Walk Away

[DrBoeing]

I could have posted this on any of the last threads durind the previous 6 months but here goes

You people, pilots in particular, are the upmost pathetic group of human beings that ever walked upon this part of North America. To think that you will even get 50% of what you hope for is a pipe dream, even 10% is wishfull thinking. What you and the rest of Ac employees negotiating for a contract are about to do is negotiate yourselves directly into unemployment. What really hurts is the fact that you will hurt big time many if not most retirees and all the other people that depend on AC for a living, many of whom are your relatives, be it direct parents or behond but YOU, do not give a S_I_, never did, never will.

I, for one, have ZERO, repeat ZERO sympathy for you that beleive that you are owed the world, even a small something. You are ONLY, repeat, ONLY owed what the market will bear and at this time and right now, that is not a lot, not even a hill of beans worth.

You are too imbued with yourselves to even grasp the reality of the times, and I wish that you actually get what is coming to you, and that is nothing but an unemployment line. If I could beat some sense into each of you, I would but the law of the land does not permit such an act.

You will most probably hurt many tens of thousands of people but you do not care because you are the ME, MYSELF and I generation, generation that cannot see behond the end of said nose and generation that cares only for oneself.

What I would like to add is that I hope you all burn in hell for what you are about to do and if this last phrase is not permissible, I will be edited for it, so be it, but this is a reader's honest opinion. I prefer being in a pigpen than around your presence

Well Duranium,

I can not speak for the pilots, but for those of us in the AME ranks, the market is paying in the upper 80's to low 90's, but AC wants us to remain in the upper 60's. They then wonder why they are having a difficult time attracting employees They were arrogant enough to think that they had a slush fund of AME's when AVEOS closed only to find that the market sucked up these people very quickly, and at a higher wage to boot.
If this contract goes the companies way with the arbitrator, YYZ is likely going to lose close to 100 multi endorsed AME's in the next 12 months. That is enough to shut that base down, all because of shit pay and AC's refusal to pay the MARKET rate.

[DrBoeing]

Air Canada is getting far behind with Westjet wages for licensed mechanics

Westjet AME makes 39.47 and by 2016 it will be 43.11
viewtopic.php?f=27&t=8154

AC AME is just over 32.00 an hour

http://iam140.ca/userfiles/file/Collect ... nglais.pdf

And now AC wants us to pass a test that is not possible to pass to give us an extra 4 grand a years to bring us from being 15k behind West Jet to 11K behind, well until the next West Jet pay raise!

[DrBoeing]

The historical issues aside I would say yes.

Both the IAM and ACPA have made it abundantly clear to everyone that they believe the present process illegal. They have both challenged the B2W legislation in court. They will likely both launch injunctions when they feel the timing is best attempting to stop implementation.

I think it is pretty clear. If given the opportunity to walk from whatever comes of this process both parties will.

Ultimately AC needs a deal they can move forward with. But shoving a deal down their employees throats will have counter productive results on multiple fronts. Issues ranging from increased labor strife to an unknown outcome in court. All leading to uncertainty moving forward. Investors hate uncertainty. Ultimately AC needs to reach an agreement with labor. Something that provides to the company what they need moving forward. Something that ends the uncertainty of continued litigation. Something the employees can endorse.

I suspect this process will produce just that. If it doesn't summer will be a melt down

I hope Raymond can answer this one. If the courts find in favour of the unions and state the feds did not have the right to stop us from striking, can these imposed contracts be deemed null and void and force AC back to the table?

[ChallengerDan]

I wasnt smoking anything, i understand how business works and jazz and ac are two seperate companies. The only thing that conects them is that jazz provides contracted service to ac and pays for the fuel. That doesnt make them the same company. knowing that doesnt mean i was smoking something it means am a realest.

This means that they have managed to have you believe what they want you to believe. And I am not saying that it is false, I am only saying that you are making an opinion without taking historical facts into account.

Jazz is a different corporation. Jazz' pax are Air Canada pax. Current Jazz' employees are not AC employees. Jazz belongs to Chorus, not AC.

