College of Pilots?

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YWGGuy
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by YWGGuy » Thu Aug 16, 2012 12:35 pm

Some people will pay either $50 or $60 depending on what airline company they work for. ACPA and other pilot groups donated money to the College and the College is extending a $10 discount to those who are part of the unions or associations that have contributed already.
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AEROBAT
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by AEROBAT » Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:44 pm

+TSRAGR wrote:These are taken from a policy statement of the College.

Read them carefully and see if you feel comfortable with them.


1.0 Purpose of the College of Professional Pilots of Canada (the “College”) Privacy Policy
The College is a federally registered, non‐share corporation with a volunteer board of directors
and professional staff whose purpose is to regulate professional pilots in Canada.
The College
supports and advocates on behalf of its members and industry by developing and implementing
strategic plans, and delivering a range of information services to its members, partners and
industry.

1.2 Definitions
"Personal information" means any information about an identifiable individual. It includes,
without limitation; information relating to identity, nationality, age, gender, address, telephone
number, e‐mail address, Social Insurance Number, date of birth, marital status, education,
employment health history, assets, liabilities, payment records, credit records, loan records,
income and information relating to financial transactions as well as certain personal opinions or
views of an Individual.


2.0 Purposes of Collecting Personal Information
Personal information is collected in order to assess the eligibility of the individual completing an
application for membership in the College, as well as to report to Transport Canada.
The
individual is the main source of information but the College will also ask to obtain information
directly from a third source where the individual does not have the required information.



These three paragraphs say that:
1) The College exists to regulate pilots.
2) Personal information includes your opinions, views, financial history, social insurance number etc.
3) The purpose of collecting personal information is to assess your worthiness for membership and to report information to Transport
Canada.

The above does seem to be pretty weird information needed to join a pilots association. You would think a pilots licence number would be all that is required. I thought that perhaps there was some merit in a College but I really cannot fathom where the other information could be required. This raises a BIG red flag for me.
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Duster
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Duster » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:11 pm

Your pilot's license number and standard VISA info (as in any other online purchase) are all that is required. You may include your age (the college is pursuing group insurance for its members, and the age demographic of its members is needed to get rate quotes), and your address if you wish. If you read the policy carefully you will note that most of it is standard privacy legelese and that you are not required to provide any personal info beyond what I listed above. There is nothing sinister going on here.
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Prairie Chicken
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Prairie Chicken » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:15 pm

Aerobat, check out Tom M's response on the previous page. I think that excerpt got the attention of a lot of us.
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dazednconfused
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by dazednconfused » Fri Aug 17, 2012 2:16 pm

WJ700 wrote: +1 Duster... my $50 is in. Cheap investment for a potentially large return.
And this would be?
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mbav8r
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by mbav8r » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:45 pm

I joined, not because I'm a sheep or a lemming, but quite simply I believe this industry has hit an all time low and we have nothing to lose except the equivalent of a night out to the movies, for the potential of redirecting the momentum in our favor.
Fortunately, when the benefits are realized, even the people who tried to persuade others not to join and were completely over the top with their arguments will still benefit from it.
I CAN'T believe I joined 4 days ago and there are still companies that charge bonds, WTF over.
Doc wrote,
hear what Tom is saying....but it's so far all sizzle. No steak. Sorry, I'm a carnivore. When I see specific benefits for ME (by ME, I mean US as a whole) I'll look into it. I live by the motto....."Never do anything stupid, fast.."
Don't worry Doc, let everyone else do the legwork, then you can come in a reap the benefits, it's ok. I'll tell you what, one thing is absolutely certain, not joining will guarantee status quo or further degradation, because it is not getting any better by itself.
But please, please refrain from trying to sway people to your side of the issue, because you've been on here for years complaining about bonds, guess what there are still bonds, maybe it's time to try something new.
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Doc
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Doc » Sun Aug 19, 2012 6:59 pm

mbav8r wrote:you've been on here for years complaining about bonds, guess what there are still bonds, maybe it's time to try something new.
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Last edited by Doc on Mon Aug 20, 2012 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.

cncpc
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by cncpc » Sun Aug 19, 2012 11:40 pm

It's becoming unbelievable, really.

This has to be stopped.
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Doc
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Doc » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:06 am

cncpc wrote:It's becoming unbelievable, really.

This has to be stopped.
Because I don't share the kool aide?
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cncpc
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by cncpc » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:37 am

Doc wrote:
cncpc wrote:It's becoming unbelievable, really.

This has to be stopped.
Because I don't share the kool aide?
It's not you I'm talking about, Doc. It is the outrageous arrogance of this group.

You have to have a good credit rating to be a member. Your personal opinions can be examined to determine whether you can be a member, which in turn determines whether you can be a pilot.

I think it is time to form organized opposition to this group, to question those involved, particularly those in Transport Canada and in federal politics.

