flying over the rockies, vfr, light twin, early summer

[fche]

I'm a >1000hr flatlander CPL/MIFR Aztec pilot. I'm trying to set expectations with my passengers (family) about hopping over the rockies in early summer. Being new to mountain flying, and having a few days' buffer, I plan to try it only if weather is great (low winds, apprx SKC), over the top at 10,000ft or so, YQL to YVR direct or following the roads, loaded 5% below gross. (By default, we'd drive instead.)

Can someone point to or share some information about the rough likelihood of finding great weather conditions? From the NavCanada local weather guide, beginning-of-summer looks promising.

[buck82]

I'll keep my post brief. Basically fly the road. It will be the safest and is a great place to set down if one of your engines bags out. Before you start cutting corners (with your family in tow) just ask yourself where you would put down if the engine failed right now. Other than that, enjoy the flight! With planning it will be a great trip.

[beaverbob]

Here is a little information.
I will add more when I can find it.
Bob
http://selair.selkirk.ca/Training/fligh ... Flying.pdf

http://www.navcanada.ca/NavCanada.asp?L ... efault.xml

[iflyforpie]

Finding a good day to go is easy. Look for one or more huge H's on the GFA, SKCs, and province-wide isobars.

The problem is coming back several days later. Usually weather systems come in waves every week or so, so if it was good coming, it probably won't be good going and vice versa.

Also, it's not one mountain range you have to cross. The Rockies are several smaller ranges, then there are the Purcells if you are south of the #1, the Selkirks, the Monashees, the rolling hills of the Interior Plateaus, and finally the Cascades or the Coastal Ranges. Each separates areas of greatly different weather, typically with large amounts of cloud and precipitation on the western side of the Coast, Selkirk, and Purcell ranges and high winds on the eastern side of the Coast and Rocky Mountain ranges.

I keep an eye on the Public Forecast and the GOES satellite imagery for a general idea of what things are going to do in the next three days (beyond that it is pointless). All of my long distance flying decisions are usually made on the day of.

If you want guaranteed good weather, you have to wait for September.

[Aug]

I agree with the above poster's suggestion of some mountain flying courses. For those of us in BC almost everyone goes through a one-day mountain flying introduction once the PPL is done....

A friend and I flew to Springbank last year during the Canada Day long weekend: Abbotsford - Nelson - Lethbridge - Springbank on the way up and Springbank - Lethbridge - Kelowna - Abbotsford on the way back. We did the flight in a C-172 and flew at 11 500 there and 10 500 on the way back (and we had O₂ as well). We did this for our 300 XC.

One piece of advice I have is to do the flight as high as you can and also fly with a good road in sight at all times (we used the Crowsnest highway). We had flight following all the way with Vancover and Edmonton Centres. Although we did not have radar coverage for a good chunk (lost between Cranbrook and Sparwood) we were always in contact with someone and gave a position report every half hour or so, just for peace of mind if anything else.

It was an amazing flight... glass smooth both ways... what an adventure!

[co-joe]

Do the mountain course at the Club or through a good freelance instructor. Most of the peaks in the rockies are around 9000' so 10 000 doesn't give you enough room to cross very many of them, that said I've done it in a C-150 so if you pick and choose your days it can be done. Follow the roads. Pure and simple. Unless you have O2 and can go higher just follow the VFR route and you will love the flight.

[North Shore]

Second starting earlier in the AM. Much smoother.

[BGH]

I've made the trip many times in my 185.IFR 11000 on G1 to ervyn then 13000 on v300 to Lethbridge(east) Westbound it's 12000 on v300 back to ervyn & then G1 the rest of the way to Hope & then what ever arrival path is in use that day.

For vfr I've made the trip westbound on a good day at 9500 & eastbound at 8500.You can maneuver around the tall stuff & not venture to far from the roads below.Good advice to go early,it can get lumpy in the afternoon & weather can become a serious problem in the summer.

It can be a very scenic trip.

Daryl

[fche]

Thanks y'all for the advice. We opted to land at Springbank and drive, due to my inexperience and (now expected) far-less-than-perfect weather.

[Rookie50]

I did my first real mountain flight leg; through part of the colorado Rockies; west to east. What I did and what I learned: This is after a little dual time in Montana on a different trip; and taking the AOPA Mtn course online; plus asking a bunch of folks much more experienced than I:

1. Do it in the morning; make sure it is not too hot; winds light -- upper winds no more than 20 - 25 kts; have a nice wide valley under you -- hopefully and likely with a road; try to fly high enough to be in radar contact or at least make position reports; have tons of gas; watch the weather closely -- needs to be SKC or close. Fly always on the upwind side of the valley -- never in the centre!

2. I was well planned -- Colorado has much higher terrain than BC -- I knew my route; alternate airports; ect, and had tested my AC to the altitude I wanted over flat land first. I did most of the flight at 11500 in a Cutlass --- except crossed the one high pass at 12,300 at the eastern exit. (pass was about 10,600) I had no difficulties except I made a fuel stop deep in the mountians; then took off towards the downwind side of the mountains -- about 10 miles away -- and AC was quite reluctant to climb until I turned back towards the upwind side. Lesson there and in density altitude too -- even in March!

11000 there only gets you nice and high above the valley -- terrain rises to 15 -16000. IFR routing is out of the question in any low performance AC. I likely would'nt even try it down there in the summer in that AC; some of the airports in the valley are above 7000 elevation.

