The thing is that I've sent resumes, followed up 2-3-4-5 times and no one, but no one has called me yet. I've even followed up in places where chief pilots where I used to be in contact with changed jobs and now I have to start all over. I've thought of getting a road trip plan together but personal finances don't permit me. No need to say that I wouldn't be writing this if I wasn't a hard and devoted worker.
I applied pretty much over all the country and followed up but if you don't know anyone on the inside you're done. So if any one has a word of advice, maybe a cue about something moving around in the industry that it'd be good for me to know about, anything that would get me off the ground, I'd be more than delighted to hear about it.
Thank you,
Mav
Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Moderators: sky's the limit, sepia, Sulako, North Shore
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maverick24
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Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Last edited by maverick24 on Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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esp803
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
not to be too negative, but you are still very low time. Yes you might have a handful more hours then the oh so common 200 hour wonder, but at 500 it's still only a couple months more experience then a 200hr pilot. Traditionally this is not the best time to be applying as many companies slow down for the winter and layoff people. Just stick with it, eventually something will come.
Another thing that can help is a well written cover letter and resume. It's alarming how many competent pilots have lost chances at jobs to poor grammar and terribly laid out resumes. Feel free to PM me your resume and cover letter for a read over.
E
Another thing that can help is a well written cover letter and resume. It's alarming how many competent pilots have lost chances at jobs to poor grammar and terribly laid out resumes. Feel free to PM me your resume and cover letter for a read over.
E
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tired of the ground
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Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
You will find that for quite a while in your career most of the companies will plan forward to about lunch.... maybe. It's not that they don't care what is going to happen tomorrow, next week, or next month. It's the fact that the dispatcher is also the salesperson, janitor, delivery driver etc. Almost everyone will wear 4 hats and be busy from sunup till Christmas. All that ever gets taken care of is putting out fires. If it's not on fire, in can wait.
That is where you come in. The 'Ho captain just quit and the F/O is ready for an upgrade. The rampy did ground school last month and only needs 5 hours in the plane (tonight) so he can fly the sched tomorrow. There is now nobody to answer phones and load said aircraft. They need someone yesterday (fire's burning). Some kid shows up in a rusty car with everything he owns in it. He smells and doesn't necessary look like he can add 1 & 1, but he managed to open the front door so he can probably pick up a phone. He's hired, fire's out, on to the next one.
That is why you have to be there to get hired. Few places that will hire 200 hour pilots don't have a week (or a day) to wait until someone can fill the spot (and maybe find something more appealing on the way).
If you can't afford to do a road trip, you aren't trying hard enough. Stop going to the bar & drinking timmies. Sell some of that crap that isn't going to fit in your car when you leave anyways. A car will only eat ~$200 a day in gas and that will get a whole lotta country behind you. You aren't staying in nice hotels (or any hotels), you're looking for a job on the cheap. Do a search and you'll find lots of info about how to do a cheap road trip. 1-2 grand should get you anywhere you need to go and you will most likely get a job or make the contacts that will lead to one. Like you said, it's all about who you know.
I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news but for every 1 pilot that does a road trip, there are probably 5 that email and call. A high percentage of the emailers will complain that there are no jobs and eventually leave the industry. If you make the sacrifices and put in the effort you WILL get a job.
That is where you come in. The 'Ho captain just quit and the F/O is ready for an upgrade. The rampy did ground school last month and only needs 5 hours in the plane (tonight) so he can fly the sched tomorrow. There is now nobody to answer phones and load said aircraft. They need someone yesterday (fire's burning). Some kid shows up in a rusty car with everything he owns in it. He smells and doesn't necessary look like he can add 1 & 1, but he managed to open the front door so he can probably pick up a phone. He's hired, fire's out, on to the next one.
That is why you have to be there to get hired. Few places that will hire 200 hour pilots don't have a week (or a day) to wait until someone can fill the spot (and maybe find something more appealing on the way).
If you can't afford to do a road trip, you aren't trying hard enough. Stop going to the bar & drinking timmies. Sell some of that crap that isn't going to fit in your car when you leave anyways. A car will only eat ~$200 a day in gas and that will get a whole lotta country behind you. You aren't staying in nice hotels (or any hotels), you're looking for a job on the cheap. Do a search and you'll find lots of info about how to do a cheap road trip. 1-2 grand should get you anywhere you need to go and you will most likely get a job or make the contacts that will lead to one. Like you said, it's all about who you know.
I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news but for every 1 pilot that does a road trip, there are probably 5 that email and call. A high percentage of the emailers will complain that there are no jobs and eventually leave the industry. If you make the sacrifices and put in the effort you WILL get a job.
Last edited by tired of the ground on Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
There seems to be a bit of a contradiction here. Somehow you've accumulated 500 hours, of which 200 is multi and 300 is PIC. How did you get all those hours. If you paid for them, it's no wonder you have no momey for a road trip. It is getting into the bad weather time of year for driving. It's obvious by your multi time that you have decided against the float industry. While this might upset Doc, it looks to me like you are going to have to follow the rampy routre, unless you get lucky.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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maverick24
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Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Lost Lake wrote:There seems to be a bit of a contradiction here. Somehow you've accumulated 500 hours, of which 200 is multi and 300 is PIC. How did you get all those hours. If you paid for them, it's no wonder you have no momey for a road trip. It is getting into the bad weather time of year for driving. It's obvious by your multi time that you have decided against the float industry. While this might upset Doc, it looks to me like you are going to have to follow the rampy routre, unless you get lucky.
