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Engine Oil Samples

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1000 HP

Post subject: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 5:56 am

Rank 8

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:00 pm
Posts: 874
Location: South-East Asia

Hello Mechanics,

I've got a Mooney with a Lycoming IO-360-1A1. It's oil consumption is fairly good at .5 litres per 5 hours. (I think anyways). Prior to the previous owner passing away, it was very well maintained as the fellow had a good income.

For the last 5 years it has been flown very little maybe a max of 10 hrs per year. It runs great. Has 76,76,78,78 compression, and runs an oil pressure at the gauge of 72 psi.

I'd like to send an oil sample away for analysis at the next oil change just to see what it comes up with. Just a little preventative maintenance. I live in Lloydminster, AB. Edmonton would be my first choice.

Any suggestions for where I can send it?
How much do they charge?

1000 HP

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Valkyrie_XB70

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 11:33 am

Rank 2

Joined: Thu Jul 03, 2008 1:50 am
Posts: 65

We use Wearcheck (http://www.wearcheck.com/), seem to be good to deal with. I can't tell you about pricing though, it's not something I deal with that part is left for the bean counters.

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Colonel Sanders

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:23 pm

Rank 11

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 4193
Location: Over Macho Grande

I personally am not in the camp of people that think oil analysis
is a good use of money.

Quote:

For the last 5 years it has been flown very little

Oh boy. You need to watch your pressure screen for metal, like
a hawk. If you have an oil filter, you must buy the tool and cut
your filters open to inspect for metal. This is NOT optional for
you.

If it was me, I would want to get an eyeball on that Lycoming's
cam lobes and lifters. Probably before I bought it.

Another sign of lobe/lifter problems is a loss of power, despite
good compression.

FWIW run oil with the additive required by the AD on the "H"
engines. These include Aeroshell 15w50 (winter) and Aeroshell
100wplus (summer). Some people are nuts for the camguard
additive, too. A whole 'nother story.

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cgzro

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Mon May 07, 2012 12:59 pm

Rank 8

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:45 pm
Posts: 837
Location: ottawa/gatineau

+1

Any magnetic stuff in the screen is likely comming from the front lifters which spald. They drop little flakes onto the cylinder skirts which causes some scratching and blowby/fouling.

First signs are oil getting dirty quicky, and bottom plugs fouling regularly. You'll see scratches in the cylinder walls if you look through the plugs. Then it gets worse and the top plugs foul to. Compressions can still be quite good.

Be good to have a look at the lifter faces if possible. I.e. pull the number one.

Peter

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1000 HP

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:45 am

Rank 8

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:00 pm
Posts: 874
Location: South-East Asia

Thanks for the tips. She's running good and oil is staying clean. I am making my last payment next month. Took 16 months to pay off. So if I need an engine, like I said, I'll put the turbo upgrade on it. Expensive for sure but worth it for the speed at altitude. No bads signs yet and I know my mechanic checked the filter and found nothing. I'll be flying out to Winnipeg early in June and then Abbotsford later in the month. I'll do the oil analysis after those runs. If nothing shows up she should be good. If not, I'll help the mechanic yank the cylinder. I'm also going to let an oldtimer high time friend use it when I am out of country to keep it working.

Thanks for all the helpful advice

1000 HP

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cgzro

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 4:01 am

Rank 8

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:45 pm
Posts: 837
Location: ottawa/gatineau

Oh, if you do do oil analysis you really can't just do one or two. Best bet is to do them regularly, its the trends that matter. I did actually do oil analysis religiously when I got my plane and for 100hrs it was fine, then I saw a few spikes in the iron which went away but nothing in the filter. Then a few more spikes, went away. This continued for a few hundred hours and then I started getting small flakes of magnetic in the oil screen. Funny thing was that once it started actually making metal there was no real change in the oil analysis!!The metal was not too horrible for another 50 hours or so (5-10 small flakes), at which point I got a fairly good amount at one change (40-50 flakes) before my annual and it was starting now to foul both top/bottom plugs at that point my mechanic said pull the jug and ...

