Hello AFT graduates,
As you may be aware, Seneca's aviation program is constantly changing. We are now a 4-year applied degree program, which includes 40 hours of training in an RJ simulator!
To keep up with the changes, we want to give our prospective students an idea of where our graduates are (or are not) in the aviation industry.
We would really appreciate it if you took a few minutes of your time and filled out our Aviation Alumni Survey, located online at http://aviation.senecac.on.ca/alumni/form.php
In the past, our website has allowed you to enter information on the Alumni Chat page, but some of you maybe have been reluctant to provide personal data. This new survey will be kept confidential within Seneca administration and will not be used or distributed to outside sources.
We also hope to obtain volunteers like you to assist in career days to attract future pilots, and also speak to our current students with advice on steps to take after graduation.
Additionally, we're looking for Class Reps to assist in tracking down some of our missing grads. If you're a grad from 1992, 1990, 1989, 1988, 1987 1985, 1979, 1978, 1977, 1975, 1974, 1973, 1971, or 1970, and are interested in helping out (basically just organizing within your contacts in your class and obtaining email addresses for as many of your group as possible), please let me know via email. Any help would be much appreciated.
Please feel free to drop by the hangar and see the new RJ simulator that will arrive in the fall of 2005.
Thanks for your time,
Jasmin Baron (AFT 1998)
Flight Instructor, School of Aviation and Flight Technology
jasmin.baron@senecac.on.ca
Attention Seneca AFT Graduates!
Moderators: lilfssister, North Shore, sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, I WAS Birddog
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Out of Control
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bizjet_mania
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bizjet_mania
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Contact Seneca with some "constructive critisism"? Now there's laugh! Where do you think these kids get the "attitude"??? Seneca TEACHES it! Welcome to Seneca. As of today, your shit no longer stinks, and you are the "Gods of the industry"!
The first year Seneca offered this course, I applied. I was in my second year of a BSC degree at Waterloo, had 900 hours, and was paying my way instructing. You know what these morons told me? They'd have to retrain me "their way".
And working in the north, in years to follow, I'v come across some of these "Gods". Two showed up for interviews wearing their blue leather jackets with the big Seneca "S" on the back! What a HOOT!! We hired one for a weekend to wax the Dak!!!
Now, having said this....I have run across some very good chaps from Seneca, and other schools of the same vein, but the attitude displayed by the few surley ruins it for the many!
Boy, this post should get me in shit?
The first year Seneca offered this course, I applied. I was in my second year of a BSC degree at Waterloo, had 900 hours, and was paying my way instructing. You know what these morons told me? They'd have to retrain me "their way".
And working in the north, in years to follow, I'v come across some of these "Gods". Two showed up for interviews wearing their blue leather jackets with the big Seneca "S" on the back! What a HOOT!! We hired one for a weekend to wax the Dak!!!
Now, having said this....I have run across some very good chaps from Seneca, and other schools of the same vein, but the attitude displayed by the few surley ruins it for the many!
Boy, this post should get me in shit?
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bizjet_mania
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bizjet_mania
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Actually I have a funny story. I was visiting my friend at his flight club and there was an American registered B200 there, they somehow landed at the wrong airport. Anyways the pilots climbs out and hes wearing a red shirt unbuttoned almost half way, his huge chest hairs popping out almost poking everyones eyes out with a huge golden chain around his neck. Looked more like a 70s porn star than a pilot. Funny stuff.
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LostinRotation
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Pilots love to think of themselves as professionals and then jump on the chance to shit on those that are actually professionally trained at a structured, accredited academic institution. Personally I find the concept of training for your commercial pilot license out at Joe's Feed Lot and Flight School to be utterly ridiculous.
Would you want a lawyer that trained at DeVry or at U of T?
Would you want a doctor that got his diploma at AAAAardvark medical school or at UBC?
Professionals train at professional schools and if you are opposed to that concept then you should stop short of crying, "I'm a professional" next time someone calls you a busdriver.
