New C-182 to run on Jet-A

[golden hawk]

http://www.cessna.com/NewReleases/Featu ... 54195.html

Cessna Bringing Jet A Fuel Engine to Piston Market

OSHKOSH, Wis., July 23, 2012 — Cessna Aircraft Company, a Textron Inc. (NYSE: TXT) company, is introducing an innovative technology for single-engine airplanes that will usher in new capabilities and increase the flexibility of general aviation. Cessna’s Model 182, Skylane will now be available as the Turbo 182 NXT equipped with the first engine of its kind in the single-engine industry designed to run on Jet A aviation fuel.

“Cessna’s Turbo 182 NXT delivers a solution that the marketplace has been asking for,” said Jeff Umscheid, Cessna 172, 182, 206 business leader. “The 230 horsepower Jet A engine offers customers increased range and greater payload capacity and does not sacrifice performance. This plane offers significantly lower direct operating costs due to the fact that Jet A fuel is typically more affordable and much more widely available.”

The Turbo 182 NXT is a result of market research and has already undergone extensive reliability testing, as well as flight testing. The Safran-made SMA engine is engineered specifically for aviation and is already FAA and EASA certified. The engine uses only 11 gallons per hour of the typically lower-cost Jet A fuel at the estimated maximum cruise speed of 155 knots.

“Operators can now take advantage of the wider availability of Jet A with the potential to fly farther on one gallon of gas than you can with traditional avgas aircraft,” Umscheid said. “This is a game-changer that opens up new markets and new regions of the world due to its versatility and performance.”

There are environmental benefits that go with the Turbo 182 NXT. The fuel technology used in this engine eliminates concerns about carbon monoxide emissions, fuel mixtures, propeller control and exhaust gas. The engine operates at a lower propeller speed. As a result, the turbocharger technology delivers a quieter flight line and reduces noise pollution. There are zero lead emissions and zero CO emissions. Flight at the maximum cruise speed demonstrates greater fuel efficiency, and will burn approximately 30 percent to 40 percent less fuel than comparable avgas engines.

The Turbo 182 NXT has a seating capacity for four and an estimated range at max cruise speed of 1,160 nautical miles (2,148 kilometers). The certified ceiling is 20,000 feet (6,096 meters). The Garmin G1000 avionics suite is pilot-friendly and highly-functional, bringing great levels of situational awareness to the cockpit. The engine diagnostics display on the primary flight display and the multi-function flight display. Fuel capacity is 87 gallons (329 liters), with an estimated useful load of 1,030 pounds (467 kilograms).

[slam525i]

I, for one, am really excited about this. As a recreational PPL, with hopefully another 40 years of flying ahead of me, and I'm unlikely to ever be able to afford turbine power, this is the "out" from 100LL. I know it's not the first diesel, but Thielert burned a LOT of people when it collapsed. I also don't think electric airplanes will go anywhere except in the training market (and possibly not even they will buy it).

Nothing would make me happier than to see this STC'ed onto the front of a Mooney. (Except finding the money to buy it!)

[andy_mtl]

I did 80+ hours for my CPL on a C-182 Q with the SMA Jet A conversion .
Fantastic AC to fly, the performances are out of this world.
In cruise at 70 inches of manifold i would burn 7 GPH of jet A and get 135 Knots TAS
during circuits i would do 4.5 GPH and get a climb rate of 1500+ feet per min and a glide of 350PFM with two people and 50 gallons on board.

Just a shame they havent been used more often! i just hope now with cessna making them instead than having to get a conversion, we get to benefit to this much cleaner and less expensive way to fly an aircraft.

Andy

[swordfish]

You put: "70 inches of manifold" You do mean manifold pressure do you? Do you really mean SEVENTY?? Not 37 or even 47 but 70, or is that +7.0 over atmospheric?

[andy_mtl]

Yep that 70! it run on idle at 35, and for take off you need to get 80 or you reject( thats how i was trained on it and it is marked on the manifold pressure guage)

You get up to 100 inches in the winter and in the 90 in the summer.

