reason(s) for a p.f.o.

Obbie · Post by **Obbie** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:01 am

...And the number one reason for "A PFO LETTER FROM AIR CANADA"............GOD LOVES YOU !!!!!!

"SMASH"

...Paul Shaffer ladies and gentlemen.....

da dat dat da daaaaaaa...........

Old fella · Post by **Old fella** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:43 am

30+ yrs ago when I was running around as a starter in this business, it was said( may be BS) at the time Air Canada wasn't fussy about hiring pilots with experience/backgrounds from other airlines as AC wanted to mold new hires in their own liking. Those days if I am correct junior positions were SO on a DC-8 and later on a B727/B747. I know of may with a CPL, Class 1 Instrument rating and University degree who got the nod, a lot of flying instructors as well. Also heard of FOs from Regionals during that area who AC turned down.

loopa · Post by **loopa** » Sun Jun 24, 2012 7:59 pm

YO_MAMMA wrote:appreciate the positive reinforcement guys.

I'm just more or less puzzled from the fact that there are too many candidates that I know of personally who are just top notch people/pilots; who get the 'no thanks' and on the other hand I know some pilots who should not even be considered and get on.

my letter stated that "the hiring board" together came to this decision; so who is on this hiring board???? People on the hiring board are not even present during the interview; how can they make a good judgement of a candidate based on answers forwarded to them by other people who interviewed you; I believe the hiring board should actually be present during the interview. By no means I feel resentful; it would just be nice if they told you the reason; but I also understand why they can't.

Don't be too bummed about it. Would you want your pension taken away from you after 30 years of work? I don't. Perhaps some guardian angel is looking out for you for the better. Like said by Bede, the best thing that happened to him was that he didn't get the ACA job and just finished getting his phat profit share pay cheque.

You'll find the reason for why you didn't get it, in a few years though when you can look back and connect the dots

Keep your chin up! You've got a good gig sitting left seat at a 705 op.

I believe the system of the "hiring board" is that they take everything together and make a decision. This way it's not a biased decision made by the interviewers. From my understanding the interviewers don't even have a say on you getting hired.

Gino Under · Post by **Gino Under** » Tue Jun 26, 2012 9:27 pm

One thing's for certain.
At the rate the experienced pilot pool in Canada is drying up PLUS the rate at which a lot of that experience is heading overseas, Air Canada might want to be a bit less fastidious over which applicants are PFOd and which ones aren't. (regardless of who has the final say) That rejected talent might just come back to bite them in the ass down the road as that pilot pool evaporates.
There could soon be NO applicants in their pilot application pile and the ones who received a PFO letter today might just have a chance down the road to respond in kind if AC ever needed to reinvite previously rejected candidates in for a second look.
This is no longer the mid to late 70s and prospective pilot candidates don't show up with the same naieve outlook as their predecessors.
Global opportunities will make sure of that AND if AC hasn't seen the writing on the wall then they deserve what's coming.

Gino Under

Dim · Post by **Dim** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 5:56 am

Good point Gino,

http://travel.usatoday.com/flights/stor ... 48661596/1

bcflyer · Post by **bcflyer** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:36 am

Gino Under wrote:One thing's for certain.
At the rate the experienced pilot pool in Canada is drying up PLUS the rate at which a lot of that experience is heading overseas, Air Canada might want to be a bit less fastidious over which applicants are PFOd and which ones aren't. (regardless of who has the final say) That rejected talent might just come back to bite them in the ass down the road as that pilot pool evaporates.
There could soon be NO applicants in their pilot application pile and the ones who received a PFO letter today might just have a chance down the road to respond in kind if AC ever needed to reinvite previously rejected candidates in for a second look.
This is no longer the mid to late 70s and prospective pilot candidates don't show up with the same naieve outlook as their predecessors.
Global opportunities will make sure of that AND if AC hasn't seen the writing on the wall then they deserve what's coming.

Gino Under

Ahhh yes the mythical pilot shortage. I've heard about it for my entire 21yr career and it still hasn't emerged. Hate to break it to you but there are still thousands of pilots applying to AC and with age 60 soon to be a thing of the past, I wouldn't count on AC running out pilots anytime soon...

Old fella · Post by **Old fella** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 9:57 am

Oh yes...... the "pilot shortage" the dialogue continues from when I started in early 70's to these very days.........