Now. How was Air Canada Jazz created. Where are their aircafts coming from. Where are the crews coming from. Who were the owners of ACJ when it was created.

Same can be said for AER. Same can be said for Aveos. Look where that has brought them. Now AER is doing ok, but they are now flying behind your mom too.



Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
—George Santayana


If you think what is happening is fair, that is your prerogative. I know the arguments from both sides. Just take a look at what has happened in the US. Take a look at what is happening in the international LCC world. Take a look at what is happening at Qantas.
Try to see where cutting back some of your peers condition in this industry usually brings you own group sometime later.
We should be looking out for each and everyone of us in this whole industry, as when some of us lose, we ALL lose.

This should never be about AC pilots against AC AMEs or bag handlers or CSA; AC employees agains QK employees, or even about AC emp agaisnt WJ or AT or any other company out there. Let them senior managers play against each other. Not us. You need to realize they ARE playing us against each other. They are always going to benchmark YOU against the next guy. How does the EMJ payscale compare to QK's? To Republic's? to Shuttle's? If you understand business you should know where this is headed.


And when they put out B Scales and new Pension rules and whatnot for new employees, you need to realize that they get away with it even though this is not legal in certain work legislations in this country, such as Quebec. But it IS allowed under the Canadian Labour Code.
Should we be aiming for CLC conditions all across Canada because it is better for business?

And when they cannot get the specialized labour they need at what the market is supporting they get Immigrants from third world countries (in maintenance that was the mid 2000s) to come here and do it for a fortune compared to when they were back home, but cheaply compared to our standards. And I am not saying this to come across as a protectionist or racist. Aircraft are flying in third-world countries every day and other than some exceptions most have pretty good safety records. They have a well run operation, the reality is just that labour costs are a not inline with ours.

For those that say we must be pretty junior if we are complaining. Well it doesn't really matter because we all work for a total compensation package, meaning you do take into consideration the pension, the insurance package, the FLIGHT BENEFITS, the whole marginal benefits in fact. Whenever these are changed, it constitutes a change in WAWCON. And usually not in a good direction.

Yes I am a "lefty". Yes, I do believe in unions. Yes, I do work for Jazz. Yes, I am making less money now than 5 Years ago. Yes, I did stray away from this thread topic. And NO, I have absolutely no intentions of leaving this industry, and that is unfortunate. I probably should.
I apologize for all of that.

[ikarus]

Very good post Dan!

Trouble is, many guys are too numb and blind to see what's happening in front of them. Some just hope and believe that it won't happen to them, so they keep their head down and hope not to rock the boat.

Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
—George Santayana

What else is there to say?

[29chev]

Now. How was Air Canada Jazz created. Where are their aircafts coming from. Where are the crews coming from. Who were the owners of ACJ when it was created.

JAZZ
Established in 2001 as Air Canada Regional Inc. from the consolidation of the Air Canada connector carriers Air BC, Air Nova, Air Ontario and Canadian Regional Airlines

Air BC was established in 1980 after the merger (by the Jim Pattison Group) of a number of west coast domestic airlines: Canadian Air Transit, Flight Operation, Gulf Air Aviation, Haida Airlines, Island Airlines, Ominecca Air, Pacific Coast Air Services and West Coast Air Services.


Air Nova was established in July 1986 with two de Havilland Canada Dash 8 aircraft flying services to five destinations in Atlantic Canada. Further Dash 8s were acquired as the airline became successful and British Aerospace 146 jets were introduced as routes opened up in Canada and the USA. In the spring of 1999 Air Alliance and Air Nova consolidated under the Air Nova name.


Air Ontario Inc. was established in June 1987, with the merger of Austin Airways, Canada’s oldest airline, which began service in 1934, and Air Ontario Ltd. (formerly Great Lakes Airlines, formed in 1958).


The origins of Canadian Regional go back over 40 years to when Time Air was formed by Walter “Stub” Ross from Lethbridge in Alberta. Time Air acquired Southern Frontier Airlines and North Canada Air. In January 1991, Canadian Regional Airlines was formed as a holding company to hold and manage Canadian Airlines Corporation’s regional airline interests.

Just because you asked....