Walk Away

[Rockie]

Well, speak for yourself but I'm not just a cost unit. I am a CUIC (Cost Unit In Command). Pronounced "cuke".

Then of course we have the CUSIC and RCU.

[Stu Pidasso]

They used to love to tell newhires; "You have joined the NHL of Aviation." Now you are watching a rerun of Slapshot.

This is the AHL, back of the bus sonny.

...the NHL moved to Calgary.

[ikarus]

For $37,000 / year you too can come join the fun and be a "Cost Unit, that needs to be reduced."

Maybe a guy should amend the PA, from "This is your Captain," to "This is your Cost Unit?"

I think you guys should identify yourself at least little bit to the public, like adding in your employee number to your Cost Unit PA announcement.

To answer you question Johnny about the WJ gate agent salary disclosure....it happened by chance, as the guy working the gate was from the same background as I am.. We chatted for a bit, and as I have relatives working for AC he said that he made that much with overtime. I know it could be inflated, but what does he has to prove to me??? I know at AC with overtime, gate and ramp (lead agents) can pull in well over 65K!!

[chatman]

Air Canada is getting far behind with Westjet wages for licensed mechanics

Westjet AME makes 39.47 and by 2016 it will be 43.11
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8154

AC AME is just over 32.00 an hour

http://iam140.ca/userfiles/file/Collect ... nglais.pdf

[mbav8r]

I'm extremely happy that you get a taste of your own medicine, afterall it was you, the pilot group who demanded, we at Jazz should be a lower priority. Now that I've had a taste of it, I only wish there were more managers in the B group then there are, Karma is a real bitch! Enjoy!

I only wish we had that kind of pull at AC. We can't even get a crew meal boarded without calling Montreal. Do you really think the company changed the pass priority because we "demanded" it? Perhaps I missed it, but I never saw a single memo, vote, poll or even a mention of this "demand"from our union.

Can you please show it to us?

I guess you weren't in the room during the road show for TA1 last year, you know, the one were CR promised to all the pilots that he would change pass travel priorities to Jazz employees within a year. True to his word, he did it. Unless a very good friend lied to me, he was in the room for CR's presentation. We were told by our management that initially it was all Jazz employees and what we ended up with was negotiated.
Now to be fair they weren't changed just because you wanted it, they were changed because you wanted it and CR figured he could exploit it to his advantage, enter the new B priority, that would not likely have happened without your precedent setting changes.
I have heard, strictly hearsay, that the pilot group has been trying to get their own B priority over all AC employees, guess you'll need an A now

[AutoPilot Off]

MBav8r, for christs sake enough already with the snively posts. Enough already with turning every thread under the sun into about Jazz.

[bcflyer]

I'm extremely happy that you get a taste of your own medicine, afterall it was you, the pilot group who demanded, we at Jazz should be a lower priority. Now that I've had a taste of it, I only wish there were more managers in the B group then there are, Karma is a real bitch! Enjoy!

I only wish we had that kind of pull at AC. We can't even get a crew meal boarded without calling Montreal. Do you really think the company changed the pass priority because we "demanded" it? Perhaps I missed it, but I never saw a single memo, vote, poll or even a mention of this "demand"from our union.

Can you please show it to us?

I guess you weren't in the room during the road show for TA1 last year, you know, the one were CR promised to all the pilots that he would change pass travel priorities to Jazz employees within a year. True to his word, he did it. Unless a very good friend lied to me, he was in the room for CR's presentation. We were told by our management that initially it was all Jazz employees and what we ended up with was negotiated.
Now to be fair they weren't changed just because you wanted it, they were changed because you wanted it and CR figured he could exploit it to his advantage, enter the new B priority, that would not likely have happened without your precedent setting changes.
I have heard, strictly hearsay, that the pilot group has been trying to get their own B priority over all AC employees, guess you'll need an A now

I was at the road show for TA1 and I can tell you two things for a fact. First CR was most definitely not there and two there was NO mention of any change in the Jazz travel priority. I think you have been led down the garden path.....

