College of Pilots?

[Brown Bear]

Total joke how some of you clowns compare yourselves to "professionals". Dreamers

[Johnny#5]

suffering from "old and angry".........

[Meatservo]

Total joke how some of you clowns compare yourselves to "professionals". Dreamers

Just because you aren't one is no reason to be rude.

[Beefitarian]

In defense of Cat, the performers in Circque de Solei do incredible things and probably don't have degrees.

I never notice him saying being a pilot is too easy. Just that for many, learning "guzintas and chyperin" does not help improve their skills.

[Doc]

Total joke how some of you clowns compare yourselves to "professionals". Dreamers

Just because you aren't one is no reason to be rude.

Here's why I, at least, don't consider pilots to be "professional". Hear me out.

Our freshly admitted "member" in good standing to the "College", goes to his interview with Wasaya/Bearskin/whoever, and informs the interviewers that he is indeed, a member of the "College" of pilots. The interviewer says, "That's very nice. That'll be ten thousand dollars....."
And you know what our shinning example of professionalism does next? He pulls out his cheque book, and writes a cheque to these bandits for 10K!
Yup. We're "professionals" all right.
Oh, you can say you're a "professional" till the second coming.....but you're swinging at windmills...
And all you folks who really think a "college" will do SFA to improve your working conditions have your heads up your asses.
Money see, monkey do. One guy jumps off a cliff, and all his buddies think it's a great idea. It's not.
The "college" is after MONEY! Your money. You just don't get it. Do you?
You think the pressure to overload/push weather/extend duty times etc will be on the agenda of the "college"? Really? Wake the F up.

[Roper]

Here's why I, at least, don't consider pilots to be "professional". Hear me out.

Our freshly admitted "member" in good standing to the "College", goes to his interview with Wasaya/Bearskin/whoever, and informs the interviewers that he is indeed, a member of the "College" of pilots. The interviewer says, "That's very nice. That'll be ten thousand dollars....."
And you know what our shinning example of professionalism does next? He pulls out his cheque book, and writes a cheque to these bandits for 10K!

It's my understanding that memberships for the College of Professional Pilots of Canada did not start
going 'public' and accepting applications until this past week. Don't even think their website was up until
then. If that timeline does not fit when that cheque was written, maybe you're/they're not talking about the same thing.

[Cat Driver]

In defense of Cat,

Thanks Beef, you are correct I have never said flying was " easy " what I have said is one only needs to be able to read and write to be a skilled safe pilot by using common sense and learn from your own mistakes and knowing when to quit pushing the weather etc.

I have not renewed my pilots medical and may not ever renew it because if I don't have a license then I won't be asked to fly airplanes..

My plan now is to finish my sailplane license in California this winter.......I don't need to renew my medical to that.

And I don't have to write any exams because I have a FAA license which never expires.

I want to fly aerobatics in a sailplane for fun.......something that will be easier on my old body than the Pitts was.

[Prairie Chicken]

Doc, you're suggesting the College is after money. I don't believe that is the case, but if it is, they're really, really bad at it because they've taken years to get to the point of asking for members, and for those members to pay a small membership fee. If this is a get-rich quick scheme ... it ain't gonna work.

[+TSRAGR]

These are taken from a policy statement of the College.

Read them carefully and see if you feel comfortable with them.


1.0 Purpose of the College of Professional Pilots of Canada (the “College”) Privacy Policy
The College is a federally registered, non‐share corporation with a volunteer board of directors
and professional staff whose purpose is to regulate professional pilots in Canada.The College
supports and advocates on behalf of its members and industry by developing and implementing
strategic plans, and delivering a range of information services to its members, partners and
industry.

1.2 Definitions
"Personal information" means any information about an identifiable individual. It includes,
without limitation; information relating to identity, nationality, age, gender, address, telephone
number, e‐mail address, Social Insurance Number, date of birth, marital status, education,
employment health history, assets, liabilities, payment records, credit records, loan records,
income and information relating to financial transactions as well as certain personal opinions or
views of an Individual.

2.0 Purposes of Collecting Personal Information
Personal information is collected in order to assess the eligibility of the individual completing an
application for membership in the College, as well as to report to Transport Canada. The
individual is the main source of information but the College will also ask to obtain information
directly from a third source where the individual does not have the required information.



These three paragraphs say that:
1) The College exists to regulate pilots.
2) Personal information includes your opinions, views, financial history, social insurance number etc.
3) The purpose of collecting personal information is to assess your worthiness for membership and to report information to Transport
Canada.

