TC AME E Exam study material ( for military )

[dave_091]

I am currently a avionics tech in the military ( maintenance release Level A ) and have been working on the CF-18 for 9 years. I am posted to work on the Cyclone in Shearwater ( very lucky me). Since this is also a civil aircraft I can use my training and experience on it to go towards my AME ( unlike the CF-18). So now I will just have to do 6 months of Civi work and write the TC AME-E Exams.

So My Question is: What books do I need to get in order to complete the three transport canada exams for AME-E? Please don't refer me to the TC website as I have seen many people do in previous posts.

From what I can see the AME-M has a fairly standard set of 3-6 books to study in order to pass their TC exams. As hard as I try, I cant find anything online for AME-E.

Thanks,

Dave

[Tiredoldcoot]

Dave:

For the most part, use the M books! When ya get on civie street the type course that the Cone-Heads (Avoinics or as they say in Shearwater - Gashies) will take is the exact same course that the M guys take! Absolutely no no difference.


I used the Tech Library up on the second floor, besides MCC to research all the stuff onthe Sea Pig. I write the type exam and passed it by using the info. You will still need toknow about weight and balance calculations and some basic airframe, engine stuff. Air regs, CARS, etc.

Don't panice, nor get nervous about it!

You have "probably" alreay been taught most of the stuff you need to know from youir basic trades training course, with respect to the avionics theory.

I used the Amercian A & P materials when I got the first M license. But then again, I had the old "B" license (now a "S" license) when I first got in as a fitter!! LOL LOL

There'll be a couple of guys around Butt F$%k , Nova Scaotis who already have the licenses , so for the most part, they'll help ya ouyt.

Also check with the Transport Guys at the Halifax airport. When I was in that area, they were pretty good about helping out the mil guys and steering them in the right direction. If ya can't get the direction you need fromthem, get hold of the folks in Moncton.

There were a truckload of ex-mil people working outa there, that I used to work with in the mil.

For me, I got a lot more help then I figured from them. But long babbling, short, I would highly recommend getting hold of the American A & P stuff to study and prepare. It covered everything!

[dave_091]

Dave:

For the most part, use the M books! When ya get on civie street the type course that the Cone-Heads (Avoinics or as they say in Shearwater - Gashies) will take is the exact same course that the M guys take! Absolutely no no difference.


I used the Tech Library up on the second floor, besides MCC to research all the stuff onthe Sea Pig. I write the type exam and passed it by using the info. You will still need toknow about weight and balance calculations and some basic airframe, engine stuff. Air regs, CARS, etc.

Don't panice, nor get nervous about it!

You have "probably" alreay been taught most of the stuff you need to know from youir basic trades training course, with respect to the avionics theory.

I used the Amercian A & P materials when I got the first M license. But then again, I had the old "B" license (now a "S" license) when I first got in as a fitter!! LOL LOL

There'll be a couple of guys around Butt F$%k , Nova Scaotis who already have the licenses , so for the most part, they'll help ya ouyt.

Also check with the Transport Guys at the Halifax airport. When I was in that area, they were pretty good about helping out the mil guys and steering them in the right direction. If ya can't get the direction you need fromthem, get hold of the folks in Moncton.

There were a truckload of ex-mil people working outa there, that I used to work with in the mil.

For me, I got a lot more help then I figured from them. But long babbling, short, I would highly recommend getting hold of the American A & P stuff to study and prepare. It covered everything!

Thanks for your response!

You have "probably" alreay been taught most of the stuff you need to know from youir basic trades training course, with respect to the avionics theory.

Yes I have been taught it many years ago, in 2004 to be exact. That was a long time ago and the math is not retained for very long. WHen I went through my training we had something called Performance Oriented Electronics Training ( nicknamed POET) which involved in depth training on Amps, Power supplies, AM and FM theory, Digital theory, etc. If I had to write those theory exams again without training for them I can guarentee I would fail them. At the time I passed with flying colors, but this in depth knowledge fades with time if it is not honed on a continual basis.

Also check with the Transport Guys at the Halifax airport. When I was in that area, they were pretty good about helping out the mil guys and steering them in the right direction.