[CpnCrunch]

Thanks y'all for the advice. We opted to land at Springbank and drive, due to my inexperience and (now expected) far-less-than-perfect weather.

Good call. However you should definitely do some mountain flying - if the weather is good, it's an amazing experience.

Also, you may find it less bumpy flying through the valleys (along the VFR routes) rather than going a few thousand feet over the top.

[shamrock104]

Just did some Mountain flying out of Invermere, highly recommended.

[oldtimer]

A good call stopping when in doubt. But the Aztec has a good reserve of performance that flights in good weather are a piece of cake.
I used to live in Pincher Creek and have flown thru the Crowsnest many times. A fantastic trip in good weather but a real bitch in low cloud and reduced vis. Biggest concern through the Crowsnest are the strong Chinook winds. Turbulance has broken a few airplanes that attempted the pass low level. I did it 12,000 and above in the wind and it is not too bad. If you see torn up looking clouds and roll clouds jammed up against the mountains near the Frank slide, either stay away or approach the mouth of the pass at an angle so you can chicken out halfway. Watch out for downdrafts that can exceed your ability to climb but that usually happens when the winds are over 30 Kts. The weather office in Pincher Creek had a standard wind recorder that recorded winds to 50 knots and ran 24-7 but at night when the station was unattended, they had a switch which recorded winds at 1/2 the strength. I saw a recording of a peak wind gust @ 55 knots(110knots). 35 to 40 knots is considered a fresh breeze. Be careful over the Porkpine Hills west of Claresholm in the wind. Downdrafts can match your best rate of climb so head East to avoid. Everyone is afraid of the strong winds but the only real problem is at the entrance to the Crowsnest Pass. Once past Blairmore, it is clear sailing. If it is VFR and winds 20 kts, or less, a piece of cake. Same can be said of the Rogers Pass thru Banff and Golden
Before attemting, I would practice a few minimum radius turns at a safe altitude. Just slow to approach speed, drop approach flap and make a nice gentle turn. The valleys are wide enough to turn around in if required. The higher the better because the valleys get wider higher up. Most pilots make the mistake of attempting something dumb like a stall turn or a high speed steep turn. Slow and steady is best.

[cybwarrow]

I fly this route all the time in a turbo arrow so here it goes as the safest way to do this weather permitting with H press systems of course. springbank south at about 10500 angle sw at about longview plot your course and follow your charts to cranbrook but cutting off early over towards kimberly and the over st marys over crawford bay before crawford bay you will see two ways to do this north which is a little winding but lower and direct which is southern but more direct to nelson,no over the hill there the lake is right there and you will get some bumps due to the vertical rise when the wind hits that face so dont do this if wind over 35knts its a gooder. continue to just north path of nelson but visible off left wing and direct penticton then princeton hope boundry bay. this route has plenty of roads,coalmines,airports and other places to glide if an issue arises and is way faster then road following. check the winds at nakiska ridge before going as its a pretty good indicator of whats there. 400 plus hours in the rockies alone and this route plain works plus you can stop in penticton for some fruit and a swim. also best to do in the morning before summer convectives start up about 11 am 10 over penticton clouds start forming at about 1 pm and by 3-4 can get plentiful near ab border on ridge of rocks. fly safe hope this helps

[Rockie]

While a pilot must have the utmost respect for the mountains when flying in them there is absolutely no reason to fear them.

Most people who have never flown through there before still think in terms of going A to B direct which may work fine on some routes in excellent weather, but bring it down a little and you will get in trouble with that mind set. Not only will you be forced to get down into the terrain without being mentally prepared for it, but you will be denying yourself a very large chunk of perfectly flyable weather conditions not to mention an extremely enjoyable experience.

As a previous poster mentioned get to know your airplane in the slow flight regime and learn to do a proper minimum radius turn paying attention to just how small that radius can be. Plan your route over one of the many published VFR routes if you've never been there before (once you're experienced the possibilities are endless) and stick to them because the navigating is ridiculously easy. FSS should also have detailed weather briefings at their fingertips for the published routes.

Do not be afraid to fly through the mountains as opposed to over them if there is a ceiling at around 6-7000 feet. That altitude is enough to get you comfortably over any passes on any of the published routes, and as long as visibilities are good with little precipitation you should have no problems at all. Caveat: Bear in mind some valley configurations can cause a buildup of lower ceilings and precipitation on the windward side. Rogers Pass is a classic example of that. There are some airports in BC where you can fly around VFR all day long under the cloud but the weather will be below IFR minimums.

Speaking of "all day long"...DO NOT get caught out in the mountains past sundown VFR unless you are very experienced at it.

Be aware of where your diversion airfields are in case the weather closes in ahead of you, and if at all possible do not let it close in behind you without having another suitable and reachable airport to divert to if necessary. Look as far ahead of you where you're going as you can and always always have a place to turn around in before you stick your nose in someplace. If you do have to turn around do it as high as you can to give you more space between you and the immovable rocks. If it's very windy...stay on the ground. Mountain valleys funnel and increase the wind velocity, and they create at times very turbulent conditions around corners and over ridges.

Give yourself time. If you absolutely, positively gotta be there take a commercial flight or drive. I've lost count of the times I've left airplanes someplace because of weather and had to go back and retrieve it later.

I learned to fly in the heart of the BC mountains and my time there ranks as the most enjoyable flying I've ever done. Given a choice I would never choose to fly over them unless I was in a real hurry. It is infinitely more enjoyable to fly through them.