[mbav8r]

AutoPilotoff, I'm sorry I forgot it's all about YOU! The shit that ACPA has done and continues to attempt,that affects my career is very real to me, including the title of this very thread. You know what I do when I don't want to read what someone has posted, they go on the ignore list. Feel free to do that, won't hurt my feelings one bit, otherwise you can Foxtrot Oscar.
bcflyer, was there no video presentation from CR? Were you at the one out West? I ask because I cannot for the life of me figure why a friend of 15 years would lie about something this important. Secondly, even if not true about the road show, you cannot deny that a group of ACPA was lobbying for the pass change. So either way, CR saw an opportunity to further divide the two groups and used it.
I can tell you, it worked, the general feeling before the changes were of trying to figure out how we can work together, now there's a general feeling of joy, watching you all die a slow death from a thousand paper cuts.

[Mig29]

I can tell you, it worked, the general feeling before the changes were of trying to figure out how we can work together, now there's a general feeling of joy, watching you all die a slow death from a thousand paper cuts.

Come on man, you know that's not the general feeling at Jazz!

In my experience there are a lot of guys who just can't listen to the rumors and bs passed along on the flight deck...and sure there is some resentment from the guys here, but there are plenty of guys who want AC to do well so that in turn Jazz continues to be viable. I think there are many more guys who fear the uncertainty and overall hopelessness of our career when they see how AC pilots are being torn apart as time goes on... Guys are in general worried if their pension will be there at the end of the tunnel, but I don't think there is a general hate toward AC guys. As you said, if you don't like my comments just ignore it, but this is what I see on the line

Cheers

[yycflyguy]

CR attending pilot roadshows for TA1? Good one. He has better things to do than sit around for 5 boring union meetings. He most certainly was not at the first YYZ or YUL roadshow and not the second YYZ roadshow... however the police were in attendance for the second YYZ one. Good times.

[Rockie]

It's well known that the original negotiating committee and MEC for TA1 was promoting the company line. But the notion that CR himself could appear at a union roadshow promoting his view of the world in front of this membership without riot police involvement is laughable.

Regarding the us vs them squabbling between ACPA and Jazz......yawn.

Any fellow pilot (Jazz or otherwise) is welcome in my jumpsuit anytime, and I just can't get twisted in knots over priority over a perquisite. Life's too short.

[ywg9]

Wow that is a lot of hate mb. If your that unhappy at jazz leave life is way to short and I imagine it makes your blood pressure high. if you want the passes that bad get an interview and come work here or wj where you will get the passes you want. sorry you feel slighted or that AC is against you its really not its just as they say business your passes just as we are, are a cost unit to the company.

Have a good one all

[Rockie]

Any fellow pilot (Jazz or otherwise) is welcome in my jumpsuit anytime, and I just can't get twisted in knots over priority over a perquisite. Life's too short.

OK, so you're that kind of guy: you need something special in return for the "helping hand"

Sorry, couldn't resist ...

Jeez....stupid Iphone.

[mbav8r]

Geez YWG9, how quickly one forgets where they were less than half a year ago The hate is not really there, I'm just sadistic, however my blood pressure is fine. I still smile and nod to the AC guys in the airport and still get the occasional snubbing, but you're right life is too short. I'm not sure what life would be like without anonymously posting antagonistic statements, very fun you know, try it sometime.
Seriously though, my animosity is directed only at the ones who would have me walking the street in a heartbeat and they know who they are. If you're not one, you shouldn't take offense to anything I say. I'd be a fool to think once CR is done with you guys, that he won't set his sights on us.
I've never said I was unhappy at Jazz, I also don't have this notion the grass is greener on any side of any fence, been doing this for far too long to think that. Too much uncertainty at any of the three majors for me to switch now, yes I'm including Jazz.
I do hope things workout for you, as you took a bit of a risk going there now, but as you say, you have a number and unless AC fails completely(not likely) things should work out in the long haul.
Cheers

[chatman]

Wow that is a lot of hate mb. If your that unhappy at jazz leave life is way to short and I imagine it makes your blood pressure high. if you want the passes that bad get an interview and come work here or wj where you will get the passes you want. sorry you feel slighted or that AC is against you its really not its just as they say business your passes just as we are, are a cost unit to the company.

