denial of raic pass

[sky Rookie]

anyone ever heard of this happening and had to appeal?

[ajet32]

If there are gaps in your work or education history, or if you have been working overseas it can happen. The overseas gaps are the hardest to get around since many overseas police agencies are not especially cooperative>

[tbaylx]

Didn't have it denied, but after returning from overseas there are a ton of hoops and paperwork you better have if you want to get a RAIC. Talk to TC before returning and find out all the stuff you need. Alot easier to get the appropriate documents from foreign agencies while you are still in country.

[Meatservo]

I'm just repeating rumours, which I know I shouldn't do, but still: I have heard of Borek pilots having difficulty getting the RAIC pass when returning from an extended period working in the Maldives. It's an Islamic nation, of course, and don't let the government try to tell you they aren't profiling, or at least abetting the USA's blatant profiling. You can fool the fans, perhaps, but not the players. I say again however, this didn't happen to me, so until someone confirms it, please regard this as simply a rumour.

[tbaylx]

I'm just repeating rumours, which I know I shouldn't do, but still: I have heard of Borek pilots having difficulty getting the RAIC pass when returning from an extended period working in the Maldives. It's an Islamic nation, of course, and don't let the government try to tell you they aren't profiling, or at least abetting the USA's blatant profiling. You can fool the fans, perhaps, but not the players. I say again however, this didn't happen to me, so until someone confirms it, please regard this as simply a rumour.

just a rumour i'm sure. i came back after living in a few places alot more islamic than Maldives and as long as you have police letters from said country and letters verifying employment it's fine. If you are missing either it's a long fight to get approved.

[slowstream]

I never been denied myself, I've had a couple of friends who after returning from overseas had to supply a lot of supporting paperwork to support their story, but.............

Come on people, these stupid, inept, bureaucratic morons need a swift kick up their ass and some common sense injected straight into their brains if they should have any! I have renewed my RAIC, long form 4 times over my career and as I harassed the dead neophytes in YYC the last time asking them what is with you people, you don't keep records? You can't look at my file and simply ask what I've been doing for the 5 years or maybe compare what I said I've been doing with say Revenue Canada or Customs & Excise? You want me to recall what college my ex-wife went to, her parents names and where they were born? WTF Over? This department in my humble opinion has to be one of the more severely mentally handicapped departments in all of the Federal Government!!

I honestly can't believe their crap, their attitudes, (especially YYC), the crap they peddle and believe! As the joke has circulated for years now, they can track the life a freaking cow but they can't seem to track down my records or keep track of where I've worked, lived, went to school and who I married and my spouse's life history? Oh yes I am certain its changed so much! I'm sorry but this department, their purpose and combined with CATSA are a joke and an embarrassment! The people working there and in CATSA should be embarrassed and ashamed of themselves. Their approach to how they conduct business and their priorities are completely messed up and most often useless!

Maybe we should all be ashamed of ourselves for putting up with this department and their police attitude! The last I heard officially and argueably, we don't live in a police state........ yet, so why are putting up with the complete lack of common sense of this department? I can say for myself my last renewal I was borderline abusive to them suggesting that they and their management should have possibly stayed in school a little longer. Yes, I was warned by them, but they also processed my paperwork and my RAIC was issued in the same time frame as in previous applications, but if we don't speak up, this will continue and only get worse. Also in my humble opinion employers are the ones who really need to start speaking up and saying BULLSHIT, pull your head out of that dark smelly cavern you call your a** and fix this system because its terriable!! Its also the employers who really need to speak up, they will have a greater voice in getting some change and maybe some common sense brought forward or into the equation.

I am so thankful and hopeful that I never have to deal with them again or at least very hopeful

Rant over

[Meatservo]

Slowstream, I noticed that in your passionate anger, you accidentally spelled "terrible" wrong. However, I should be overlooking this in light of your excellent rant. I have long held that the government employees responsible for "security" are often the most questionable and incompetent F@*Ktards I have ever had the displeasure of hearing about and trying to deal with. The fact is, the port through which and date upon which my father entered the country in 1952 is not information they have any right whatsoever to act upon, so why are they asking? I have a perverse desire, every time I fill out that goddamn form, to answer "Beirut, 1982" instead of the correct answer, and see what happens.