Thank-you, I most definitely will. I see there are a couple companies operating the Cyclone out of Halifax airport. I will get in touch with them and see if they will be willing to accept me as an apprentice to work toward my AME-E license. Although, I will only be able to work weekends obviously. However, I will be taking my Cyclone type course ( AVS Type course through the military) this fall/winter and perhaps that will help get my foot in the door at one of these companies in order to get my Civy license.

But back to my original question. I understand the A&P books will help me with some things when writing my TC Exams. But they wont help me with the Avionics portion of it. I am unsure what to study. I would like to be as efficient as possible and not read books that are extra-curricular ( good reading for a later date but not for now) and just study the material that will get me through the three (3) transport canada exams to become a licensed AME-E.

Thanks for your input, and I hope a couple more people may have some extra info for me as well.

[dave_091]

Also, How hard is it to get your AME-M after you are a licensed AME-E?

Would one need to attend a entire college program again?

I ask because I fly as well and I'd like to maintain my own small aircraft

cheers

[Popol]

To get your AME-M after being ame-E you should need 1 years in M1 aircraft experience, do the ICS course(or any approved course), Fill a logbook, pass all exam exept cars.

What do you fly?? It might be avail for owner maintenance?

Getting your M1 is probly not worth it if you do it only for maintaining your aircraft

[acidgambit]

In order to get your M license....i believe you have to fill out a logbook. You need to get 70 percent of the tasks filled out in all of the ATA chapters to get your license. You said that you would like to maintain your own aircraft...so i am assuming that you need a M1 license. You also need the ICS course and do your tech exams like Popol said.

Somebody correct me if i am wrong.

Working on the Cyclone should help. M1 and M2 engineers both can work on turbine operated helicopters in the civilian world. So i guess you could help out the AVN techs and have your sergeant sign your logbook. You should go and ask TC on who would able to sign your logbook. Once you think you have 70 percent in all of your ATA chapters...send it into TC to have it approved then go write your CARS exam, but if you already wrote your CARS exam for your E license, i believe you don't have to write it anymore. You just get your M1 right away.

[dave_091]

Thanks guys! great information here.

To get your AME-M after being ame-E you should need 1 years in M1 aircraft experience, do the ICS course(or any approved course), Fill a logbook, pass all exam exept cars.

What do you fly?? It might be avail for owner maintenance?

Getting your M1 is probly not worth it if you do it only for maintaining your aircraft

I dont have my own plane yet, but I am searching for one. I am working on my commercial licence right now and I am looking at buying a cessna 152 or 172. One of the biggest factors in owning your own pane is mainteneance, if I can do that myself I can eliminate that factor, excluding costs for parts. Plus, I just love everything about planes, getting my M1 and maintaining my own aircraft would be living my own little dream. After I begin collecting my military pension I could supplement some income by freelancing, and enjoying it.

Working on the Cyclone should help. M1 and M2 engineers both can work on turbine operated helicopters in the civilian world. So i guess you could help out the AVN techs and have your sergeant sign your logbook. You should go and ask TC on who would able to sign your logbook. Once you think you have 70 percent in all of your ATA chapters...send it into TC to have it approved then go write your CARS exam, but if you already wrote your CARS exam for your E license, i believe you don't have to write it anymore. You just get your M1 right away.

Would anyone have any further info on this? can I work on a military helicopter and credit it towards civilian time? There are lots of factors to consider and I think this would best be a question for TC. I know my AVS time counts towards AME E but if I am a untrained AVN helping with AVN work would this time be credited towards a civilian AME M rating? tough and wordy question, I know.

agian, thanks for all of your help with this! Very much appreciated.

[Tiredoldcoot]

Dave:

Time working ANY military aircraft which also has a CIVILIAn type certificate, to credited towards the apprenticeship time of the civie version. I.E: Sea Pig - Sikorski 61: C130 - L382; etc. Same as the Airbus ( I haven't a clue of the mil version of that one - Been out too long!)

