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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:10 pm 
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Al Baker is slowly becoming the Micael O'Leary of the Gulf. As much as I support open skies, there is nothing here, on a reciprocal basis, for Canada to pursue. I fully agree with Rovinescu's position.


QATAR AIR CEO BLASTS OTTAWA ON LANDING SLOTS
Montreal Gazette, 13 April 2012

Canada: Akbar Al Baker has long argued, pleaded and cajoled Ottawa for more Canadian landing rights for his airline, Qatar Airways, than the three flights weekly currently between Doha and Montreal.

But the eminently quotable – and apparently fearless – chief executive may not have increased his chances with his verbal fireworks with reporters after a lunchtime speech to the Montreal Council on Foreign Relations.

Ottawa “is trying to protect Air Canada” by refusing Qatar Airways and Emirates Airline additional landing slots at Canadian airports and by forbidding its employees to strike, he told reporters.

“If my government protected me, no one could fly to Doha except Qatar Airways.”

Al Baker told reporters later that if he were Canadian prime minister, “I would tell Air Canada to go to hell.”

“Blunt talk,” he conceded. “But let it be heard that at least somebody is not afraid to speak the truth.”

Qatar would like to have “at least four flights a day to four major cities” – Montreal, Toronto, Calgary and Vancouver.

Ottawa has only one negotiator to handle all the requests from the world’s airlines for more landing rights, and Al Baker said that this is not a fluke.

It’s a considered strategy to slow down as much as possible the flow of additional landing rights, he said, a time-consuming trickle that is purposely done for the benefit of Air Canada.

“You have only one chief negotiator for such a big country. Other countries have teams that go all over the world. But this is no criticism of him. He’s a civil servant getting instructions from his political masters. Actually he was very embarrassed when he came to Doha. He told me ‘this is my mandate. I cannot go beyond.’ ”

In a bruising battle over the last few years, Emirates Airlines and other Persian Gulf carriers have accused Ottawa of restricting access to Canada to favour and protect Air Canada – to the detriment of Canadian consumers.

Air Canada argues that the carriers represent unfair competition because they are state-owned, pay no taxes in their countries and have nearly unlimited access to funds. Point-to-point traffic is negligible between Montreal and Doha, Air Canada president Calin Rovinescu has repeated, meaning that the Gulf carriers are eating into Air Canada’s home turf by using the Doha hub as a trans-shipping point to ferry passengers to their final destinations in Asia and Africa.

Isabelle Arthur of Air Canada said in an email that “our position on this issue has been stated publicly many times and we have nothing to add. The current bilateral arrangements allow for more than adequate capacity to carry all point-to-point traffic between our two countries.”

“In particular, note that with the introduction of Qatar’s three weekly flights, this now represents nine flights per week in each direction between Canada and the Gulf states.”

True, replied Al Baker. “But that’s the name of the game now.” Air Canada does the same thing with its hubs in London, Paris and Frankfurt.

“What do they do? They feed passengers to their (Star Alliance) partners (like Lufthansa).”

And Air Canada has been bailed out by Ottawa on many occasions, Al Baker said, including on its pension fund when the Montreal carrier filed for bankruptcy protection and after 9/11.

Al Baker, who always mixes unusually candid declarations in his speeches with jokes tailored for the local audience, said that Doha’s $16-billion U.S. airport will open this year, three years later than the projected four years due to repeated expanded plans.

To general laughter, he told Mayor Gérald Tremblay that “if you need us to take charge of building a bridge, we can build it in seven years. We can easily build a bridge in less than four years, but maybe it will cost you a little more.”

Tremblay later replied that the replacement for the Champlain Bridge is Ottawa’s responsibility

Al Baker said he knows he is “a very controversial figure. I am also very small physically. So don’t take me seriously when I threaten people.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:17 pm 
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Sorry Qatar man, landing rights are granted in terms of traffic between 2 countries and NOT potential flow through and connecting passengers. If there isn't enough people going or coming from Qatar than that's that. Trying to steal passengers from another country with an oil subsidized airline is not gonna "fly".


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:07 pm 
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Teacher..that's the crux of the issue between Canada and these 6th freedom operators. KLM is an excellent example of a 6th freedom carrier. They fill flights to Amsterdam, but little of the traffic is destined for Amsterdam. It's mostly flow through.

There is nothing in this for Canadian carriers. Why give away access to the Canadian market for nothing in return?


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 4:44 pm 
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Some of theses airline CEOs act like babies and just end up looking silly more then anything else! :lol:

With all due respect to Qatar Airways, but I don't think too many people care to fly through Doha, especially from Canada. Otherwise there would be at least one reciprocal flight by Air Canada going there. Or a charter by Air Transat....but there isn't one for a reason.

