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654321
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:01 pm 
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A recent change in my personal circumstances (happy) has me thinking seriously about aviation related business opportunities.

I would be interested in hearing privately from some of those involved in ownership of flight training units.

Is this a lifestyle business? Can you make a professional level level wage/return owing an FTU?

What sort of initial capital investment is needed?


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ant_321
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 9:49 pm 
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Run.


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654321
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 10:34 pm 
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ant_321 wrote:
Run.


Ba-da-boom. But seriously folks I'll be here all week.

Come on. People own and run these businesses everyday. It can't be all horrible.


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Iced Kiwi
PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:20 pm 
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Location: Somewhere up there..
I knew someone who use to run one in NZ, "654321" would nicely represent the company bank account over a short period.


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Beefitarian
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 12, 2012 11:42 pm 
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It looks pretty tough. Your customers are mostly people that will kick you over and step on you to cross the street because a new place opened and their hourly rate is $1 less. If an engine goes on one of your planes you need to fix it as fast as possible regardless of the cost. You're losing money and possibly customers anytime something like this happens.

You'd get to own airplanes so there's that.


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5x5
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 4:25 am 
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Make sure you don't have much if any financing costs. With no debt you can make a bit, but most of it goes back into assets.

If you have the energy and will devote the time you may be able to build a FTU into a combined school/charter business and make some cash that way.

A partner with excess cash and a willingness to accept a long term return will also be very helpful.


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Cat Driver
PostPosted: Fri Jul 13, 2012 6:24 am 
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Most important is can you be your own Operations Manager , CFI and PRM?


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rob-air
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 3:44 pm 
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Beefitarian wrote:
It looks pretty tough. Your customers are mostly people that will kick you over and step on you to cross the street because a new place opened and their hourly rate is $1 less. If an engine goes on one of your planes you need to fix it as fast as possible regardless of the cost. You're losing money and possibly customers anytime something like this happens.

You'd get to own airplanes so there's that.



Same goes for any kind of business, seriously this is the way people think now, cheaper the better.
I think starting from scratch in the flight training industry would be realy hard unless you have some realy
good assets (amazing connections, a well known experienced and respected CFI, a s*#tload of money , ...)


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Shiny Side Up
PostPosted: Sat Jul 14, 2012 4:04 pm 
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The worst thing I think about the FTU business I think is the slow return on investment. To get going you have to be prepared to go for a fair chunk of time where you got capital tied up not making money before you can get turning revenue on it. Bare minimum, you need a plane, a facility, people on staff, insurance and all your paper in order before you even apply for your FTUOC, the issue of which will take an unspecified ammount of time. That's a fairly hefty expenditure for just doing a one plane, one pilot operation. you might be able to find some helpful people who would be willing to be named on your paper for free until you get operating, but don't count on it. The insurance people won't give you a pass though, nor will whomever you're renting space from. Ideally you should also have some reserve set away for the equipment which will essentially offset your first revenues. With a larger set up you can expect to have longer timeframes. Nevermind time to build up your business - it would certainly help if you had the reputation to draw business before you got started rather than a no-name where you'd be working from scratch. That all said, there is money to be made, if you can find the right location and can withstand the initial period. Its never going to be a get rich quick scheme, which will deter most investors, except the ones with the most interest in making use of the service, but with that of course you have to be careful.


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dave_091
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:10 am 
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Find a field just outside of Halifax and open a school there. There is NOTHING within a hour drive of halifax. Find a place to open within a 15 minute drive of halifax and you will have customers.
Halifax shipyards also won a 25 billion dollar deal to build the CF's new ships. Thats a lotta cash those shipyard workers are going to want to spend.
Halifax GA died and it needs a rebirth. If someone opens up a FTU and does it right there is money to be made.


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Krimson
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 4:04 am 
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No one drives to Debert? It's about an hour away from Halifax, 3 runways, an FTU with a few instructors.


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dave_091
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:38 am 
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Krimson wrote:
No one drives to Debert? It's about an hour away from Halifax, 3 runways, an FTU with a few instructors.


Debert is just that, an hour drive away. For such a large city Halifax should have something a lot closer to the city itself.


Also, here is a great link for starting your own FTU:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/publications/EN/TP1 ... 12862E.pdf


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shitdisturber
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 6:02 am 
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Actually when you look at the actual title of the thread, "owing" a flight training unit sounds about right! :smt040


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Pavese
PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 1:04 pm 
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dave_091 wrote:
Find a field just outside of Halifax and open a school there. There is NOTHING within a hour drive of halifax. Find a place to open within a 15 minute drive of halifax and you will have customers.
Halifax shipyards also won a 25 billion dollar deal to build the CF's new ships. Thats a lotta cash those shipyard workers are going to want to spend.
Halifax GA died and it needs a rebirth. If someone opens up a FTU and does it right there is money to be made.


Krimson wrote:
No one drives to Debert? It's about an hour away from Halifax, 3 runways, an FTU with a few instructors.


dave_091 wrote:
Debert is just that, an hour drive away. For such a large city Halifax should have something a lot closer to the city itself.


+1

From someone who has contributed a lot to the wear and tear to the highway between Halifax and Debert.

I envy the locals around Halifax who have a float plane in the back yard, they can step out any time and go, with the drive to Debert or Waterville it becomes a full day commitment.

I cannot fathom having a city the size of Halifax and NO GA facility.

D 8)


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Roranora
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 2:15 am 
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I worked at a flight school for years and... I gotta agree with all the above posts. Winter is a hard month where there are bills and literally no income. It's cost of doing business is high. We even do our own Maint to save a few bucks but yea the margin is quite low...

Most of the time you either pick money or safety. I've seen flight school where the CFI pushes student out to fly even though its not comfortable for them.. or you can tell your student to come back another day.. means no money for you.

If you don't do your maint you can get robbed.. so not just the teaching.

I'd say just buy an aircraft, freelance instructor ;)


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Big Pistons Forever
PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 3:23 am 
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Flight training is a business like any other. Too many people let the "romance of Aviation" cloud their business decisions. Ask yourself at every step "If I was starting a toilet cleaning company" would this make business sense.


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Grantmac
PostPosted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:08 am 
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Location: Coming home to YYJ soon.
There are more fun ways to burn money.


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