air 200. How are you finding it as a career now? Are you still happy you made the change in 2008? What do your future prospects look like? What opportunities do you see ahead of you? When you speak of lifestyle, can you tell me what your lifestyle is like?

[the flying dutchman]

I changed careers at 30. I was a translator in the Netherlands, and emigrated to Canada to become a commercial pilot. It worked out, despite 9/11, which caused some delays in the progression of my aviation career. Right now I am doing aerial surveillance in the Caribbean, in a Dash-8. Today I am contemplating whether I should cut down some banana trees in my back yard, or go windsurfing if the wind picks up. I can support my family on what I make, my kids go to a good school, my wife doesn't need to work. I would go for it if I were you, but make sure you keep some kind of accounting gig (free-lance or parttime) to pay the bills before you make enough money flying. I still translated American tv-shows to Dutch for many years while working on my flying career. Flying is a lot more fun than most other things you can do to make money, in my opinion. And though the salaries in the airline world are not as great as they used to be, there are niche markets (such as aerial surveillance) that can provide a reasonable income with sometimes adventurous flying.

Good luck and cheers!

The Flying Dutchman

[cdnpilot77]

Hi cdnpilot,

So you are 4 years in since you got your CPL, and are on the King Air 200. How are you finding it as a career now? Are you still happy you made the change in 2008? What do your future prospects look like? What opportunities do you see ahead of you? When you speak of lifestyle, can you tell me what your lifestyle is like?

How do I find it, well the King Air is an impressive machine when you are coming off a Beaver. The jobs have been paying the bills for the last 18 months or so. For the 2 1/2yrs prior to that, without my wifes job, the mortgage and everyday bills would have been impossible to pay and I had relatively minimal debt when finishing the MIFR and a wife that can manage an extremely tight budget and still allow us to live.

Am I happy I made the change? Yes, I am one of those guys that went to air shows when I was 4-5+ years old and said I am going to be a pilot. It was not on a whim or a newly found love that had me get into it. Although the first couple of years were an extreme test of my marriage and my resolve to be a pilot, I feel like I appreciate what I have now so much more. But as I said, even this change is not without sacrifices. I had to leave my wife at home in SW Ontario pregnant with our first child, or children I should say (2), to sell our house and hold her job until she is able to go on mat leave in September. I rent a small room in NW Ontario in a small house with other roommates for the first time in 10yrs and with that added expense, again have to watch every penny until we relieve ourselves of the mortgage in SW Ontario.

Future prospects and future opportunities tie into where I am at right now. This is by far the best company I have ever worked for, in any vocation. Hands down, the best. The people, the airplanes the company culture, the work etc is exceptional. it has been a bit of short term pain, as described above for some very good long term gain. So my future prospects look to be staying here in a good town in NW Ontario flying a king air 200 for a long time. I had the visions of going to Air Canada or WestJet eventually, but when other opportunities arose (the beaver job and now this) for lifestyle needs and desires they were pretty well unbeatable and my outlook on the profession and my path changed fairly dramatically.

So what is my lifestyle like? Hopefully the others at the company will not get upset for divulging how great it is and let the secret out. Right now I work a few days per week, flying 75-250mile legs mainly with a schedule that is impossible to believe so lets just say it will allow me a lot of time with my wife and children when they move up in the fall. The Cp and the line pilots are some of the kindest men I have ever come across all with unique personalities but everyone is on the same page and on board for continuing the company culture. Everyone helps and encourages each other and none believe they are above anyone else, The CP just wouldn't allow it.

Prior to the arrival of myself and another line pilot, the last pilot hired was 4yrs ago and it's looking like he is a lifer along with the other fossils sitting next to us that have been there for 10-20-30yrs. (sorry Doc ). I really can't see myself going anywhere else anytime soon, lifestyle over metal. Having said that, the king air is a pretty cool machine and certainly no slouch.

I hope that helps!

[vic777]

the King Air is an impressive machine when you are coming off a Beaver.

If you can fly a Beaver and a King Air, you can fly anything!

[Mig29]

My advice to you CJ555 is:

Run You Fools.jpg (16.42 KiB) Viewed 3869 times

I'm only kidding Whatever you decide to do, I wish you best of luck!