Grow up... :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 5:10 pm 
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Mig29 wrote:


With all due respect to Qatar Airways, but I don't think too many people care to fly through Doha, especially from Canada. Otherwise there would be at least one reciprocal flight by Air Canada going there. Or a charter by Air Transat....but there isn't one for a reason.

Grow up... :wink:


The market from Canada to the South Asian Sub Continent is substantial. India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka. Less so, via the Atlantic, but sizeable, is South East Asia (Bangkok, Vietnam, Kuala Lumpur, etc). Throw in other Gulf states, East Africa and South Africa and you have reasonable marklet sizes that will fill Gulf airlines online flights.

There is currently limited nonstop services between Canada and these destinations and so the market is accustomed to enroute connections. Futhermore, this market is price sensitive and will happily route through the gulf. Add on top of that the quality of service on any of the Gulf carriers would suck all of the traffic from European gateways. Air Canada not only loses, but so does Air France, KLM, Lufthansa.

Now, all that said, North Atlantic travel is substantial in terms of both demand and service and airlines flying those routes would jump to say they do not depend on those markets due to low yield. However, there are Octobers and Novembers and other low season months when you start looking at all markets for traffic.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 13, 2012 9:46 pm 
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I'm glad to see he supports the right of AC employees to strike. I assume that means he will be approaching the Qatar government and asking them to grant his employees the right to unionize and strike if they want.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2012 2:14 pm 
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It's accually nice working for a CEO who is working hard to build his airline.

Rather than a CEO who is working hard to break it down and line his pockets.

In about 5 more years Qatar and Emirates will have grabbed so much of the
global traffic that dinosaurs like Air Canada will be on their last legs.

Insh'Allah !!!!!


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:11 pm 
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Why would support putting 12,000 Canadians out of work and the demise of a Canadian carrier?


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 3:36 pm 
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Eventually they will get them.I can see at least five ways he could secure them.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:08 pm 
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bmc wrote:
Why would support putting 12,000 Canadians out of work and the demise of a Canadian carrier?


Oh please! The same old baseless, sky is falling nonsense.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 1:14 am 
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Obbie, if you think Al Baker isn't working hard to line his own pockets, well...good luck to you I guess. Not sure why you would think he - or Tim Clark, or Jim Hogan - are one iota better than AC management. I'll bet even Milton could run a profitable airline if you stuck him in the sand with limitless cheap labour, zero labour protections (well, Canada is getting there with Lisa Raitt), and a cozy arrangement with both the government and the regulators.

I don't think that linking the demise of legacy carriers to the rise of ME carriers is that far off base though, RB211. Although said rise is more of a symptom than a cause. Qatar/Emirates/Etihad are just the next wave of robber barons.

If the ME carriers with their cheap slave labour were allowed unfettered access to the Canadian market, and AC lost their feed to FRA and LHR, they'd have not much reason to be kept around in Star. And I don't doubt they would be gone then. The process would be accelerated by their own breathtakingly greedy management and myopic unions to be sure, but those factors would be incidental. The main cause of the destruction would be the lower costs domestically of WestJet and the MUCH lower cost base internationally of airlines based in despotic regimes. Even if Air Canada was this lean efficient company - which it absolutely is not - there's just no way you can compete with companies paying everyone but their pilots, third-world wages. And those wages too, will regress to the mean eventually.

'Tis the way of the world I suppose, but again, nothing to cheer about. Glad I'm nearly done with the whole industry to be honest. Walmart with airplanes, that's the new model. I just hope new pilots are preparing for their lives with their new foreign bosses.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:40 am 
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RB211 wrote:
bmc wrote:
Why would support putting 12,000 Canadians out of work and the demise of a Canadian carrier?


Oh please! The same old baseless, sky is falling nonsense.


Oh please. The same old misread a post and jump to a weird conclusion.


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PostPosted: Mon Apr 23, 2012 8:43 pm 
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bmc wrote:
RB211 wrote:
bmc wrote:
Why would support putting 12,000 Canadians out of work and the demise of a Canadian carrier?


Oh please! The same old baseless, sky is falling nonsense.


Oh please. The same old misread a post and jump to a weird conclusion.


So enlighten me then. Was I mistaken to think you meant allowing increased access for Emirates, Qatar and/or Etihad would lead to the demise of AC and thus 12,000 out of work?


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 2:21 pm 
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RB211 wrote:

So enlighten me then. Was I mistaken to think you meant allowing increased access for Emirates, Qatar and/or Etihad would lead to the demise of AC and thus 12,000 out of work?


Yep :wink:

The post above mine said:

In about 5 more years Qatar and Emirates will have grabbed so much of the
global traffic that dinosaurs like Air Canada will be on their last legs.

Insh'Allah !!!!!


In other words, God willing AC will be out of the picture, in favour of Qatar and Emirates. To which, I responded as I did.

