Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Not sure what kind of changes to the SWG training department you might be referring to?
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
If you work for SWG you will find out shortly.
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Sunwing's training department is about to get some (more) quality personnel.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
True but those passengers buy their tickets on a foreign airline and expect the foreign airline standard. The passengers who flew on the Czech registered 737 flying between Toronto and Punta Cana this last winter for SunWing had purchased tickets on a Canadian Carrier. They expect SunWing to be licensed by Transport Canada and to be run according to Canadian Standards. Had any of those passengers been informed that their pilots had just recently failed to meet Canadian Standards for flying a Sunwing 737, and been sent home, only come back at controls of a Czech registered 737 flying under wet-lease for SunWing, I'm not certain all of them would have boarded the aircraft.....ea306 wrote: There is not ONE single Foreign registered airline flying into Canada that has its pilots subjected to a TC PPC. Not a single foreign carrier flying into and out of this country with Canadian passengers on board is under the direct oversight and governance of Transport Canada as far as pilot proficiency checks are concerned. Each Foreign carrier is governed by each respective state to which the carrier is from.
Yet, Travel Service, the airline that operates that Czech registered 737, has not only the approval of the Canadian Transportation Agency (CTA), applied for by SunWing, but it also has a Canadian Foreign Air Operator Certificate (CFAOC) issued by Transport Canada, so it had two distinct Government of Canada bodies allowing it to carry Canadian passengers on behalf of SunWing.
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Again another subject I have an issue with the foreign pilots, or rather how our own government gives them the Red Carpet treatment in Canada. I received months ago a memo from my employer stating that it sometimes took a very long time to renew the Restricted Area Identity Card (RAIC) and that we had to do it months in advance in order to insure that we would receive the new one before the old one expired. Mine expires in May, so I went and did my fingerprints etc in January. We are April 23 today and I still have not heard from them.
Imagine that a colleague recently told me that last winter he was in the office renewing his card, and he ran into Foreign temporary pilots waiting for theirs. I didn't believe him. I've had one for decades, am Canadian, I live here, work here, and I have to wait for 4 to 5 months to renew one, yet these foreign pilots who don't live here, who come here for a few months, arrive, apply for a RAIC and "presto" they are issued one allowing them to use the Crew-bypass as Canadian pilots do. I checked with someone at Security in Toronto who confirmed to me that there are some Foreign Temporary pilots who have been issued RAICs. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for them to investigate me before I can get my renewal.......
I just don't get it.......
Imagine that a colleague recently told me that last winter he was in the office renewing his card, and he ran into Foreign temporary pilots waiting for theirs. I didn't believe him. I've had one for decades, am Canadian, I live here, work here, and I have to wait for 4 to 5 months to renew one, yet these foreign pilots who don't live here, who come here for a few months, arrive, apply for a RAIC and "presto" they are issued one allowing them to use the Crew-bypass as Canadian pilots do. I checked with someone at Security in Toronto who confirmed to me that there are some Foreign Temporary pilots who have been issued RAICs. In the meantime, I'm still waiting for them to investigate me before I can get my renewal.......
I just don't get it.......
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Saturday evening a Travel Service B737-800 rolled up on the stand next to us. It had a Cdn registration.
What am I missing?
Do they operate more than one?
Reality Czech
NOT ALL (foreign) PILOTS ARE CREATED EQUAL
Gino
What am I missing?
Do they operate more than one?
Reality Czech
NOT ALL (foreign) PILOTS ARE CREATED EQUAL
Gino