Having said that, get yer mitts on a civie AME logbook. Record the tasks and get them signed off by your crew cief, then when yo're all done (or as you progresss through the mandatory tasks) get the AERE offiecer to sign them as verified. Keep copies of your UER quals as well. Turf the Tug ( mule) quals etc. Nobody gives a shit about those!

As for naming as specific book or books that will provide you with precisely what you need to study and pass the exam - Good Luck , Bro! Ain't no such animal in existence! Plus you'll find when you write the exams, that youy will have to interpolate a couple of the answers. Ain't no big deal! Just ne preparded to dedicate a large amount of time studing! Expect a few brain farts, a couple of obstacles but nothing is insurmountable.

You'll find yourself going through manuals and study material and you'll be scratching your head over some of the stuff on the exam, wondering what the person was on when they made up those exams. Again, not a big deal.

You will be required to know some minor things about airframe, engines, hardware, and a lot of theory. Again, not a big deal, And the stuff you learned on your POET training will all come back to ya!...unless you spent too much time in the jr ranks mess in Kingston!! LOL LOL

As for your statement re: freelancing - geez I hope you were referring to the maintenance side, NOT the flying side??

[Tiredoldcoot]

Dave: I stand to be corrected, but I don believe that all the mil helicopters in servive at this juncture have civie type certificates, so yes, all t (or most) the time spent on the mil machines is credit time. I'm not 100% sure how they figure the credit of time though. Inmy case, I believe it was about 50/50. BUT since I had already has the old B license, that may have helped. Plus I only had to write the Air regs ( now called CARS )exam once. Once ya pass that one you don't have to re-do for each additional license.

When I wrote the Commercial, I honestly can't remember if I had to write it again or not! been a while since I've done them! ...I'm so freakin old Satan calls me Sir!!

I'm sure there's people onhere that can clarify that for you.......or totaly confuse you as well!!

[Tiredoldcoot]

Right from CARS:

(2) Other Basic Training

(a) Applicants who obtained their basic training through training systems other than a Transport Canada ATO (i.e. foreign, military, self-paced, distance learning, etc.), or who successfully completed a Transport Canada ATO course but failed to meet the experience credit requirement, shall submit their graduation certificate, together with a transcript of the training received to the applicable Transport Canada Center (TCC) for assessment. The training received shall be assessed against the pertinent specifications of section 566.03 of this standard and the following standards:
(amended 2003/09/01; previous version)

(i) The applicant shall have received a minimum of 1000 hours theory training applicable to the AME licence “M &E” ratings or 550 hours theory training applicable to the AME licence “S” rating, in order to be considered as having acceptable basic training.
(amended 2003/09/01; previous version)

(ii) The theory training will be evaluated in accordance with the specifications of this standard set out in Division II, Subdivision B, and the applicable provisions of Appendix C. However, the theoretical basic training need not contain a CARs component.
(amended 2003/09/01; previous version)

Information Note:

The CARs component described in subparagraph 566.07(2)(a)(ii) is not required since successful completion of the regulatory requirements examination is required.
(amended 2003/09/01; previous version)

(b) Once the evaluation is completed, TC will provide the applicant with feedback regarding basic training acceptability and an outline defining the scope of any additional training required, if any. Successful applicants will be required to complete the AME Licence Application Supplement, form 26-0638, for approval to attempt the TC technical examinations at a Transport Canada Centre. The technical examinations must be successfully completed within 12 months from the date on which the application was approved by TC.
(amended 2003/09/01; previous version)

[Tiredoldcoot]

Again - from CARS:

d) Experience.

(i) Applicants shall have acquired the applicable amount of total, specialty, and civil aviation maintenance experience set forth in Appendix A. As proof of experience, the applicants shall submit a personal log book or equivalent document signed by the persons responsible for the maintenance release of the work items recorded. At the time of application, the applicants shall have acquired all but six months of the required total experience. Credit toward the total aviation maintenance experience requirement shall be granted for time spent in approved basic training, in the ratio of one month’s credit for each 100 hours of training, up to a maximum of:

(A) 24 months for M or E rating applicants.

(B) 18 months for S rating applicants.

Therefore a graduate from an ATO with a curriculum of 1800 hours, would qualify for 18 months credit.