People can hate AC all that you want. But AC employs a lot of good people. Supporting foreign flag carriers over our own is wrong.

That's where I was going with it. I'm with you on the sky ain't falling.

Canada's unfair tax burden on Canadian carriers put them at a disadvantage to many airlines. US carriers would love nothing more than to have access to certain Canadian domestic routes. And I'm sure there are enough AC hating general public that support that entry. But the price would be too high for Canada.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:22 pm 
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bmc wrote:
...
Supporting foreign flag carriers over our own is wrong.

That's where I was going with it. I'm with you on the sky ain't falling.

Canada's unfair tax burden on Canadian carriers put them at a disadvantage to many airlines. US carriers would love nothing more than to have access to certain Canadian domestic routes. And I'm sure there are enough AC hating general public that support that entry. But the price would be too high for Canada.


Check!

I agree, 'supporting' foreign carriers over our own is not desirable.

That said, however, protecting AC to maintain an unfair, inefficient, uncompetitive international aviation system is, clearly, not the answer either. If it was, surely AC would be a vibrant, profitable airline.

So now Canadians are restricted in choice of travel options, Canadian airports lose business south of the border and other Canadian businesses have a harder time accessing some of the world's emerging economies.

Global travel patterns are changing and Canada, AC/Star Alliance/LH don't seem to be willing or able to come to terms with that. They seem to think status quo is the only path to be followed. Since they can't, however, stop the changing global dynamics they will eventually be forced to come to terms with it. I think being proactively involved in dealing with these changes would be better for them.


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PostPosted: Tue Apr 24, 2012 4:48 pm 
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That's a lot to respond to because a lot of it is outside of AC's control. Higher taxes, long term airport leases charges are all passed on to the consumer. The same consumer who drives across the border to fly internationally.

As far as uncompetitive internationally, AC has an outstanding long haul business class product, easily on a par with British Airways. Coming from me, as a dedicated BA traveler that's saying a lot. AC, from a product and pricing perspective is every bit as good as many carriers.

In terms of uncompetitive international aviation system, many regions fall into that category. Europe with its arcane ATC fifedoms see controllers in Spain making hundreds of thousands, multiple layers of job protection in all ATC networks. The cost of which gets passed on. The Gulf makes all carriers uneasy. 20 years ago, aviation was in its infancy and they used it to their benefit. Their efficiency makes everyone look bad.

Canadian's have lots of option in Canada. But, it is cheaper south of the border. I have not done this, but it could be interesting to compare a net ticket price stripped of all charges and taxes, offered by carriers on both sides of the border.

In terms of Star and their ability to change with the times, they're actually ahead of all the alliances on many counts. I'll give you a good example of how good they are at keeping traffic in the family. A couple of years back, my Swiss flight from Bangkok to Zurich went mechanical. They immediately reprotected me on Austrian over Vienna. They could have also reprotected me on Singapore over Singapore, Thai direct to Zurich or over Frankfurt, Vienna, Singapore, Stockholm. They could have put me on SAS routing over Stockholm. Qatar or Emirates would have had to had me over to another carrier. The alliances have strong frequent flyer programs and cross marketing programs. AC benefits hugely from it, and Star alliance benefits hugely from have AC in the family.

Big full service airlines with a mix of short haul, long haul, regional, services have a hard time being all things to all markets. Low cost, full service, no service, business, etc is hard to pull off in one consistent package. And, being the biggest guy in Canada in a domestic market of really only two airlines, it becomes Canada's national punching bag.

I think the recent efforts to bring costs down are an attempt to address the very things you refer to. Lower costs enable them to offer lower prices, compete with the Qatar's and Emirates on price to international destinations. They have to change. They have to bring the costs down. That's not saying everyone is getting paid too much. I'm saying that as an international airline, they have to do everything they can to stop the transborder flying that consumers say is cheaper. How else could AC achieve that short of getting ongoing government subsidy? Yes, some of the top guys get paid way too much. But realistically, it's a handful. The popular notion that directors and below are making millions, is fantasy. IT's AN AIRLINE. Airlines are notorious underpaying businesses.

The world continues to not be a level playing field. There is way too much capacity and it far exceeds demand. With that much capacity, how do you fill airplanes? You drop your price. It's very easy to fill an airplane. It's very challenging to make money.

With all of that said, Canada needs to allow AC to grow internationally. To negotiate good air service agreements that have provisions for designating more than one Canadian carrier, even if there is no current carrier to operate. Having that in place enables carriers to grow. And it's always critical to negotiate for a balanced agreement that benefits all sides. The frustration voiced by Gulf carriers reflects this very point. There's not much in it for Canada. Allowing it, enables the Gulf carriers to turn on the vacuum cleaner and suck all the traffic away. Yes consumers will win. But I, as a Canadian, want to see our industry get stronger. Strong means more jobs


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