MONCTON FLIGHT COLLEGE GEARS UP FOR FUTURE NEEDS

by Moncton Flight College on 2012/06/12 8:53 AM

BY ALAN COCHRANE

TIMES & TRANSCRIPT STAFF

♦

11 JUN 2012 02:05PM

The global aviation industry is poised for growth over the next 20 years and the Moncton Flight College wants to help meet the need for more pilots in the future.

Mike Tilley, CEO of the Moncton Flight College, says the latest estimates from U.S. aircraft maker Boeing is that the global market will need 30,000 new commercial planes, 500,000 new pilots and 600,000 technicians over the next 20 years.

“Most of that growth will be in the Asia Pacific market but some of it will be in North America,” Tilley said yesterday, noting that the Chinese government is starting to open up the country’s airspace to privately-owned charter airlines. “We’d like to get a share of it. We continue to operate our two bases — in Moncton and Fredericton. Our business has dropped off a bit but is sustainable and we need to be well-positioned in the pilot training market when the next wave comes.”

etc., etc., etc. That's 25,000 drivers required every year for the next 20 yrs, irrespective of mergers,bankruptcies,wars,diseases,downturns and the like that affect aviation. Personally, I am a little too old(and been around too long) but whatever.........

Gino Under · Post by **Gino Under** » Wed Jun 27, 2012 10:53 am

bcflyer

Obviously you aren't a student of the entire aviation industry.
You might not want to pay attention to anything I have to say but try reading what the "experts" have to say and pay particular attention to what specifically it is about their change in tune.
I agree with your comment that ACs pilot supply problems might not be "anytime soon" but it will be shortly after that.

Gino Under

Sea2Sky · Post by **Sea2Sky** » Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:40 am

If you had an issue with the medical, they would have told you right away and had you see a specialist in the field where there was an issue. I know people who have had odd bloodwork results, high cholestrol, heart-related question marks. I myself had to follow-up on a question mark (it was nothing, but they DID follow up for a second opinion).

It sounds like you might have been tanked by a bad reference.

altiplano · Post by **altiplano** » Mon Jul 02, 2012 11:26 am

Re:medical issues -

Blood work problem, high blood pressure, irregular test result... The AC docs will work with you to get your issue addressed and move forward with the application. The one thing may be if something comes in pointing to drugs or heavy alcohol use they will just reject it.

Orbit51 · Post by **Orbit51** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:57 am

Hey guys, I'm new to the forum.. just wanted to give everyone a quick review of my experience.

I interviewed May 22, 2012 5000 TT, 4000 Jet/glass cockpit, 1000 Pic. And 29 yrs old.

The interview was very cool and laid back. The people are very nice and very helpful. I felt great about the cog test and answered as honestly as possible on the psych Eval and behavioural exams. The interview panel was the best part. Two retired captains did mine and they were a pleasure To work with.

When i left the air canada training center i felt great about the whole process. Unfortunately I was pfo'd about 4.5 weeks later. But for those of you going to interview know that its a very laid back atmosphere and the people Are amazing so don't stress.

Hope this helps and good luck guys!

126.75 · Post by **126.75** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:22 am

Unbelievable how it goes eh? I have a degree, between 1000 and 1500 of >12.5K, >1500 PIC of which a good portion is Multi Turbine. Interviewed close to a month ago and no call. Anyone get a PFO or a Medical recently? When did you do your Interview?

homer85 · Post by **homer85** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:16 pm

Hey 126.75,

Have a medical coming up shortly. Interviewed 4 weeks ago. Although glad to get a call for the next stage but cant relax till medical is done. Few of my friends got POF'd AFTER doing their medicals. Most likely a bad reference or medical condition they weren't aware of.

Keep us posted if you get a call. Good luck.

HuD 91gt · Post by **HuD 91gt** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 3:54 pm

The Dr in YVR who did my medical last year stated they are just doing everything required for a Cat 1 medical. Your first Cat 1 medical. If there is any issues that come up, it will delay your hiring. You will do more tests until they can prove your ok. If you have something unusual, that particular doctor told me he would let me know as they are not going to let you walk around if you are a ticking time bomb.

If you do the medical and get a PFO(without a call from the Dr), it's not from the medical... He also stated in the last 2 years of hiring, everyone he has tested has passed the medical eventually...

Lateralus · Post by **Lateralus** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:15 pm

HuD 91gt wrote:The Dr in YVR who did my medical last year stated they are just doing everything required for a Cat 1 medical. Your first Cat 1 medical. If there is any issues that come up, it will delay your hiring. You will do more tests until they can prove your ok. If you have something unusual, that particular doctor told me he would let me know as they are not going to let you walk around if you are a ticking time bomb.