(ii) Experience requirements expressed in months are predicated upon full time employment of 1800 working hours per year. Applicants with part time experience acquired at a lower rate than this may convert their actual working hours to months at the rate of one month for each 150 working hours, but in no case can a higher rate of work be used to obtain more than one month’s credit for each actual calendar month worked.

(iii) Maintenance of military aircraft, or parts intended for installation on military aircraft, may be counted toward the total and specialty experience requirements, but not toward the civil aviation experience requirement. Maintenance of ultra-light, advanced ultra-light, amateur built, or owner maintained aircraft, does not qualify for any experience credit.

d) Experience.

(i) Applicants shall have acquired the applicable amount of total, specialty, and civil aviation maintenance experience set forth in Appendix A. As proof of experience, the applicants shall submit a personal log book or equivalent document signed by the persons responsible for the maintenance release of the work items recorded. At the time of application, the applicants shall have acquired all but six months of the required total experience. Credit toward the total aviation maintenance experience requirement shall be granted for time spent in approved basic training, in the ratio of one month’s credit for each 100 hours of training, up to a maximum of:

(A) 24 months for M or E rating applicants.

(B) 18 months for S rating applicants.

Therefore a graduate from an ATO with a curriculum of 1800 hours, would qualify for 18 months credit.

(ii) Experience requirements expressed in months are predicated upon full time employment of 1800 working hours per year. Applicants with part time experience acquired at a lower rate than this may convert their actual working hours to months at the rate of one month for each 150 working hours, but in no case can a higher rate of work be used to obtain more than one month’s credit for each actual calendar month worked.

(iii) Maintenance of military aircraft, or parts intended for installation on military aircraft, may be counted toward the total and specialty experience requirements, but not toward the civil aviation experience requirement. Maintenance of ultra-light, advanced ultra-light, amateur built, or owner maintained aircraft, does not qualify for any experience credit.
d) Experience.

(i) Applicants shall have acquired the applicable amount of total, specialty, and civil aviation maintenance experience set forth in Appendix A. As proof of experience, the applicants shall submit a personal log book or equivalent document signed by the persons responsible for the maintenance release of the work items recorded. At the time of application, the applicants shall have acquired all but six months of the required total experience. Credit toward the total aviation maintenance experience requirement shall be granted for time spent in approved basic training, in the ratio of one month’s credit for each 100 hours of training, up to a maximum of:

(A) 24 months for M or E rating applicants.

(B) 18 months for S rating applicants.

Therefore a graduate from an ATO with a curriculum of 1800 hours, would qualify for 18 months credit.

(ii) Experience requirements expressed in months are predicated upon full time employment of 1800 working hours per year. Applicants with part time experience acquired at a lower rate than this may convert their actual working hours to months at the rate of one month for each 150 working hours, but in no case can a higher rate of work be used to obtain more than one month’s credit for each actual calendar month worked.

(iii) Maintenance of military aircraft, or parts intended for installation on military aircraft, may be counted toward the total and specialty experience requirements, but not toward the civil aviation experience requirement. Maintenance of ultra-light, advanced ultra-light, amateur built, or owner maintained aircraft, does not qualify for any experience credit.
(e) Skill.

(i) Applicants shall have performed a representative selection of eligible maintenance tasks, over the full range of applicable systems and structures; those tasks being comprised of not less than 70 percent of the items listed in Appendix B that are applicable to the rating sought and to the aircraft, systems or components for which the experience is claimed.
(amended 2008/12/30; previous version)

(ii) Each maintenance task claimed shall have been:
(amended 2008/12/30; previous version)

(A) subject to a maintenance release pursuant to CAR 571.10, or an equivalent civil aviation maintenance certification under the rules of a contracting state; or
(amended 2008/12/30; previous version)

(B) in the case of a maintenance task claimed on a military aircraft, performed on an aircraft type (or variant of a type) for which a civilian type certificate has been issued.
(amended 2008/12/30; previous version)

(iii) Applicants who claim previous maintenance tasks on military aircraft in accordance with clause (ii)(B), are required to perform a representative selection of maintenance tasks on civil registered aircraft. The tasks shall comprise not less than 10 percent of the items listed in Appendix B that are applicable to the rating sought and the aircraft, systems or components for which the experience is claimed.
(amended 2008/12/30; previous version)