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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
According to this Website, http://www.planespotters.net/Airline/Sunwing-Airlines, SunWing dry leases 4 aircraft from Czech Travel Service, one from Hungary Travel Service, all of which have Canadian Registration, and they Wet Lease another which still has Czech registration. The odd thing is that there are also a couple UK registered aircraft, but that are dry-leased.Gino Under wrote:Saturday evening a Travel Service B737-800 rolled up on the stand next to us. It had a Cdn registration.
What am I missing?
Do they operate more than one?
Reality Czech
NOT ALL (foreign) PILOTS ARE CREATED EQUAL
Gino
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
The 6 dry leased Travel Service aircraft are being prepared to be returned for the summer, thus the Sunwing decals have been removed.
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Yes that is true Gilles,
Might I also mention that Sunwing Travel Group the Tour Company sell seats on other airlines besides their own airline. Besides Travel Service, Sunwing Vacations gets exclusive lift from Euro Atlantic on their two B767s as well as from Corsair's B747-400 between YUL and CDG.
For years Sunwing Vacations has been using foreign carriers to grow the tour business. Companies from the USA, Mexico and the Phillipines come to mind.
When a customer buys a ticket with a tour operator it does not mean that the aviation portion of the package is on a Canadian carrier. The difference between an Airline and a Vacation Company. It is the vacation company that sells the tickets...not the airline.
Might I also mention that Sunwing Travel Group the Tour Company sell seats on other airlines besides their own airline. Besides Travel Service, Sunwing Vacations gets exclusive lift from Euro Atlantic on their two B767s as well as from Corsair's B747-400 between YUL and CDG.
For years Sunwing Vacations has been using foreign carriers to grow the tour business. Companies from the USA, Mexico and the Phillipines come to mind.
When a customer buys a ticket with a tour operator it does not mean that the aviation portion of the package is on a Canadian carrier. The difference between an Airline and a Vacation Company. It is the vacation company that sells the tickets...not the airline.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Good point!ea306 wrote:When a customer buys a ticket with a tour operator it does not mean that the aviation portion of the package is on a Canadian carrier. The difference between an Airline and a Vacation Company. It is the vacation company that sells the tickets...not the airline.
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Gilles Hudicourt wrote:Good point!ea306 wrote:When a customer buys a ticket with a tour operator it does not mean that the aviation portion of the package is on a Canadian carrier. The difference between an Airline and a Vacation Company. It is the vacation company that sells the tickets...not the airline.
Whether this is legal or not there is something wrong with allowing the general public to think they are buying transportation on a Canadian carrier and then find themselves on a carrier they have never heard of. No where in the fine print on Sunwing adds have I ever seen mention of the fact that flights may be operated by any number of European carriers, may unheard of by the average consumer. If you look at the adds for Sunwings summer program to Europe there is no mention of the fact that the flights are operated by Euro Atlantic or Corsair, the only one that has any mention is the AMS flight operated by Arkefly. Not sure why that one gets a mention.
Do Canadian consumers not have the right to know what they are buying? And at the very least should Sunwing not have to reveal to the consumer who they are really flying on prior to ticket purchase and arrival on board the aircraft.
Regards,
60N30W
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Perhaps. However it is legal and more than SWG use foreign lift.
Air Canada operated wet leased DC 10 for cargo ops. WestJet to Hawaii offering B757 service.
Both were long term contracts.
Just saying.
Air Canada operated wet leased DC 10 for cargo ops. WestJet to Hawaii offering B757 service.
Both were long term contracts.
Just saying.
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Did they forget to tell the boxes that they were being flown around by Americans?ea306 wrote:Perhaps. However it is legal and more than SWG use foreign lift.
Air Canada operated wet leased DC 10 for cargo ops.

The notice that the hawaii flights were operated by TC aircraft was right on the website.WestJet to Hawaii offering B757 service.
http://www.westjet.com/guest/en/travel/ ... waii.shtml
Just sayin'
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
I thought the main concern of this thread was about preserving jobs for Canadian Pilots? Not boxes vs. passengers or reciprocy with Europeans bad, no reciprocy with Americans good.
Yes good on Westjet for highlighting the foreign operator Thomas Cook operating their flights to Hawaii with some different policies. Are there Canadian pilots at the controls? Is there reciprocy between Thomas Cook and Westjet where Westjet will be operating wet lease aircraft in Europe for Thomas Cook?
Personally I would like to see more reciprocity and perhaps this will mean more work for both sides of the ocean in the vacation leisure travel business.
Yes good on Westjet for highlighting the foreign operator Thomas Cook operating their flights to Hawaii with some different policies. Are there Canadian pilots at the controls? Is there reciprocy between Thomas Cook and Westjet where Westjet will be operating wet lease aircraft in Europe for Thomas Cook?
Personally I would like to see more reciprocity and perhaps this will mean more work for both sides of the ocean in the vacation leisure travel business.
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
hst wrote:Sunwing's training department is about to get some (more) quality personnel.
He is a very qualified individual and has been a pleasure to work with for the last two years at Jazz in our B757 program. Our loss is Sunwing's gain...

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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
If there are any sunwing employees here, I'm looking for access to the friends and family site. I understand that you get a commission every time I book using the F&F site... Send email or PM me! I also have hotel employee benefits to trade.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
So far, I have heard from two pilots who tell me that they are Canadian, that they are Type-Rated on the B-737NG and who are not even being interviewed by Sunwing. Go figure........
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
As a matter of fact, one of the two did get an offer from Canjet. The other just didn't mention it one way or the other.....Dick wrote:Or Canjet...Go figure!
Last edited by Gilles Hudicourt on Thu Aug 23, 2012 4:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
How many English only qualified Canadian pilots does Transat hire?
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
At least two in my ground school me being one of them...whipline wrote:How many English only qualified Canadian pilots does Transat hire?
Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
So you spoke no french at all and got a job? I had 2 good friends not get past the phone call offering the interview because they did not speak french. This was just over a year ago now.
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
I spoke a basic level that I learned in high school, I studied for the month leading up to the interview and spoke a bit during my interview. Since starting here I've learned quite a bit and even butcher my way through cabin announcements nowonspeed wrote:So you spoke no french at all and got a job? I had 2 good friends not get past the phone call offering the interview because they did not speak french. This was just over a year ago now.

There are a few Anglos here like me. French is not a requirement per say but it's very much part of the culture and they appreciate it when you try....
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Re: Sunwing Adds a New Twist on Foreign Pilots
Pls do not bring the language issue on this topic because i will be force to ask how many francophone work for Westjet...