[Doc]

These are taken from a policy statement of the College.

Read them carefully and see if you feel comfortable with them.


1.0 Purpose of the College of Professional Pilots of Canada (the “College”) Privacy Policy
The College is a federally registered, non‐share corporation with a volunteer board of directors
and professional staff whose purpose is to regulate professional pilots in Canada.The College
supports and advocates on behalf of its members and industry by developing and implementing
strategic plans, and delivering a range of information services to its members, partners and
industry.

1.2 Definitions
"Personal information" means any information about an identifiable individual. It includes,
without limitation; information relating to identity, nationality, age, gender, address, telephone
number, e‐mail address, Social Insurance Number, date of birth, marital status, education,
employment health history, assets, liabilities, payment records, credit records, loan records,
income and information relating to financial transactions as well as certain personal opinions or
views of an Individual.

2.0 Purposes of Collecting Personal Information
Personal information is collected in order to assess the eligibility of the individual completing an
application for membership in the College, as well as to report to Transport Canada. The
individual is the main source of information but the College will also ask to obtain information
directly from a third source where the individual does not have the required information.



These three paragraphs say that:
1) The College exists to regulate pilots.
2) Personal information includes your opinions, views, financial history, social insurance number etc.
3) The purpose of collecting personal information is to assess your worthiness for membership and to report information to Transport
Canada.

And you people are COMFORTABLE with this? Comfortable with sharing your financial history, your health history, assets, liabilities, net worth, SIN, etc.,.......WHY WHY WHY???

They need all this to "assess the eligibility of the individual......"to join the "college". Are YOU good enough to join US?

Are these people for real? PHUQUE YOU!

Some of you are too young to know any history. Do you want ANYBODY to have that much information about YOU? Are you really stupid enough to supply that kind of information to ANYBODY??

Give your collective heads a shake!

Are you all retarded?

[Johnny#5]

I now agree, it's all a big conspiracy theory.

They're all out to get us. Not only will I NOT now be a part of this College but I will also wear a tin foil hat at all times in order to reduce the mind-manipulation technology that I'm sure the government and this "College" has at their disposal.

I miss the old-fashion days....life was so much simpler back then....

[Meatservo]

I'm assuming you don't have a RAIC pass, then Doc?


Easy, big fella! I'm joking!!!!!

[trey kule]

I am not sure they can require your SIN. I think there are some laws in Canada dealing with who can ask for that.
So, what happens to those of us who refuse to join? Are we going to be denied a license, or the opportunity to participate in a wonderful, soon to be implemented , insurance plan.

This reminds me of the CBAA some years ago when TC decided to let them regulate the 604 side of things...

It will grow like a cancer. A justify its existance continually...but those who think it will get them a job or deal with any real issues facing pilots are deluding themselves, I think. In any event , damned if I would provide that information to anyone unless it is required by law, and I think that it will never come to that..

[Doc]

I'm assuming you don't have a RAIC pass, then Doc?


Easy, big fella! I'm joking!!!!!

I know you are.
But why would any organization need this much information on anybody?
I see nothing in their mission statement about improving working conditions for pilots.
Do they NEED you banking/credit history etc.,? WHY?
Seriously, I see no benefit for a pilot to join these guys at all.

They need to know that you are indeed a pilot. Licence number. Okay. Age? Okay. Why would they need anything else? You're either a pilot....or you isn't. If that's not what it should be about, then, no thank you.

BTW, I had an RAIC pass. I haven't needed to have one for years.

[slam525i]

I can't find the policy statement on their website but if the above is true:

"purpose is to regulate professional pilots" scares the crap out of me. So does idea that they want your financial records and marital status.

The scariest part? "personal opinions and views of an individual" That's under "personal information", which is collected "to assess the eligibility of an individual ... as well as to report to Transport Canada". You know how fricking Orwellian that sounds!?!?

RUN PEOPLE! RUN FAST, RUN FAR!

[TomM]

Oh dear,

The language in the privacy statement is what lawyers refer to as "boiler plate". What wasn't referenced in the above post was a portion of the statement that says "Only that information which is required to make a determination of an individual's eligibility will
be collected."

You can view the entire document at http://www.collegeofpilots.ca/storage/c ... icy_EN.pdf

Perhaps a revisit of the privacy statement is in order. Please believe me, there is nothing sinister about this endeavour. The idea is fundamentally to promote professionalism.

[Doc]

Oh dear,

The language in the privacy statement is what lawyers refer to as "boiler plate". What wasn't referenced in the above post was a portion of the statement that says "Only that information which is required to make a determination of an individual's eligibility will
be collected."