The fact is, academic institutions in ALL industries are criticised for turning out book smart people with no concept of how to actually do a job. A certain amount of on-the-job learning is inevitable in any industry, but aviation in particular. What, that 200-hr kid you just hired isn't an expert at small engine repair and dock building, in addition to flying that C185 for $1500 bucks a month? Ever think that if that's what you wanted you should hire a mechanic or a carpenter too and not a just pilot?!
Would you want a lawyer that trained at DeVry or at U of T?
Would you want a doctor that got his diploma at AAAAardvark medical school or at UBC?
Professionals train at professional schools and if you are opposed to that concept then you should stop short of crying, "I'm a professional" next time someone calls you a busdriver.
The fact is, academic institutions in ALL industries are criticised for turning out book smart people with no concept of how to actually do a job. A certain amount of on-the-job learning is inevitable in any industry, but aviation in particular. What, that 200-hr kid you just hired isn't an expert at small engine repair and dock building, in addition to flying that C185 for $1500 bucks a month? Ever think that if that's what you wanted you should hire a mechanic or a carpenter too and not a just pilot?!
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Cat Driver
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" I find the concept of training for your commercial pilot license out at Joe's Feed Lot and Flight School to be utterly ridiculous. "
So in your mind someone with say fifty years flying in the industry would not be qualified to open "Joe's Feed Lot and Flight School " to teach the subjects needed for becomming a commercial pilot?
" Professionals train at professional schools and if you are opposed to that concept then you should stop short of crying, "I'm a professional" next time someone calls you a busdriver. "
Hmmmm..... I can recall having some of the so called " Professional Flight School "graduates sitting in the right seat and found them to be totally useless as first officers due to the fact that they knew all the answers for everything except how to do what was required of them. Such as line up on final approach with the runway somewhere within reach without having to do a steep turn at the last moment to prevent the airplane from landing on the grass.
Cat
So in your mind someone with say fifty years flying in the industry would not be qualified to open "Joe's Feed Lot and Flight School " to teach the subjects needed for becomming a commercial pilot?
" Professionals train at professional schools and if you are opposed to that concept then you should stop short of crying, "I'm a professional" next time someone calls you a busdriver. "
Hmmmm..... I can recall having some of the so called " Professional Flight School "graduates sitting in the right seat and found them to be totally useless as first officers due to the fact that they knew all the answers for everything except how to do what was required of them. Such as line up on final approach with the runway somewhere within reach without having to do a steep turn at the last moment to prevent the airplane from landing on the grass.
Cat
The hardest thing about flying is knowing when to say no
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
After over a half a century of flying no one ever died because of my decision not to fly.
Awwww, man! I really didn't want to wade into this, but dockjock, your comments need to be addressed: If my lawyer's job is to get me off a traffic ticket, or my doctor's job was to fix an ingrown toenail, or my pilot's job is to complete a really cool day VFR scenic flight, then I couldn't give a crap where s/he learned. As the problems become more complex, then once again, I'm more concerned with their experience level/record than what institution's name hangs in the frame on the wall. 
The training ANY pilot receives at ANY school pales by comparison to the training they do once they get a job. If a pilot was to walk out of school and into the PIC seat of an airliner, then my attitude changes, and I'd agree with you. There is a reason this doesn't happen in Canada.
Professionalism is about attitude, and has nothing to do with where you train, with the possible exception of the military. SOME of the most professional pilots out there trained at Joe's Feedlot, and put the attitudes displayed by SOME college grads to shame.
The training ANY pilot receives at ANY school pales by comparison to the training they do once they get a job. If a pilot was to walk out of school and into the PIC seat of an airliner, then my attitude changes, and I'd agree with you. There is a reason this doesn't happen in Canada.Professionalism is about attitude, and has nothing to do with where you train, with the possible exception of the military. SOME of the most professional pilots out there trained at Joe's Feedlot, and put the attitudes displayed by SOME college grads to shame.
Aviation- the hardest way possible to make an easy living!