The fact is that as Canadians, we have the RIGHT to visit other countries. I don't think it should be legal for the Canadian government to be able to deny us the ability to work here just because we went somewhere else for a while. If our rights as citizens are diminished somehow by the act of going on a vacation, or if we are calling into question our own moral values just by leaving, then they should have made this clear before we left in the first place. This is ridiculous.

[helicopterray]

I was renewing a form once that asked for my mother in law's birth date.
I asked the girl if she really expected me to ask my mom in law how old she was.
It got left blank.

[North Shore]

My inlaws live in Japan. Their address is in Japanese - how else are you to find their house? It's not like the non-existent street signs are in English. So, I asked my wife to fill out their address (using her best handwriting, of course!) and submitted the form.

[dave_091]

RAIC - What is this?

From what I understand by reading these posts is that you have to fill out a form to be eligible to work in Canada after working in another country, is that right?

I'm so tired of this countries bureaucratic BS that when I get my pension I am going to take my money and move elsewhere.

[slowstream]

RAIC - What is this?

From what I understand by reading these posts is that you have to fill out a form to be eligible to work in Canada after working in another country, is that right?

I'm so tired of this countries bureaucratic BS that when I get my pension I am going to take my money and move elsewhere.

dave,

No & yes, its for "Restricted Airside Access" which yes you kind of need to do your job.

Thats pretty much what I've done, left the country.


Montrose,

Yeah (lol) sorry I guess I was a passionate about how I felt about the Pass Office, but they really are the poster children of Government Stupidity.

Sorry about the spelling error

[AEROMONKEY]

Hey "slowstream"

Please don't take your anger out on the poor people that process your paperwork....we're not the ones that make the rules....we simply do what we're told by the gov't. so insulting the person trying to help you in my opinion makes you seem like the stupid one. If you wonder why the pass people are pissed off all the time it's because of having to deal with people who can't read a simple form and fill in the blanks.

[slowstream]

Hey "slowstream"

Please don't take your anger out on the poor people that process your paperwork....we're not the ones that make the rules....we simply do what we're told by the gov't. so insulting the person trying to help you in my opinion makes you seem like the stupid one. If you wonder why the pass people are pissed off all the time it's because of having to deal with people who can't read a simple form and fill in the blanks.

Aeromonkey,

Where to start? Its that attitude right there that is faulty, don't blame me, blame the Government! We don't make the rules. Playing the blame game and passing the buck is what gives civil servants the bad name that they well earned over the past 50+ years! Certainly not all, but far too many of you blame the people your suppose to be serving for your bad attitudes and use that to justify your poor performance. If you don't think the civil servants have or had a say in forms and some levels of policy then you must be taking everyone here for fools. Are the forms difficult to read? No, there not. Do you need know my wife's family history? NO. Are you capable to drawing on my previous twenty years history that your various departments have? Yes. Should I take my frustration or anger out on you people? Probably not, I get angry and disappointed with myself lose my cool, I think it lowers me to a level that is unaccepatble and really it isn't how we should treat other human beings . But I can assure you that I feel no guilt or shame in expressing the stupidity of this process; unfortunately, when I encounter the attitudes such as I described previously in the YYC office.............. well lets say it didn't show my better side.

[amraam]

The forms are stupid enough, what makes it even more stupid is that every five years you need to get your fingerprints taken again, along with a retina scan done. I thought the whole idea of using this technology is that these things will never change? In addition to that (in YYC at least) having to fill out TWO separate forms with the same information on them is crazy as well, why can't the local pass office simply use the information on the form filled out for Transport? Make the form completely electronic as well so it can be submitted by the individual at home, if necessary having the 'Authorizing Officer' from your workplace giving electronic authorization. The whole system stinks, all of the government agencies involved already have the information provided on the forms from previous tax returns, employment and school records, etc. Why does it matter where I attended university 20 years ago? It is a pure waste of time.

Becoming unglued with the employees who are your local contacts just shows a high level of immaturity, they should have kicked your ass out to the curb. How impressed would your employer have been when your pass application was refused, good luck treating the people at the local EI office that way. Perhaps submitting a well-written letter to Transport Canada would make a little more sense, though by the grammar I've seen on Avcanada, a lot of people will have problems with that too.

amraam

[AEROMONKEY]

just so you guys are aware....i am not a civil servant....i work for the airport authority...the job of doing the passes has been downloaded on us...I am an Airport operations specialist (ARFF). We simply hand you the stuff to fill out and mail it away when you bring it back. Any delays that occur or problems that arrise are not because of us. We understand how silly the whole system is.