You can view the entire document at http://www.collegeofpilots.ca/storage/c ... icy_EN.pdf

Perhaps a revisit of the privacy statement is in order. Please believe me, there is nothing sinister about this endeavour. The idea is fundamentally to promote professionalism.

In this case, all you need is the peace time equivalent to "name, rank, and serial number..."
Licence number? I see everything else as irrelevant? If every pilot is not eligible, you have no basis or reason for existance. Or, are you only after pilots with post secondary education? Good credit ratings? Married? Single? Tall? Short? Hot? Not? As I see it, the only quality for "admission" should be a pilot's licence. How else would you pretend to represent the pilot group?
If there's no "cloak and dagger", remove the personal questions.

[TomM]

You are correct Doc.

The only information that is collected is that which is necessary to appease the credit card clearing house we use. You are also correct that license number is part of the deal specifically for the College's purposes. That and an address in case we need to reach you via phone or snail mail. I personally added the question about left-handedness as I'm a lefty and am curious if there are more or less than the average population that share that trait. So far, we are average.

Birth year is also asked as we need that info for actuarial purposes for the insurance stuff we're working on. In that case, age is not attached to identity.

No one is omitted from joining. This is not a venture to create elitism, it is a venture to promote professionalism.

Whether the privacy statement needs to be amended on that front is the domain of our lawyer. I will add it to the list. I do feel though that it does need to be amended to be more specific in the goals of the College. That does appear to be a misstatement and I apologize.

Now, I am literally off to fly a kite. Loving the beach weather here in SW Nova Scotia.

Tom

[+TSRAGR]

Here is another little gem from the College.

Please note that all information has been copied from their site without editing or revision.

5.2 Disclosure and Transfer of Personal Information
Personal information will be disclosed to only those College employees, members of College
committees, and the Board of Directors that need to know the information for the purposes of
their work or making an assessment as to the individual's eligibility for membership or member
services.
Personal information will only be disclosed to third parties with the individual's knowledge and
consent.
PIPEDA permits the College to disclose personal information to third parties, without an
individual's knowledge and consent, to:
• a lawyer representing the College;
• collect a debt owed to the College by the member;
• comply with a subpoena, a warrant or an order made by a court or other body with
appropriate jurisdiction;
• a law enforcement agency in the process of a civil or criminal investigation;
• a government agency or department requesting the information; or,
• as required by law.

Note that information may be given without your consent to any government agency or departmant that requests it.

On a silly note you cannot proceed past the what hand do you use question on the membership form unless you answer it.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

So do truckers need a college of...truckers? If you can't find a job, cry about it. If you pick a dink to work for you...remember that for next time. College of plumbers?

Plumbers ? In Quebec they have the "Corporation de Maitres Mécaniciens en tuyauterie du Québec" which has over 2500 members.

Professional Corporations, Associations or Colleges have existed since the Middle Ages.

On the federal level, in Canada we have :