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
"You can bomb the world to pieces, but you can't bomb it into peace!" Michael Franti- Spearhead
"Trust everyone, but cut the cards". My Grandma.
Cat,
The more experience the better, for a teacher. But no I dont' think a person would get a well-rounded enough education on the academic side if they learned every subject from the same instructor. College wins in that each instructor is typically a specialist in his/her field.
Tids,
I concede that point to you. But I guess this brings it back to the basic point that most college grads are criticized for- which is non-core pilot extras (like having a personality
). Perhaps a Seneca grad who learned everything from an SOP, airline style training course is not the ideal person to hire to do camp work or whatever. But then the employer should know that and look for someone more suited like maybe calling up Joe's feedlot.
Then maybe it is the pilot's fault too for choosing the wrong school- hey if they wanted to build outhouses and fix outboard motors and also fly, perhaps a place like Seneca isn't the right place to learn that stuff either. But then where does the griping from everyone else when a company like Air Canada specifically lists "Aviation College" as a desired qualification come from? That is what the program is designed for- turning out pilots that know the basics of operating in a large airline environment.
I would sum it up with which type of training has the advantage over the other;
1. First job, up north, ramp work, etc.- Local flying club
2. Airline job, later on in career, - Aviation college
The more experience the better, for a teacher. But no I dont' think a person would get a well-rounded enough education on the academic side if they learned every subject from the same instructor. College wins in that each instructor is typically a specialist in his/her field.
Tids,
I concede that point to you. But I guess this brings it back to the basic point that most college grads are criticized for- which is non-core pilot extras (like having a personality
). Perhaps a Seneca grad who learned everything from an SOP, airline style training course is not the ideal person to hire to do camp work or whatever. But then the employer should know that and look for someone more suited like maybe calling up Joe's feedlot. Then maybe it is the pilot's fault too for choosing the wrong school- hey if they wanted to build outhouses and fix outboard motors and also fly, perhaps a place like Seneca isn't the right place to learn that stuff either. But then where does the griping from everyone else when a company like Air Canada specifically lists "Aviation College" as a desired qualification come from? That is what the program is designed for- turning out pilots that know the basics of operating in a large airline environment.
I would sum it up with which type of training has the advantage over the other;
1. First job, up north, ramp work, etc.- Local flying club
2. Airline job, later on in career, - Aviation college
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scotothedoublet
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That's a fairly broad generalization. I agree that formal education probably helps when applying for an airline job, but what about attending a local flying club while working on a degree. What about formal programs like Chicoutimi and Confed that are geared towards floats. I think that where you build your first couple thousand hours probably has way more to do with professional development than where you learned to shoot a B/C. Let's face it, a 200 hr flying monkey is a 200 hr flying monkey...attitude is key IMO.I would sum it up with which type of training has the advantage over the other;
1. First job, up north, ramp work, etc.- Local flying club
2. Airline job, later on in career, - Aviation college
Last edited by scotothedoublet on Fri May 20, 2005 8:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
I'm something of an airline pilot and I hold a university degree. However, I did not go to aviation college. In fact, I learned to fly at, good heavens, a flight school. Now, our friend above honestly seems to think that I am not quite as qualified to do my job as the holder of a certificate from Seneca community college is. That is beyond ridiculous and goes far to highlight the serious attitude problem that these real-life Manchurian Candidates bring with them into the industry.
Anyone who really believes that they are a superior pilot because a professor (I've seen adds for Seneca College 'professors' in the Toronto Sun) read parts of Handling the Big Jets to them in class should seriously consider getting off the pipe.
p.s I hate the Toronto Sun with a passion and never read it. The add was shown to me by one of my less discerning colleagues.
Anyone who really believes that they are a superior pilot because a professor (I've seen adds for Seneca College 'professors' in the Toronto Sun) read parts of Handling the Big Jets to them in class should seriously consider getting off the pipe.
p.s I hate the Toronto Sun with a passion and never read it. The add was shown to me by one of my less discerning colleagues.