The airplane i m talking about isnt in canada anymore, got converted to a bush C182, however you can still find pics online if you google C-FJTA , and notice the ident, JTA, it was the first 182 to get the conversion.

[Schmev]

As someone is just about to start getting my PPL, primarily for fun and hopefully one day trips to visit family, this is indeed very exciting news. Anything that can bring down the cost of personal aviation, will allow me to be in the air more often.

[andy_mtl]

Thats the link for the company that makes this engine, it has alot of the details

http://www.smaengines.com/spip.php?rubrique15&lang=en

[swordfish]

Thanks. I kinda gagged on the manifold pressure because the big radial engines went to a take-off power setting of about 51", most about 48", and cruise around 30-35 inches. So I see now with this engine being a diesel, how the MP is so high. That would "break" a radial...

[andy_mtl]

You would think cause its a disel it would be rough and loud, instead is such a confy enine to fly.

what i would do if i owned SMA, i would make a 310 or 325 HP version and retrofit Navajos with it, it would bring the airplane back to his more glorious days!
Immagine flying a navavo and burning ... 22GPH maybe?and the reliability that there are no spark, no mags and less than 500 moving parts in the engine.
And.... there is no 50 hours inspection, only 100 hours!

the only problem would be the cost of the conversion, after that the operating cost would drop drammatically

[Big Pistons Forever]

The list price is going to be $ 515,000

I just can't see much of a market for a buck eighty two at that kind of money........

[1000 HP]

Certainly won't be a "Game Changer" for me. Aircraft loans are hard to get. You'd have to be a millionaire to afford a plane with that kind of price tag.

I bet flying clubs would need to get $500 hr to make that work. It will be awhile before they filter down to the average pilot.

I'm working on my second million, I gave up on the first..

[andy_mtl]

But thats if you buy the 182 new, the conversion is about 85000$ canadian.

but then you operating cost drops to about 70$ per our plus fuel, about 25$ per hour, and there is money to be made.

also the tbo is 2400 hours compared to the normal 2000, and it can always go on commision.

[Big Pistons Forever]

But thats if you buy the 182 new, the conversion is about 85000$ canadian.

but then you operating cost drops to about 70$ per our plus fuel, about 25$ per hour, and there is money to be made.

also the tbo is 2400 hours compared to the normal 2000, and it can always go on commision.

Cessna says the engine burns 11 Gal/hr. The Lycoming in a late model C182 burns about 13 Gal/hr. Jet A average is about $ 1.50 per litre or around $ 5:70 a gallon. Avgas is running about $ 1:80 a litre or 6:80 a gal. 11 gal/hr @ 5:70 a gal = $ 62 an hour for fuel for the diesel vs $ 88 an hour for the gas engine. You can overhaul the engine for $30,000 and then use the $55,000 towards the extra fuel the gas engine will burn and still come out ahead at the end of 2000 hours and you don't have to bet the farm on an unproven power plant, and that is why they won't sell very many of these engines.......

[dave_091]

Reading this article gets me excited! But it will probably take 15 years before I get a affordable chance to fly it.

[Johnny#5]

Thats what she said...

[andy_mtl]

the supplement to the POH of the one i flew stated 9 GPH to have 135 TAS and cessna sais 11 GPH for 155TAS and i flew it at 7-7.5 GPH with and got 135 TAS...

i m sure if you take a normal 182 and flew it at 155, if he makes it( cause that would be max cont power) you ll burn even more than 13GPH

At work i used to fly a 182 but with the O470 engine with 260HP, and we do 15 GPH

[Big Pistons Forever]

the supplement to the POH of the one i flew stated 9 GPH to have 135 TAS and cessna sais 11 GPH for 155TAS and i flew it at 7-7.5 GPH with and got 135 TAS...

i m sure if you take a normal 182 and flew it at 155, if he makes it( cause that would be max cont power) you ll burn even more than 13GPH

At work i used to fly a 182 but with the O470 engine with 260HP, and we do 15 GPH

I have never seen a situation where you could do 20 % better then the POH fuel burn and get the same speed. The POH numbers are always the best case scenario so you say you got 7-7.5 Gal /hr Gal hour to get 135 kts and the POH say 9 gal hour .......well I sorry I just don't believe you. I know from personal exprience you can get 135 kts at 13 Gal/hr in the gas avgas powered C 182. The 4 hour per gal savings over the 9 gal/hr for the SMA engine, even when combined with cheaper jet A still won't recover the the extra cost of the conversion.