If you do the medical and get a PFO(without a call from the Dr), it's not from the medical... He also stated in the last 2 years of hiring, everyone he has tested has passed the medical eventually...

Ok if this is the case who the are these people using a references that are sewering them? This makes no sense to me, because most people would either use someone they know would give them a good reference or at the least contact their references and give them a heads up that AC or company x will calling. Is this not common sense? I mean if guys are going to medical and getting PFO'd cause of a reference is that not their own fault? I mean come on you are at the stage of getting interviewed at a major airline, you should at least know who is going to give you a good reference!

Duncan Idaho · Post by **Duncan Idaho** » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:31 pm

I haven't applied or anything but I've been in and out of international terminals week after week for years, and lol this may be the wrong thing to say, but AC pilots mostly all seem to be really fit good looking white people. Bars always hire hot flirty waitresses right? Haha.. that's probably not the case but I've noticed the same thing, my less qualified friends who are just kind of getting their feet wet are getting hired, while highly qualified people with leadership experience are not. It is a bit odd, but my data pool is small.

TheStig · Post by **TheStig** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:33 am

I believe this has been mentioned here before, but my understanding of the interview process at Air Canada is that candidates are essentially given a grade. While the medical is pass fail the interview transcriptions are given a mark, those with the top marks are invited to the next ground school. This is why some applicants interview and are in a PIT class within 2 weeks and others wait for a couple months. Air Canada has been continuously interviewing, therefore the pool of candidates has been continuously refreshed. This is why some applicants are rejected quickly (their grade didn't meet the minimum) and others are rejected after 6 weeks (as their grade has been pushed out of the pool by candidates that interviewed more recently and obtained a higher mark).

The Raven · Post by **The Raven** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:43 am

Lateralus wrote:
HuD 91gt wrote:The Dr in YVR who did my medical last year stated they are just doing everything required for a Cat 1 medical. Your first Cat 1 medical. If there is any issues that come up, it will delay your hiring. You will do more tests until they can prove your ok. If you have something unusual, that particular doctor told me he would let me know as they are not going to let you walk around if you are a ticking time bomb.

If you do the medical and get a PFO(without a call from the Dr), it's not from the medical... He also stated in the last 2 years of hiring, everyone he has tested has passed the medical eventually...

Ok if this is the case who the are these people using a references that are sewering them? This makes no sense to me, because most people would either use someone they know would give them a good reference or at the least contact their references and give them a heads up that AC or company x will calling. Is this not common sense? I mean if guys are going to medical and getting PFO'd cause of a reference is that not their own fault? I mean come on you are at the stage of getting interviewed at a major airline, you should at least know who is going to give you a good reference!

Air Canada knows that every personal reference you give will say how great a guy you are. After all, you're not going to give a personal reference that will say bad things about you.

It is the previous and current employers who give the bad references. Those are the ones that end up sewering an applicants chances.

RFN · Post by **RFN** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:56 am

3down&loct · Post by **3down&loct** » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:02 pm

Received my PFO about 4 1/2 years ago. 23 yrs Mil exp on 7 aircraft types plus almost every aviation qualification you could get including Instrument Check Pilot and references from many senior Capts.
I did my interview and testing shortly after they introduced the wonderful new gamet of about 1000 Qs about your favorite colour and if you like basket weaving and flower arranging. Heard afterwards through the grapevine there may have been a flaw with the results of these tests for a while.( The week I received my letter I heard of 2 other high time military members who did their testing within a week of me, also getting the PFO letter.) Who knows? I do know however, that AC will never release the reasons for a PFO.
In hindsight it all worked out for me and I am grateful to be flying for another great commercial airline.
Don't forget you do have at least one other option unless you are headstong about flying for AC.
Good luck in whatever road you pursue.

homer85 · Post by **homer85** » Tue Jul 10, 2012 8:19 pm

Just out of curiosity.... What do they check for in a blood test?

Sea2Sky · Post by **Sea2Sky** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:25 am

homer85 wrote:Just out of curiosity.... What do they check for in a blood test?

Last Saturday night

Sea2Sky · Post by **Sea2Sky** » Wed Jul 11, 2012 7:31 am

Duncan Idaho wrote:AC pilots mostly all seem to be really fit good looking white people

I knew I was good looking, even without the hat....

But to find out like THIS that I'm WHITE!?!?

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