This is really a preposterous national story for the media as well.
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dazednconfused
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by dazednconfused » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:46 am

....
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Last edited by dazednconfused on Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Johnny#5
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Johnny#5 » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:18 am

:lol: 27 pages of this shit.....


If you're into this idea, join. If you're not, don't.


:smt021
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lostaviator
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by lostaviator » Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:56 pm

All I see is [personal information "means"]. It is defining personal information. That paragraph says nothing about using what is defined.
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loopy
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by loopy » Mon Aug 20, 2012 1:27 pm

Gilles Hudicourt wrote:
Pete wrote:So do truckers need a college of...truckers? If you can't find a job, cry about it. If you pick a dink to work for you...remember that for next time. College of plumbers?
Plumbers ? In Quebec they have the "Corporation de Maitres Mécaniciens en tuyauterie du Québec" which has over 2500 members.

Professional Corporations, Associations or Colleges have existed since the Middle Ages.

On the federal level, in Canada we have :

Association of Administrative Assistants (AAA)
Association of Canada Lands Surveyors (ACLS)
Association of Consulting Engineers of Canada (ACEC)
Association of EMG Technologists of Canada (AETC)
Board of Canadian Registered Safety Professionals (BCRSP)
Canadian Air Traffic Control Association (CATCA)
Canadian Alliance of Physiotherapy Regulators (The Alliance)
Canadian Association of Animal Health Technologists and Technicians (CAAHTT)
Canadian Association of Electroneurophysiology Technologists (CAET Inc.)
Canadian Association of Instructional Designers (CAID)
Canadian Association of Journalists (CAJ)
Canadian Association of Management Consultants (CMC-Canada)
Canadian Association of Medical Radiation Technologists (CAMRT)
Canadian Association of Midwives (CAM)
Canadian Association of Naturopathic Doctors (CAND)
Canadian Association of Occupational Therapists (CAOT)
Canadian Association of Optometrists (CAO)
Canadian Association of Paralegals (CAP)
Canadian Association of Professional Conservators (CAPC)
Canadian Association of Professional Image Creators (CAPIC)
Canadian Association of Social Workers (CASW)
Canadian Association of Speech-Language Pathologists and Audiologists (CASLPA)
Canadian Association of Therapists in Complementary Medicine (CATCM)
Canadian Association of University Teachers (CAUT)
Canadian Bar Association (CBA)
Canadian Bookkeepers Association (CBA)
Canadian College of Medical Geneticists (CCMG)
Canadian College of Microbiologists (CCM)
Canadian Consulting Agrologists Association (CCAA)
Canadian Cosmetics Careers Association (CCCA)
Canadian Council of Insurance Regulators (CCIR)
Canadian Council of Technicians and Technologists (CCTT)
Canadian Dental Assistants' Association (CDAA)
Canadian Dental Hygienists Association (CDHA)
Canadian Dental Therapists Association (CDTA)
Canadian Federation of Aromatherapists (CFA)
Canadian Federation of Mental Health Nurses (CFMHN)
Canadian Federation of Professional Foresters Associations (CFPFA)
Canadian Hearing Instruments Practitioners Society (CHIPS)
Canadian Institute of Actuaries (CIA)
Canadian Institute of Chartered Accountants (CICA)
Canadian Institute of Quantity Surveyors (CIQS)
Canadian Nurses Association (CNA)
Canadian Organization of Professional Electrologists (COPE)
Canadian Orthopaedic Association (COA)
Canadian Pharmacists Association (CPhA)
Canadian Physiotherapy Association (CPA)
Canadian Podiatric Medical Association (CPMA)
Canadian Society for Chemical Engineering (CSCE)
Canadian Society for Chemical Technology (CSCT)
Canadian Society for Civil Engineering (CSCE)
Canadian Society for Electrical and Computer Engineering
Canadian Society for Mechanical Engineering (CSME)
Canadian Society of Cardiology Technologists (CSCT)
Canadian Society of Children's Authors, Illustrators, and Performers (CANSCAIP)
Canadian Society of Diagnostic Medical Sonographers (CSDMS)
Canadian Society of Environmental Biologists (CSEB)
Canadian Society of Landscape Architects (CSLA)
Canadian Society of Microbiologists (CSM)
Canadian Society of Orthopaedic Technologists (CSOT)
Canadian Society of Professional Engineers (CSPE)
Canadian Society of Respiratory Therapists (CSRT)
Canadian Translators, Terminologists and Interpreters Council (CTTIC)
Canadian Veterinary Medical Association (CVMA)
Certified General Accountants Association of Canada (CGA-Canada)
Chinese Medicine and Acupuncture Association of Canada (CMAAC)
College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC)
Denturist Association of Canada (DAC)
Dietitians of Canada (DC)
Editors' Association of Canada (EAC)
Engineers Canada
Geoscientists Canada
Institute of Professional Bookkeepers of Canada (IPBC)
Insurance Brokers Association of Canada (IBAC)
Interior Designers of Canada (IDC)
Investment Dealers Association of Canada (IDAC)
Natural Health Practitioners of Canada (NHPC)
Opticians Association of Canada (OAC)
Paramedic Association of Canada (PAC)
Professional Surveyors Canada
Society of Certified Management Accountants of Canada (CMA Canada)
Society of Graphic Designers of Canada (GDC)
Society of Professional Accountants of Canada (The) (SPAC)