Association of Administrative Assistants (AAA)
Association of Canada Lands Surveyors (ACLS)
Association of Consulting Engineers of Canada (ACEC)
Association of EMG Technologists of Canada (AETC)
Board of Canadian Registered Safety Professionals (BCRSP)
Canadian Air Traffic Control Association (CATCA)
Canadian Alliance of Physiotherapy Regulators (The Alliance)
Canadian Association of Animal Health Technologists and Technicians (CAAHTT)
Canadian Association of Electroneurophysiology Technologists (CAET Inc.)
Canadian Association of Instructional Designers (CAID)
Canadian Association of Journalists (CAJ)
Canadian Association of Management Consultants (CMC-Canada)
Canadian Association of Medical Radiation Technologists (CAMRT)
Canadian Association of Midwives (CAM)
Canadian Association of Naturopathic Doctors (CAND)
Canadian Association of Occupational Therapists (CAOT)
Canadian Association of Optometrists (CAO)
Canadian Association of Paralegals (CAP)
Canadian Association of Professional Conservators (CAPC)
Canadian Association of Professional Image Creators (CAPIC)
Canadian Association of Social Workers (CASW)
Canadian Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists (CASLPA)
Canadian Association of Therapists in Complementary Medicine (CATCM)
Canadian Association of University Teachers (CAUT)
Canadian Bar Association (CBA)
Canadian Bookkeepers Association (CBA)
Canadian College of Medical Geneticists (CCMG)
Canadian College of Microbiologists (CCM)
Canadian Consulting Agrologists Association (CCAA)
Canadian Cosmetics Careers Association (CCCA)
Canadian Council of Insurance Regulators (CCIR)
Canadian Council of Technicians and Technologists (CCTT)
Canadian Dental Assistants' Association (CDAA)
Canadian Dental Hygienists Association (CDHA)
Canadian Dental Therapists Association (CDTA)
Canadian Federation of Aromatherapists (CFA)
Canadian Federation of Mental Health Nurses (CFMHN)
Canadian Federation of Professional Foresters Associations (CFPFA)
Canadian Hearing Instruments Practitioners Society (CHIPS)
Canadian Institute of Actuaries (CIA)
Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants (CICA)
Canadian Institute of Quantity Surveyors (CIQS)
Canadian Nurses Association (CNA)
Canadian Organization of Professional Electrologists (COPE)
Canadian Orthopaedic Association (COA)
Canadian Pharmacists Association (CPhA)
Canadian Physiotherapy Association (CPA)
Canadian Podiatric Medical Association (CPMA)
Canadian Society for Chemical Engineering (CSCE)
Canadian Society for Chemical Technology (CSCT)
Canadian Society for Civil Engineering (CSCE)
Canadian Society for Electrical and Computer Engineering
Canadian Society for Mechanical Engineering (CSME)
Canadian Society of Cardiology Technologists (CSCT)
Canadian Society of Children's Authors, Illustrators, and Performers (CANSCAIP)
Canadian Society of Diagnostic Medical Sonographers (CSDMS)
Canadian Society of Environmental Biologists (CSEB)
Canadian Society of Landscape Architects (CSLA)
Canadian Society of Microbiologists (CSM)
Canadian Society of Orthopaedic Technologists (CSOT)
Canadian Society of Professional Engineers (CSPE)
Canadian Society of Respiratory Therapists (CSRT)
Canadian Translators, Terminologists and Interpreters Council (CTTIC)
Canadian Veterinary Medical Association (CVMA)
Certified General Accountants Association of Canada (CGA-Canada)
Chinese Medicine and Acupuncture Association of Canada (CMAAC)
College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC)
Denturist Association of Canada (DAC)
Dietitians of Canada (DC)
Editors' Association of Canada (EAC)
Engineers Canada
Geoscientists Canada
Institute of Professional Bookkeepers of Canada (IPBC)
Insurance Brokers Association of Canada (IBAC)
Interior Designers of Canada (IDC)
Investment Dealers Association of Canada (IDAC)
Natural Health Practitioners of Canada (NHPC)
Opticians Association of Canada (OAC)
Paramedic Association of Canada (PAC)
Professional Surveyors Canada
Society of Certified Management Accountants of Canada (CMA Canada)
Society of Graphic Designers of Canada (GDC)
Society of Professional Accountants of Canada (The) (SPAC)


What do all these people know that Canadian pilots have so far failed to understand? Wake up pilots! Join and make this thing work for us.

[dazednconfused]

You are correct Doc.

... it is a venture to promote professionalism.

Tom

1. How do you promote professionalism? Is there a serious problem of unprofessional commercial pilots that we need to pay funds to a college to fix it? The guys i know at 704/705 operations are professionals.

2. Are you going to regulate who can be a 'professional pilot' and enforce airlines to only hiring college members? Why else would someone sign up?

If you want to make things better. Start a professional 2 or 4 year training program thats maybe tied into a university degree, that comes with government regulations that only these professional college graduates may fly commercially. Sort of like med or dental school, Nav Canada, or airlines in the EU who have their own training programs which weed people out based on academics, apptitude exams etc. Then have the government then says yes, only these graduates qualify to work in this field. Otherwise, what are you doing to address the supply/demand problem that exists for commercial pilots are facing? Without addressing this issue, how and why will wages and benefits, and safety, get any better?

Let industry, who hires pilots, determine who is professional enough for them. I have met many professional pilots - and the reason they have a good job is just that. They have a good attitude and strive hard and come off as someone you want up front. I have seen others who have a poor attitude, dont care about personal appearance, and wonder why they cant get a job. Just because you get an engineering or accounting degree doesnt mean you have a professional personality and will land a job. It's up to you to get a job at that point.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

And you people are COMFORTABLE with this? Comfortable with sharing your financial history, your health history, assets, liabilities, net worth, SIN, etc.,.......WHY WHY WHY???

They need all this to "assess the eligibility of the individual......"to join the "college". Are YOU good enough to join US?

Are these people for real? PHUQUE YOU!