Each task claimed shall have been subject to a maintenance release pursuant to CAR 571.10, or an equivalent civil aviation maintenance certification under the rules of a contracting state.
(amended 2008/12/30; previous version)

(iv) Proof of having completed aircraft maintenance tasks shall take the form of a certification by the AME, or equivalent person who supervised the work. The certification statement shall include the date, aircraft type, registration mark, or component serial number as applicable, and confirm that the applicant is able to:

(A) identify the applicable standard for the task;

(B) select the proper tools;

(C) perform the work correctly without supervision; and

(D) complete the necessary documentation.

(v) Persons who sign for completion of maintenance tasks shall be responsible for the accuracy of statements made.

(8) Ratings.

(a) The scope of maintenance release privileges is indicated by rating designators entered on the licence, as follows:
(amended 2009/12/01; previous version)

(i) M1: Non-turbojet aircraft approved to Chapter CAR 522, 523, 523-VLA, 527, and 549 of the Airworthiness Manual and equivalent standards (includes all airframe, engines, propellers, components, structures, and systems of those aircraft), and the aircraft listed in paragraph 566.03(8)(b);
(amended 2009/12/01; previous version)

(ii) M2: All aircraft not included in M1 (excluding balloons) (includes all airframes, engines, propellers, components, structures, and systems of those aircraft), and the aircraft listed in paragraph 566.03(8)(b).
(amended 2003/09/01; previous version).

(iii) E: Aircraft electronic systems. (includes communication, pulse, navigation, auto flight, flight path computation, instruments and the electrical elements of other aircraft systems, and any structural work directly associated with the maintenance of those systems);

(iv) S: Aircraft structures. (includes all airframe structures);

(v) Balloons.

(b) Holders of either an M1 or M2 rated AME licence also have maintenance release privileges for all:
(amended 2003/09/01; no previous version)

(i) turbine powered helicopters; and

(ii) SFAR 41C aeroplanes, including their associated variants and derivatives.

(9) Additional ratings.

An AME may apply for additional ratings by meeting the requirements specified in 566.03. Credit will be granted for any requirements that were met in qualifying for the currently held ratings.

Information Note:

Individuals who hold both an M1 and M2 rating will not be issued any additional ratings (e.g. E or S ratings), as those privileges are already held within the scope of the combined M1/M2 rating privileges.

(10) Obsolete ratings.

[Tiredoldcoot]

DAve:

For a checklist of items that are required to be taught for the avionics side of the civie world, go to

www.tc.gc.ca "air" Maintenance and manufacturing: and see this specific reference:

Part V - Chapter 566 Appendix C - Part 3

It's quite a list!!

good luck!

[Popol]

Am I the only one that think it would be easier to put the plane on "owner maintenance" instead of getting an M1 license if he is only gonna work on his own aircraft???

[Tiredoldcoot]

Popol:

There was a time when i was strongly in favour of owner maintenance. However, AFTER seeing the quality , or lack there of , of the maintenance of SOME of the owner maintained aircraft, I tend to shy away from it! And I have had to do a lot of maintenance on those machines after they were , for all intents and purposes, "given" to their new owners!!

While owner maintenance 'may" save the owner a bit of money in the short run, over the course of the aircraft's life, the value of the aircraft declines rapidly!! More so if one attempts to sell it across the border.

I am still rather perplexed with that concept though! I assume it's because the buyer wants an aircraft WITH a valid type certificate AND the maintenance performed to a standard that meets the requirement of what ever civil air authority is in force for the country of the buyer.

My recommendation is, if it has a Type certificate, keep it in effect! IF ya wanna do your own maintenance and DON'T want to obtain an AME license, get yourself a homebuilt! Strangly enough, most home builts "usually" retain their value, despite being "homebuilts" Owner maintainened aircraft, and the value drops like a rock! Sure, ya save a few coins doing the maintenance yourslef WHILE ya own it. BUT yer gonna lose a truckload when ya go to sell it!.

