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Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Moderators: bandaid, sky's the limit, lilfssister, ahramin, Sulako, just curious, weather, sepia

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cncpc

Post subject: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:26 pm

Rank 5

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:17 pm
Posts: 350

http://www.vancouversun.com/news/Three+ ... story.html

It seems it was a Bailey Helicopters machine doing training.

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luckyboy

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 5:05 pm

Rank 3

Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 2:48 pm
Posts: 124

Condolences to the families. Losing three more pilots like this, on a training mission... what a tragedy. The issue of having a 3rd pilot onboard to benefit from the observation has been commented on before, and I personnally hate jumping the seat in that fashion. Reminds me of the Seneca College fatal accident of 3 pilots also on a training mission, and other similar cases in the past. I know it is common practice in the training role and many defend it but I dislike it immensely, even if it saves money or helps somewhat in learning.

As to what happened, well we wont know for quite a while but weather was reported as poor. That alone is enough to get us thinking real hard until the TSB comes up with their findings next year.

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Heliian

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Sat Jun 02, 2012 7:39 pm

Rank 6

Joined: Wed Apr 29, 2009 10:14 pm
Posts: 444

Our industry has suffered another terrible tragedy and I send my condolences to all.

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2550

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:28 am

Rank 2

Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 9:25 pm
Posts: 86

My condolences to the families as well.

I guess i missed the thread you mention discussing the third person in the back for training. Just wondering why you figure it adds to risk?

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Gogona

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:11 am

Rank 3

Joined: Mon Jan 11, 2010 10:41 pm
Posts: 129

2550 wrote:

My condolences to the families as well.
I guess i missed the thread you mention discussing the third person in the back for training. Just wondering why you figure it adds to risk?

Well, I have the similar point of view.
I know nothing about exactly this heli flight, but generally, flying as a passenger on the back seat in known challenging weather conditions with another student pilot at the controls is unnecessary risk. It just doesn't worth that. Do I really need to expand my opinion?

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200hr Wonder

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 9:25 am

Rank 10

Joined: Tue Apr 26, 2005 9:52 pm
Posts: 2057
Location: CYVR

Guys who said anyone was a student pilot? Bailey is a working heli company not a flight training outfit. The guys at the controls where commercial heli pilots and either doing initial PPC or recurrent training. A far cry from 3 PPL holders working on commercial licenses like Seneca, or other flight training operating with a third wheel in the back. Lets keep this on track.

Condolences to the three families who are suffering a great deal of pain at this time.

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sky's the limit

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:15 pm

Rank Moderator

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:38 pm
Posts: 4421
Location: Now where's the starter button on this thing???

Thoughts and condolences go out to all at Bailey, friends and family. It is always extremely sad when we lose somebody.

For those of you who do not fly helicopts, or are fairly low time, the practice of conducting company training, recurrent PPC or mountain, is not only common it is extremely beneficial. I think it is awfully premature to start debating the merits of this practice given we know nothing of the circumstances of this accident.

Sad day once again. Fly safe out there.

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cncpc

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:26 pm

Rank 5

Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2010 6:17 pm
Posts: 350

To 200 and STL. Well said!

It is no more or less dangerous being the observer than it is being any other passenger.

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petpad

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:02 pm

Rank 2

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:59 pm
Posts: 84

Last edited by petpad on Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sky's the limit

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:28 pm

Rank Moderator

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:38 pm
Posts: 4421
Location: Now where's the starter button on this thing???

Pet,

It seems to me your opinion is based on either limited experience with good training, or on a lack of exposure to the scenario you're commenting on.

This is not like conducting training on revenue flights, dead legs, or otherwise as is often done in fixed wing ops, in aircraft where the third pilot is unable to see what is happening. In the mountain environment or on more complex machines there can be great benefits to the observing pilot. Particularly in an Astar or Medium where the observer can watch all aspects of the flight, in the 206/407, i would agree there is limited value. When you are the pilot flying during training there is a level of overload that is reached, and given that we in the rotary world do not generally have access to sims where we are able to record, play back, and analyse performance, and we almost always fly alone, it is on occasion a very valuable tool to use.

Not to mention it has ZERO to do with economics.

I am uncertain how you can be so bold as to say it is unequivocally all about economics when the company must train each pilot to the required standard, whether they observe as a third pilot or not? There is no cost benefit to the operator whatsoever, contrary to your statement. Is it a risk? Of course, every time we leave the ground there is a risk involved, but I would submit that in certain instances it is far more beneficial in the long term than forgoing the opportunity. There are a great many ills inflicted on pilots by companies all through our industry, but I can't add this situation to that list.

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2.5milefinal

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:42 am

Rank 4

Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:39 pm
Posts: 215

My Condolences to all those involved...sad times.

And for those that think its unsafe (or whatever) to have a third pilot observe and learn. All I can say is you better not come to the place I work. Not only do we do it all the time but its in our training manual/SOPs.

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tiggermoth

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 12:46 am

Rank 4

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 7:00 am
Posts: 211
Location: little bit west, little bit north

I am an employee of Bailey Helicopters. Friday morning we all lost not only 3 co-workers, but 3 friends as well. On behalf of all of us here, I thank you for your kind words.

Unfortunately, I am not able to share much of the information I do know at the moment. It is much to early to know what went wrong, just that the weather was not the best.

I am hoping that in the next few days we will be able to provide more details.

Thank You.

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petpad

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:32 am

Rank 2

Joined: Thu Feb 16, 2006 1:59 pm
Posts: 84

Last edited by petpad on Tue Jul 10, 2012 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tiggermoth

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 1:37 am

Rank 4

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 7:00 am
Posts: 211
Location: little bit west, little bit north

Thanks Pet. I edited my post a bit

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sky's the limit

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 2:24 am

Rank Moderator

Joined: Sat Jan 22, 2005 7:38 pm
Posts: 4421
Location: Now where's the starter button on this thing???

Hi Pet,

No worries, it seems we probably have more in common than not on these subjects, but the medium is not the best sometimes. PM coming your way.

On that note, after a quick note from Tigermoth I think it best if we keep this thread for condolences for the three people involved and all those affected by this terrible accident. If a discussion on training is something we want to follow up on, perhaps someone can start a topic in Flight Training where it will be more appropriate.

Once again, all the best to those involved.

Stl

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2550

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:51 am

Rank 2

Joined: Thu May 31, 2012 9:25 pm
Posts: 86

Agreed. Sorry. Not the time or place.

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tiggermoth

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Mon Jun 04, 2012 6:08 pm

Rank 4

Joined: Sat May 05, 2007 7:00 am
Posts: 211
Location: little bit west, little bit north

I believe I can share just a little bit more of what we know, which will hopefully help a little bit with some understanding. Obviously we do not have any idea of what went wrong, and won't for a while yet.

The third person in the aircraft was not a pilot, he was one of our engineers. We are not certain, but what we have been able to figure from their flight itinerary they went out to familiarize the second pilot with the terrain around the Terrace area, and the engineer was along as they were going to be heading to a location after for some presentations in which he was to be involved.

Thank you again for the kind words.

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iflyforpie

Post subject: Re: Three fatalities in helicopter accident near Terrace

Posted: Tue Jun 05, 2012 7:56 pm

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