What do all these people know that Canadian pilots have so far failed to understand? Wake up pilots! Join and make this thing work for us.
If you observe this list you see many more "associations" than "colleges". I have brought this up before in my participation in these discussions. Becoming a college is presumptuous, and requires some sort of blessing from the regulator (who is empowered by the Gov't of Canada) to regulate a profession. Ie., the College of Physicians and Surgeons, The college of Psychologists, etc.

Those professions also have associations. The college is the regulator and admits individuals to the profession. The association supports and lobbies for those in the profession.

Professional pilots have a regulator that admits regulates the profession and admits individuals, it's Transport Canada. What we need is a united, wide reaching association that lobbies for us as a profession. It should not just be done by the companies in the industry.

I support the intent behind much of what is behind this venture. I think that attempting to be a college is presumptuous. Even if there were a college, there should still be an industry wide association of those qualified members of the college to lobby for us to indusrty and the regulator (TC or college). I'm in support of an associaton, or what ever other name (council, institute, organization, society), but unless the TC wishes to give up some of their authority, not a college. If we had a regulating college, there would still be a need for an association. I think that is what we need first and foremost.

End of occasionally recurring rant.

I am not sure I can support this endeavour for this reason even if I support some of the intent behind such a group. We need a strong voice, a "college" confuses the issue.

I am still conflicted on this. Perhaps the best bet is to join, even for 1 trial year, and attempt to have my voice heard from within instead of complain about how it is wrong. I believe there is good intent here.
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Last edited by loopy on Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

Doc
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Doc » Mon Aug 20, 2012 7:52 pm

cncpc wrote:
Doc wrote:
cncpc wrote:It's becoming unbelievable, really.

This has to be stopped.
Because I don't share the kool aide?
It's not you I'm talking about, Doc. It is the outrageous arrogance of this group.

You have to have a good credit rating to be a member. Your personal opinions can be examined to determine whether you can be a member, which in turn determines whether you can be a pilot.

I think it is time to form organized opposition to this group, to question those involved, particularly those in Transport Canada and in federal politics.

This is really a preposterous national story for the media as well.
Then we're in the same boat on this. I see on the "big long list of colleges". a grand total of three actual "colleges" all with professionals with at least eight years of post secondary education. Sorry, I've always felt we needed a united voice. Perhaps an organized association of pilots. But a "college"......children, we are NOT surgeons.

I think there even a couple of unions named in the above list? I may be dead wrong, but is CATCA not a union?
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Doc
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Doc » Mon Aug 20, 2012 8:07 pm

I see CATCA listed on Gilles Hudicourt's ist of so called "colleges"

The Canadian Air Traffic Control Association (CATCA) is first and foremost a trade union representing all Air Traffic Controllers in Canada.
We are a local of the CAW (Canadian Auto Workers Union). Our most important role is collective bargaining with Transport Canada, Serco, and NAV Canada.

Taken right off their very own web site. It's a UNION! Which means this has as much relevance to your beloved "college" as a membership in the NRA!
It also diminishes the credibility of your "list" to the level of bull crap. A little research will, I'm sure uncover a vast majority of your list to be UNIONS. Therefore without any merit whatsoever.....unless the "college" intends to become a union, in which case I would expect an uproar from all existing unions within the industry.
You keep pounding that drum, Gilles.....some of us ain't listening.
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AEROBAT
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by AEROBAT » Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:57 pm

I tried joining the college but for some reason could not get past the first page on the internet. Tomorrow I will attempt to contact them via telephone. My reasoning is two fold.

1. If this works out [the college] and they actually have input with the regulators regarding pilot ability and working conditions, very good.

2. It would be extremely stupid to pass on an opportunity to have input on something so important for such a low price.

I would like to see how they rate the merit of membership without hopping in the left seat of a plane a prospective member was actually flying?
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Meatservo
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by Meatservo » Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:58 pm

I don't understand what's going on here.
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cncpc
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Re: College of Pilots?

Post by cncpc » Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:20 am

Meatservo wrote:I don't understand what's going on here.
You're not meant to. If you did, you would be very, very angry.

You're supposed to not ask questions and accept the very simplistic rational advanced by Acrobat above.
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