Personally, I'd NEVER fly in an owner maintained aircraft NOR a home built, unless I was very familiar with the owner and the quality of work! ...Others may feel free to differ!!

[Popol]

Yeah sure some ppl will do shitty work on their own aircraft... but it all depend of the person...

I am a E licensed guy with a decent mechanics experience (m2 jets). I fell pretty confided that I could do a good job working on my own aircraft. If i were to buy a small aircraft wich I wont because I am not a pilot, I would probly put it on owner maintenance and if thing get too complicated for me I would just ask some friends that work on m1 a/c!!

The aircraft would be as safe as any non-owner maintenance one...

If you don't have any experience in mechanics its a different thing.

[dave_091]

Thanks for all the information guys! Sorry it has been a few days since I have been able to reply. I am in the middle of being posted to Halifax and its getting pretty nuts around the house
House Hunting trip next week in Halifax is going to be fun! I will be going to Debert to check out their airfield since thats where I will be flying out of when I rent my planes.

Popol: I dont JUST want to maintain my own aircraft. That is one of my goals yes but, I would like to fix M1 category aircraft as well and make a dime or two off of it. I would like to get my AME-E and then get my AME-M1 as well. Maybe even open up my own shop when I am collecting my pension ( not for a few years ), or just freelance with my own tool van

[Popol]

OK! I was under then impression you wanted to fix only your aircraft!!
Good luck then!

[Tiredoldcoot]

Dave:

I'd strongly recommend that you talk to a few of the guys who have their own shop first. I stand to be corrected, BUT I believe that Debert's aircraft are maintained by Webair. He's ex mil as is the ( or was) the CFI, there, Stu Fairchild.

HAving your own shop is quite expensive! And ya won't need it unless ya plan on doing commercially registered aircraft. AND ya won't get enough commercial operators with enough aircraft, or who will pay on time, to keep the place open! ( NOT in NS anyways.

PLUS you'll have a fixed price overhead that will result in you being unable to compete with the people who are doing maintenance out of their trucks!

Depending upon private owners to bring in cash, and you're better off spending the next years pay checks on Lottery tickets!

I've trried the approved shop route, and lost my shirt!! Just couldn't compete with the free lancers working out of their truck, or the trunk of their car!!

ANd there are a myrade of people on this site who have gone through the same thing! I'M not trying to discourage ya, but it ain't all rainbows and lollipops1 maqny have tried, but vert few have suceeded!!

Adfter 35 years, I got completely out of the business. WAS AND IS WAY TOO EXPENSIVE TO STAY IN IT!!

Befoe ya jump into it, do some reseach, before ya spend your severance pay trying to finance a money pit11

otherwise, good luck to ya!!

[dave_091]

Tiredoldcoot:

Thanks for that info! Very Very much appreciated.

Sorry I haven't been on in over a week. I am in Halifax and I just finished my house hunting trip ( got a nice house lined up!)

I met Stu this week, he is a great guy. We got to talking about military stuff.

I must admit, your post has discouraged me a bit ( I like how you didn't sugar coat it). I am not sure anymore, maybe I will play everything by ear and poke my nose into some shops and meet some guys who operate out of their trunks/vans.

Perhaps I'll just put all my resourses into FLYING and not fixing. My true passion is flying and my second passion is maintaining. I love to fix anything and everything but nothing can beat flying.

Thanks for the info! If anyone else has anything to add I am all ears.

[RickertsRed]

Found some really good info for this thread for any other military pers looking to escape, errrr, I mean convert to civie AME.... if this has been posted already somewhere I apologize, I did try the search function first.

I searched the TC site high and low for this info and I was not even sure if it existed or not... well it does!!!

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... b-2684.htm
http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/s ... p-2527.htm

side note... is it just me, or did the same person that wrote the CARS also write the P-Series, QR&O's, DAOD's, CFAO's??? Because it's all worded like lawyer babble blah gobbly goop...

Also, congrats on your escape from 409 Dave!!! I asked for Shearwater and the mangler told me it was all full haha so instead I moved all 100ft from 410 to 409 to fill either yours or DVD's place... FML.... I know, somebody queue the violin...