Have a good one all

The 3 P's....Take one away and the job is not so attractive

[ywg9]

mb i think i just figured out who you are lol. I didnt forget my time at jazz ( i enjoyed my time at jazz too) but, to be honest i was always kinda suprised we got the passes we did considering we really had nothing to do with ac except for the fact we were under contract to provide service. I cant say as i was really supprised when they yanked them. it does suck and i dont wish ill on anyone in the industry my loyalties arent with the logo painted on the tail but with my fellow pilots...unless they are well perhaps working in Canada on a temp work permit. i ment no disrespect with what i said just wasnt sure who you were so angry at. see you on the comute

[Johnny767]

mbav8tv:

You must be a very junior Jazz employee, were the changes not only for people hired after some date...'05' ...rings a bell?

There is plenty of bitching on this side of the tracks, the AC Employee in seat 35B, while J class is full of Jazz Pilots and F/A's.

The AC Employee left behind in the boading lounge, while the Jazz Employee with their wife and kids hop on that nice little vacation to Rome.

Whose the big winner here, the AC Employee getting on a -8 to Kelowna, or the Jazz Employee heading to Beijing?

[mbav8r]

mbav8tv:

You must be a very junior Jazz employee, were the changes not only for people hired after some date...'05' ...rings a bell?

There is plenty of bitching on this side of the tracks, the AC Employee in seat 35B, while J class is full of Jazz Pilots and F/A's.

The AC Employee left behind in the boading lounge, while the Jazz Employee with their wife and kids hop on that nice little vacation to Rome.

Whose the big winner here, the AC Employee getting on a -8 to Kelowna, or the Jazz Employee heading to Beijing?

Johnny767, I'm going to restrain myself from saying what I really feel like saying. When I started with Jazz in 07, it was still Air Canada Jazz and in fact while on day 3 of Jazz orientation week I received the email invitation for an interview with AC. I thanked them and kindly informed them I was at Jazz for the last 3 days and was asked to update my application with that info and they would call me when my "number" came up. Then I find out even if they call me and I am hired I'm frozen for two years at Jazz. During my first couple years at Jazz ACE still owned a large portion of Jazz and it wasn't until they sold the last of the shares that the LOU holding me here was finished. Now with that all said why they picked the day Jazz was put on the market baffles me, but even further to that the most egregious of all of it, is the fact that someone who interviews 5 years from today is a head of me on the airplane I fly. So who is the BIG winners, every single AC employee present and future.
I would gladly trade what we have now for a C2 on Jazz flights and C4 on AC flights. Your attitude towards this matter is the very reason I'm vocal about this, you seem to think this is somehow fair and justified that, god forbid a Jazz guy/gal with 30 years should board a flight ahead of an Astronaut with 2 years service let alone some junior guy with a mere 5 years...Don't bother responding with AC owns all the seats, because in my opinion that is the most arrogant argument someone could present. That is just a business arrangement and also likely not a permanent one either.
Good luck with FOS
PS it is not just employees hired after 2006 that are affected, employees who are not at least 60 with 10 of service by 2020 will not get their retirement passes either. So if a guy has 24 years in by2020 but is only 59 no passes for retirement, how's that for a @#$! you very much!
PSS I would also like to proudly state I did not further correspond with the AC hiring department after that, I had meant to but never got around to it before I decided to stay where I was, now despite all of it, I'm still glad I did.

[Hold short]

i was always kinda suprised we got the passes we did considering we really had nothing to do with ac

What were you smoking when you worked at Jazz?, EVERYTHING Jazz does is Air Canada. Just because a piece of paper says we are a "seperate" company, we still operate 800+ flights a day for AC and should be entitled to the same passes, but let Calin play his game with you anyway.