But you still have to have commercial levels of utilization, and the reality is that there is not much of a market for C 182's in commercial service. As was pointed out in an earlier post the commercial operators are using aircraft with engines in the 300-350 hp range (eg C 185/206/402 and Piper Pa 31). What the industry needs is a diesel for these aircraft.

The SMA is a dead end unless they build a 300 hp version.

[Colonel Sanders]

a 182 but with the O470 engine with 260HP

There has never been a version of the carbureted TCM O-470
rated at 260 hp.

I think you must be referring to a fuel-injected TCM IO-470
which was available with 260hp and was installed via an STC.

The 182 never came from Cessna with that TCM IO-470
engine, although later models did come with fuel-injected
Lycoming IO-540 engines derated to 230hp.

[andy_mtl]

BPF:

I wish that plane would still be in Canada to show it, but it s not, however, i could pm you the info of the previous owner , which also owns a flying school north of montreal, he could be more in details about the fuel usage of the aircraft. unfortunately i dont have anything to back me up but the 80 hours i flew on it.

Colonel:

teh O470 is the version most skydive 182 have has engine, this is the xtract of a cador we had due to a engine blowing in flight last year:
Aircraft InformationFlight #:

Aircraft Category: Aeroplane
Country of Registration: CANADA

Make: CESSNA
Model: 182H

Year Built: 1965
Amateur Built: No

Engine Make: TELEDYNE CONTINENTAL
Engine Model: O-470-R

Engine Type: Reciprocating
Gear Type: Land

Phase of Flight: Cruise
Damage: No Damage

thats the type of engine it has

Andy

[Big Pistons Forever]

a 182 but with the O470 engine with 260HP

There has never been a version of the carbureted TCM O-470
rated at 260 hp.

I think you must be referring to a fuel-injected TCM IO-470
which was available with 260hp and was installed via an STC.

The 182 never came from Cessna with that TCM IO-470
engine, although later models did come with fuel-injected
Lycoming IO-540 engines derated to 230hp.

Actually Pponk has an STC for what they call the O 470 dash 50. It is a 0 470 case with 520 cylinders and is rated at 265 hp. However the O 470 R is definitely the plain 230 hp version. Since andy_mtl doesn't appear to know what the hp of the engine was in the airplane he flew I am even less believing of his fuel flow numbers for the SMA engine....

[andy_mtl]

BPF hey thats the info we have in our company.... im not a mecchanic im just a pilot...

For the info i have its a o-470 with 260 HP

can give you my company s name and you can file in a complaint for miss informing us about the HP ratign of the engines we fly

Andy

[Colonel Sanders]

Everyone lies about sex, horsepower and cruise speed.

[andy_mtl]

Hahah ok! Well I m just sating what I was told about the 182 I flew at work, I'm in tomorrow and I can forward you some pics of my training exams records ... Not in my intent to offend or upset anyone here

[CpnCrunch]

More info here:

http://www.wired.com/autopia/2012/07/ce ... bo-diesel/

They're saying it will burn 11GPH versus 16GPH at 155kts, and it will have a single power lever (no prop or mixture). It also says they aren't going to be producing the avgas burning version any more. Really, all of this is long overdue.

[slam525i]

As AvGas gets used less and less, the price gap between AvGas and Jet A will get bigger and bigger, and the math will work even more favourably for the diesel. (I'm in no position to buy one, but I'm happy it exists!)