East Coast Tail Wheel Check outs/Rental

[V1VRV2]

Hi Guys

Im thinking of buying a small Tailwheel AC and offering Check outs and perhaps Rentals to relatively experienced pilots. What do you think the market for this would be ? I would also offer the AC for extended XC and time building.

This is in the Halifax Area.

Thanks for your inputs.

[Cat Driver]

As long as you make sure they are competent and you put in place reasonable rules for renting and have sufficient insurance coverage you will be O.K.

Also do not plan on offering low rates or you will not be O.k.

[V1VRV2]

Hi Cat

Ok I am certainly planning to charge a fair rate, of course the insurance is a factor and they will probably have a big say on min qualifications, and currency.

And yes I will have rules regarding max Xwind, airports, ect...

Thanks for the input
BTW what do you think of a T-Craft or maybe an Aeronca Chief or Champ as an entry level taildragger.



Regards

[Cat Driver]

Any of the three are excellent.

A cub would also be excellent, but they are more expensive to buy.

[Cat Driver]

And yes I will have rules regarding max Xwind, airports, ect...

Max crosswinds are way down on the need to worry about list of things to consider.

A properly trained and thoughtful pilot will not have any real problem with x/winds as they will know their own limitations.

Your biggest concern will be who does your training / check outs on your airplane.

Hint::::

Being the holder of a flight instructor rating does not automatically mean the person is a tail wheel instructor.

[V1VRV2]

Hi Cat


I totally agree with you im not necessarily looking for a flt instructor as I understand the CAR's you don't to be an instructor to give TW training, so a competent experienced pilot can do it. but im sure I'll have my work cut out to deal with TC!

wish me luck, and yes a Cub would be great but they are quite a bit more to purchase.

[Cat Driver]

If your airplane is privately registered and you wish to rent it you do not need an O.C. from TC.

Also the person doing the check rides does not need to hold an instructors rating, they only need to have a pilots license applicable to the type of airplane they are doing the check out on.

Where it gets tricky is if the pilot is doing the check out for pay....in which case the pilot would need to be the holder of a commercial pilots license or higher.

Also you do not need to have your maintenance done at a AMO.

WARNING!!!!

My advice may be incorrect as I am only going on how the rules worked when I operated airplanes in the Socialist Republic of Canada and that was over twenty years ago.

Not to worry though if my advice is wrong someone more up to date will correct me.

[Grantmac]

a 115HP 7ECA is just about the easiet cheap TW aircraft to fly. Plus you don't have as much to worry about weight as the really little ones do.
You could also look at a PA-20, not as easy to fly but VERY rugged and capable.

-Grant

[trey kule]

A bit of a drift,but what is the typical useful load and fuel capacity of a champ on wheels?
PM me if you like.

[5x5]

I'm not trying to be pessimistic, although as I read this it could certainly seem that way. Just want to bring up some things to think about. Take it for what it's worth.

As always, . has provided some very good advice. One thing to consider is why you are thinking of doing this? If it is primarily to make money then it is going to be very difficult to succeed. You actually need a lot of flying to take place each month just to cover the sunk costs - insurance, storage, general maintenance and whatever business costs you may have. Not sure of your exact business plan but likely in the range of 20hours a month just to break even. Are there enough folks out there to support that volume - each and every month?

If you're getting the airplane anyway and just want to subsidize it a bit and don't mind the wear and tear that renters will cause, then it might work well. Rest assured, that no matter how discriminating you are, renters will not treat the airplane as well as you. And if you are really picky on who you rent to, there is no way you will get the volume you need.

a 115HP 7ECA is just about the easiet cheap TW aircraft to fly.

+1 and maintenance on these is as reasonable as you will find as well.

And keep in mind that you are using an airplane that has some designed instability during ground operations. Although many people have flown thousands of hours on tailwheels with no incidents at all, dealing with renters and folks transitioning to conventional gear means that you are going to be dealing with pilots that are the most likely to have an incident due to lack of familiarity and experience. A ground loop or two and you can find insurance costs going up dramatically.