[slowstream]

Becoming unglued with the employees who are your local contacts just shows a high level of immaturity, they should have kicked your ass out to the curb. How impressed would your employer have been when your pass application was refused, good luck treating the people at the local EI office that way. Perhaps submitting a well-written letter to Transport Canada would make a little more sense, though by the grammar I've seen on Avcanada, a lot of people will have problems with that too.

amraam

amraan,

Your absolutely correct! To clarify my actions however I would not say I was unglued but rather outspoken which is why they didn't "kick my ass out to the curb" as you suggested, equally nice grammar. I think I left a picture of being an abusive foul mouthed person, which I was not. I was outspoken about the stupidity of the form and the process which is when I encountered attitude from the personnel at the pass office. If you've been to the YYC pass office you know what I am talking about. Its then I suggested that someone within TC needs to remove their head from a dark cavern. But it does show a lack of humanity which I regret now as I did right after, BTW I did make my employer aware of my actions. I somehow doubt a well written letter to TC would have any effect what so ever, but thats just my opinion. I still think industry has much more power with this sort of thing. However given some of the questionable procedures that they invoke I don't see anything changing there either.

[atmosphere]

I lived abroad for a couple of years, and after applying for my pass they asked me for additional records and information from the countries I was in, such as police records, education records, work records, work contacts, etc. During my time out I also took some months to travel and I was asked to describe a "normal day" during my travel/unemployment, so basically had to write a short essay. They also contacted my employers overseas to confirm the information I had provided was legitimate. Once I submitted the additional required info pass was approved. The process was tedious but not hard, it was just about jumping thru the hoops.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Yet, Foreign pilots who come to Canada to work on temporary contracts for Sunwing and Canjet seem to have no trouble at all obtaining a Canadian RAIC for their six month stint in Canada. Why ? Because when you are a local, they do an in depth investigation on you. When you are a foreigner, all you have to do is to bring a letter from the police in your country stating that you have no criminal record and you are good to go. We Canadians could do the same, go to the RCMP and get from them a letter stating that we have no criminal record in Canada, but that method is not accepted in Canada for Canadians to obtain a RAIC, only for foreigners.

Makes sense doesn't it ? I think that some people in Canada just legislated a job for themselves and we pilots and other RAIC holders in Canada are paying the price.........

[Cat Driver]

Canadians are content with their status of a third world country and being treated like cattle by their masters in government.

Pilots are just another blue collar group of workers so it will only get worse for you poor unfortunates.

[avyonx]

just so you guys are aware....i am not a civil servant....i work for the airport authority...the job of doing the passes has been downloaded on us...I am an Airport operations specialist (ARFF). We simply hand you the stuff to fill out and mail it away when you bring it back. Any delays that occur or problems that arrise are not because of us. We understand how silly the whole system is.

So thats what a Specialist does........I'm suprised they didn't throw in technician or Engineer in the title too.

[Cat Driver]

So thats what a Specialist does........I'm suprised they didn't throw in technician or Engineer in the title too.

No need to.

They already are part of your countries power system that determines whether or not you have the right to work in the Peoples Socialistic Republic of Canada.

They are part of the Bee Hive ecosystem in Canada where you have three distinct groups in the hive.

(1) Worker Bees:

(2) Drones:

(3) Parasites:

Guess which group these people fit?

[Lost Lake]

Cat Driver

+1

This country is going to seed. I'm starting to think we should have lost the war of 1812.

[Beefitarian]

Chins up fellas. Our dollar is above par.

[Cat Driver]

Cat Driver

+1

Thank you Lost Lake.

I think that was one of my better thought out contributions to this group.

It will be interesting to see if anyone here defends the system by denying my explanation on how the system works here.

[critical engine]

Denial also comes from knowing or hanging out with questionable people. For example, I've seen someone have their pass taken away after they got it. She lent her car to her father. Daddy parked close to a certain bikers club house while visiting friends. The car got flagged. She losses pass for being acquaintances with criminals.

That shits F*cked up. I really feel for her. Then I found out that others have had passes taken away.