[haironfire]

What were you smoking when you worked at Jazz?, EVERYTHING Jazz does is Air Canada. Just because a piece of paper says we are a "seperate" company, we still operate 800+ flights a day for AC and should be entitled to the same passes, but let Calin play his game with you anyway.

BTW Jazz flies Air Canada customers but does not work for AC. You are a Jazz employee, which is an entirely a different entity than an AC employee. Same as Sky Regional, Georgian etc. They are employees of their own company, not AC. Air Canada is Jazz's customer, and the people on Jazz's airplane are Air Canada's customers.

Why can't people get these things straight!

[mbav8r]

I wonder just if you'll feel the same when this happens, after seeing Qantas do it, I feel even more strongly about it happening to AC, KARMA is real nasty these days

mbav8r wrote May,2010
Why not take away passes from all of the companies spun off from AC. Only the lucky AC employees keep the passes and everyone else can go away.
MONTREAL - Air Canada (TSX: AC-B.TO) will become minority owners in Aveos Fleet Performance Inc. after the aircraft overhaul company's lenders endorsed a refinancing plan to reduce the heavy debt assumed with its 2007 privatization.
http://ca.news.finance.yahoo.com/s/2701 ... nders.html
Everyone in these companies were once AC employees, and after the vultures got done, the employees left over want to toss out the scraps, very selfish.
What would you ACPA pilots say if what's left of AC was divided into domestic and international as two seperate companies? Then in a surprise move(no surprise to me) they sell the domestic division to someone else, now a seperate company, half of you work for XXXX airline, formerly AC domestic. What happens to your passes then, would you still eat your young?
What if the company that bought you was JAZZ, how would you feel about us spouting BOTL? I'm sure some would say that, because there's always 10% of a group that are like that. And if you don't think this scenario is possible, you might want to take off those rose colored glasses you're wearing and look at what has happened so far.

[Mig29]

I guess YOU can not get these straight !

Can't you see the trend ( you know, the elephant coming your way in the hall ? ) ACTS, JAZZ, Aeroplan ? Now: CR is trying to split you further away. One day you are an AC employee/or 100% part of the family with the privileges attached to the position and the day after, without any notice, you are simply persona non grata

If you are NOW an AC employee, TOMORROW could be very different. Even the wide bodies at AC are no more protected from this scam. You could be an AC EMJ captain today and the day after your TA as been signed, a new Skyservice one. Be carefull on your reasoning, it could happen to YOU

That is VERY TRUE what your wrote milehigh!!
I guess some people just haven't been in this industry, or more specifically AC family long enough to see and understand this. I have.
And just like that, because some dickweed up in YUL HQ picks a calendar day in his head, you may find yourself tomorrow morning in a whole different AC "family". It's been done before and it can be done again.

And to add on to what mbav8tr wrote about splitting off....well, don't worry, Qantas has just announced it's plans to that with it's fleet. Division between international and domestic operation is coming soon.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-18155822

[ywg9]

I wasnt smoking anything, i understand how business works and jazz and ac are two seperate companies. The only thing that conects them is that jazz provides contracted service to ac and pays for the fuel. That doesnt make them the same company. knowing that doesnt mean i was smoking something it means am a realest.

[Hold short]

ywg9, one can only hope you will get spun off into the LCC and loose your passes! Even tho you'd fly the same people on the same plane to the same places, you'd be now working for a "separate" company, this is your theory anyway

[ywg9]

Hold short. The fact that it happens as i said earlier i as a jazz employee expected it at any time it was a nice perk. If thats the way things play out in than i will have a choice to make, if the passes mean that much to me than i would go some where had better pass travel. I agree it sucks they took them away after the fact and theremay have been a,better way of dealing with it but given your comments and the hate being thrown out it makes it hader to feel bad o. It is after all aviation and you cant count on anything the same, look at the guys worried about pension. Dpnt count on anything aviation