[Slappy the Squirrel]

Always nice to see someone else trying to promote GA in the Halifax area... Where are you planning on operating this aircraft? In the past YHZ International has not been very welcoming to private owners/flight schools. Although there are a couple good flying clubs within an hour.
I would think that you would have a hard time competing with the rental rates at Waterville and Debert, since they have more aircraft and members to dissipate costs a bit. I would think people will likely only rent your aircraft if it is more convenient to the city and/or for people who are looking specifically for a tailwheel aircraft (of whom they are few and far between). If you are looking to make money, just be careful. If you are in it solely for the fun, have at 'er!

[V1VRV2]

Well first of all thanks to all who have posted a reply I appreciate the feedback.

Cat
I sure will be talking to TC and getting their opinion ! and yes I plan to register it Private and have at least a commercial pilot do the check outs, I am only looking to rent the AC to offset some of my fixed costs not looking to make i living with this.

Also I will be quite particular of who I will rent to both with regards to proficiency and handling.
Ideally I would like to find someone to share the AC but if that doesn't happen I still plan on getting one.

As for rental rates as the AC is a specialty type, insurance, maintenance,ect... is rather expensive I will need to charge a fair price most likely pretty close to a 172 rental rates from the flying clubs in the area.
I haven't chosen the base of operation but im leaning to either Stanley a grass field or Debert as I live closer to those. Also it would be possible to bring the airplane to Halifax for a few days in order to make it more convenient to potential renters, however im looking for people who want the enjoyment of classic TW flying who can afford to rent or commercial students who need to build time and want a fun airplane to fly.

Again thanks for the comments keep them coming.

[Grantmac]

Too bad you aren't on the left coast because I'm looking to do a partnership in my PA-16. Oh well, I'm sure we'll both find the right sort of people.

Cheers,
Grant

[V1VRV2]

Hi Grant

Yes the best of luck to you as well.

Hope to get this going soon btw do you rent your ac?

[iflyforpie]

I'd charge more than 172 rates. Flight schools can charge low because they make it up on volume--specifically dual instruction. Unless you are selling several large blocks, you will essentially be providing a public service.

Another vote for the 115 HP Citabria. They are very roomy, have good visibility even from the back, and are quite docile as far as taildraggers go.

[V1VRV2]

Hi

As far as the rate I haven't done all the calculations yet im still in the process, Also if I want to have a few regulars who would use the ac on a regular basis I need to be realistic. As the AC is only a 2 seater and burns less than a 172 or cherookee I can't necessarily justify a higher rate.
Anyways we'll see how things progress and I can always adjust if I need to.

Thanks for the input...

[Grantmac]

Hi Grant

Yes the best of luck to you as well.

Hope to get this going soon btw do you rent your ac?

Nope, gonna go fractional or solo. I don't want the paper mess of dealing with renters, plus I'd never let anyone without a vested interest use the plane. Defraying costs is secondary, I'm mainly interested in someone to keep it running right while I'm away with work for months on end. If the end result is cheaper flying then good.

-Grant

[V1VRV2]

Hey Grant


That's what id like in the long run a partner but not just anyone, that's why im looking to rent to various people first then maybe after I get to know someone and see them operate . I'll feel comfortable enough to share ,

I work rotation as well and go away for awhile and then get back home for my fun.

Keep in touch id hope to meat up someday
ps I get to YVR once in while.

[Grantmac]

Hey Grant


That's what id like in the long run a partner but not just anyone, that's why im looking to rent to various people first then maybe after I get to know someone and see them operate . I'll feel comfortable enough to share ,

I work rotation as well and go away for awhile and then get back home for my fun.

Keep in touch id hope to meat up someday
ps I get to YVR once in while.

I will be based out of YYJ by mid-Sept. Look me up if you come this way.