Anyway the bottom line for me was that the oil analysis was not really very helpful since it did not immediately preceed a problem, it just kind of hinted there was something wrong a while before it showed up and when it showed up it was pretty clear very quickly without oil analysis.

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1000 HP

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 5:11 am

Rank 8

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:00 pm
Posts: 874
Location: South-East Asia

Thanks for all the scary tips :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

I guess I'll fly her for a few more months and if nothing falls off (like the prop), I'll spend some time this fall looking at the innards. If it comes to that, a turbo-charger is in the future. Any shops in Canada that do the conversion on the IO-360 specifically for a Mooney? I'm assuming that an STC is required.

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Colonel Sanders

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 12:31 pm

Rank 11

Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:17 am
Posts: 4193
Location: Over Macho Grande

Quote:

once it started actually making metal there was no real change in the oil analysis!!

Q.E.D. I think you're far better off spending your time looking
for metal in the oil filter or pressure screen.

Quote:

Any shops in Canada that do the conversion on the IO-360 specifically for a Mooney?

I would strongly suspect it would be more economical to do it in the USA, at a shop that specializes in this work.

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1000 HP

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Tue May 08, 2012 3:18 pm

Rank 8

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:00 pm
Posts: 874
Location: South-East Asia

Thanks Colonel. I've been checking for metal. Nothing yet. I'm hoping it works out. I'll spend a little more with a borescope and a mechanic looking for the little scratches in the cylinders. I'm sure a mechanic will know what to look for. Maybe I got lucky. I spend some time over the rockies now and then. I'll still a pair of hiking boots in the back before I make my next trip in June. :rolleyes:

:rolleyes:

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helicopterray

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 1:20 am

Rank 3

Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:59 am
Posts: 124

We've been using Finning.

The diesel Cat's use the same program to monitor oils. Cost was around $50 last time I checked. Finning will provide you with a small container with a form to fill out to track hours/cycles on the component at time of sample.

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1000 HP

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 2:19 am

Rank 8

Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2004 4:00 pm
Posts: 874
Location: South-East Asia

Sounds great. For $50 it's worth the effort. I'll get a sample when I come home. I used to run trucks and they could tell you from the type of metal what part of the engine it came from. I just never thought they would do it for airplanes. Like I said, we've seen nothing yet, but I do fly over the mountains with my family on board. Worth the extra maintenance.

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CpnCrunch

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 3:50 pm

Rank 7

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:38 pm
Posts: 729

I've used Blackstone Labs and their service is excellent. They only charge $25, and they know about aircraft. Finning seems to be specific to Cat.

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cgzro

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Wed May 09, 2012 5:44 pm

Rank 8

Joined: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:45 pm
Posts: 837
Location: ottawa/gatineau

To make the most of an analysis you need to know the metalurgy of the engine.
IIRC Lycoming would give opinions based on the results and the known metalurgy of their parts.

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helicopterray

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:05 am

Rank 3

Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2010 3:59 am
Posts: 124

Quote:

Finning seems to be specific to Cat.

Not at all. It is an analysis of the oil, and they give you a read out of metallic particles in the oil in parts per million. You monitor the particles, and if you see a spike of a certain type of metal, you can use that information to figure out what's coming apart, whether it's a gear, or bearing, or bearing cage.

Finning doesn't know or care what the sample is coming from, they just tell you what's in it.

http://www.finning.ca/services/machine_ ... fault.aspx

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CpnCrunch

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 11:52 pm

Rank 7

Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2010 5:38 pm
Posts: 729

My point is that Blackstone does know and care about aircraft engines, and they can give you advice based on that knowledge.

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hangarline

Post subject: Re: Engine Oil Samples

Posted: Fri May 11, 2012 2:52 am

Rank 2

Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:22 pm
Posts: 67

Here is a link to an informative website and in particular the subject of oil sampling. There is some straightforward information there that I think will help everyone who is either doing oil sampling or considering doing it.
http://www.sacskyranch.com/cancut2.htm

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