Some of you are too young to know any history. Do you want ANYBODY to have that much information about YOU? Are you really stupid enough to supply that kind of information to ANYBODY??

Give your collective heads a shake!

Are you all retarded?

Doc, have you done any simulator in the United States since 2002?

In response to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the U.S. government has instructed all U.S. flight simulator companies to have non-U.S. students sign the "Authorization for the Release of Information" form and forward the completed forms to the government. The applicant, once he signed the form, authorized the U.S. Department of Justice to:

...obtain any information relevant to my requests for flight training from any relevant source...This information may include, but is not limited to, biographical, financial, law enforcement, and intelligence information.

I further authorize the U.S. Department of Justice to disclose any records or information...obtained in connection with my requests for training to: ...other individuals or entities potentially having information related to the request, including, but not limited to employers and training providers.

Did you sign that form Doc ?

[Duster]

I joined the College of Pilots a few days ago. They asked for my licence # (to determine if in fact I am a Comm or ATPL and elegable to join), my address, and my credit card (just like when I order something from Amazon). Didn't seem too sinister to me.

Why did I join - well been in this business for 31 years (instructing, charter, air ambulance, Ag, government, airline) and have watched the slide in wages,working conditions, public opinion of pilots, erosion of command authority, a government that does not respect existing labour agreements, the use of automation to replace skill and judgement, the farce that is airport security, the willingness of many of our brethren to accept rules and procedures over common sense and judgement, foreign pilots working unhindered in our country, the implementation of SMS etc,etc,etc...

And I asked myself - where has OUR voice been through all this? We bitch at each other in the flight deck about how things are going to hell, we bitch on the various forums, we eat our own young scrabbling for the next job, and we wait for things to get better. I fully believe that if we can get the majority of Canadian pilots on board we just might have a unified voice, and actually gain a measure of the respect we deserve from our government and citizens. We may gain some influence over our regulatory oversite, over setting licensing standards. We will have the opportunity to tell the public our side of an issue. We may actually start to behave like a profession.

I have met and worked with a number of the existing board of the College. There is a perception among some that these are a bunch of fat cat airline pilots with an elitist attitude and a hunger for power. Nothing could be further than the truth - these folks have given up a great deal of time, energy, and finances to try and get this going, and are fully prepard to abrogate their positions when the board elections are implemented in the next year. They are passionate about the positive side of our profession - which I guess makes them an easy target for the whiners who stand back, do nothing, and critique those who TRY.

I sincerely hope that most of use can see past our own small world of self-interest, and join in creating a vision of all pilots, for pilots, so that the next generation of stars has an active voice in their profession.

[+TSRAGR]

The post 2 above is comparing apples and oranges.

The College is neither the US or Canadian government and any comparison is moot.

[Doc]

And you people are COMFORTABLE with this? Comfortable with sharing your financial history, your health history, assets, liabilities, net worth, SIN, etc.,.......WHY WHY WHY???

They need all this to "assess the eligibility of the individual......"to join the "college". Are YOU good enough to join US?

Are these people for real? PHUQUE YOU!

Some of you are too young to know any history. Do you want ANYBODY to have that much information about YOU? Are you really stupid enough to supply that kind of information to ANYBODY??

Give your collective heads a shake!

Are you all retarded?

Doc, have you done any simulator in the United States since 2002?

In response to the September 11, 2001 terrorist attacks, the U.S. government has instructed all U.S. flight simulator companies to have non-U.S. students sign the "Authorization for the Release of Information" form and forward the completed forms to the government. The applicant, once he signed the form, authorized the U.S. Department of Justice to:

...obtain any information relevant to my requests for flight training from any relevant source...This information may include, but is not limited to, biographical, financial, law enforcement, and intelligence information.

I further authorize the U.S. Department of Justice to disclose any records or information...obtained in connection with my requests for training to: ...other individuals or entities potentially having information related to the request, including, but not limited to employers and training providers.

Did you sign that form Doc ?

And the relevance of your comments would be exactly what? How's the esl corse going for you there, Gilles? You are comparing a government's need to "protect" themselves from terrorism with an association's "need" to know information, that is totally unnecessary for them to carry on doing business. But, by all means be a joiner. No need for independent thinkers here. Go with the flow. Follow the herd. This "college" won't get me to join until they can demonstrate they have something to offer. Better working conditions, Livable wage scales, the end to slave labour and indentured servitude, the end to bonds and paying for training.....these are the problems facing our industry. Not the lack of fancy titles and "clubs"