Good luck.
Thanks to everyone for your responses up to now. I appreciate you taking the time.
@esp803: I went and built my resume with a good friend who's been in aviation for quite some time. I don't think that I have the best one out there but I am proud of it and checked the sticky made by xsbank and also looked through the hire me section at the "good" and the "not so good ones".
@tired of the ground: Thank you for your input. I am planning on that road trip but still working my way to getting the money for it. I'm working 14 hours shifts in order to set money aside and get a rental car because my car won't make it.
@Lost Lake: I can reassure you that I didn't pay for multi hours. I don't have a float rating but I would love to get the rating eventually. I haven't decided against bush flying (actually I would love bush flying). I don't want to upset Doc... and without wanting to insult all the guys working the ramp, I would like to avoid that route if I get lucky enough to fly right away. I know a one or two guys who didn't go through the ramp nor instructor route, simply being at the right place right time.
So where do I start my search with my kind of time? If anyone has any cues they'd like to share, please pm me.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
The road trip will get you a job.
Are you still flying? 500 multi opens up a lot more doors with govt contracts like medevac and MNR.
Are you still flying? 500 multi opens up a lot more doors with govt contracts like medevac and MNR.
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Slappy the Squirrel
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Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
I think everybody would prefer to avoid the rampie route, so I doubt anybody takes offense, but the reality is it gives you something to do in the meantime while you're waiting for a flying job. You complain about not knowing anybody in the industry, well, that's a way to meet people. Just because you get a ramp job doesn't mean you can't keep looking around for a flying job, but it at least gets you in line while you wait for something better. Lots of places these days are hiring off the ramp into a great job after just 6 months, shouldn't be too hard to find something that suits your needs.
But trust me, all those pilots working the ramp don't want to be working the ramp. It's not a passion for them, but they couldn't find a flying job anywhere and know this is a way to get a flying job.
But trust me, all those pilots working the ramp don't want to be working the ramp. It's not a passion for them, but they couldn't find a flying job anywhere and know this is a way to get a flying job.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
You are not alone Mav24.
There is a lot of people in the same postion with more time and experience. Contacts and people who know you are your best way to break into this industry. Keep trying and buy the guys on your trip north some beers.
There is a lot of people in the same postion with more time and experience. Contacts and people who know you are your best way to break into this industry. Keep trying and buy the guys on your trip north some beers.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Great thread guys. I am a new 8.3 hour PPL with my plans of making a career change from Accounting to aviation (yes, I have a LONG way to go). I read this forum everyday trying to pick up all the advice I can, and network with as many people as I can.
Keep it up Maverick, I will be in your shoes in a couple years. Any tips you learn along the way would be much appreciated! Just don't give up. The best piece of advice I have heard is that if you want to make it in this industry, you have to go in the with mind set that you are willing to do anything, go anywhere and sacrifice everything...all to make it in a the career we are all passionate about. Its a sacrifice now, but it will pay off in the end. Good luck.
Keep it up Maverick, I will be in your shoes in a couple years. Any tips you learn along the way would be much appreciated! Just don't give up. The best piece of advice I have heard is that if you want to make it in this industry, you have to go in the with mind set that you are willing to do anything, go anywhere and sacrifice everything...all to make it in a the career we are all passionate about. Its a sacrifice now, but it will pay off in the end. Good luck.
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Confliction
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Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
cj555, when it comes time to find a job I would actually highlight the fact that you have an accounting background...
I worked at a place up north who hired people first into the office with part-time flying on the side in a 172 - the boss would hire a person like you because of your "numbers" experience.
When you're looking for work with really low time you're not really advertising your flight experience as much as maybe advertising what else you can do that sets you apart. So Maverick, your time and aircraft types does not necessarily have to be your "front and centre" aspect of your resume(maybe it isn't)...try and find other things that could be interesting (like maybe the CP is also an avid mountain biker, or guitar player or maybe they could use someone with small-engine repair knowledge)
When I first started sending out resumes with 200 hours I had a couple CP's tell me they liked my resume because I was listing other things I did and the actual flight time and types were almost inconspicuous. (of course they still didnt hire me!)
Anyway, things I've seen and things employers have mentioned to me over the years....
I worked at a place up north who hired people first into the office with part-time flying on the side in a 172 - the boss would hire a person like you because of your "numbers" experience.
When you're looking for work with really low time you're not really advertising your flight experience as much as maybe advertising what else you can do that sets you apart. So Maverick, your time and aircraft types does not necessarily have to be your "front and centre" aspect of your resume(maybe it isn't)...try and find other things that could be interesting (like maybe the CP is also an avid mountain biker, or guitar player or maybe they could use someone with small-engine repair knowledge)
When I first started sending out resumes with 200 hours I had a couple CP's tell me they liked my resume because I was listing other things I did and the actual flight time and types were almost inconspicuous. (of course they still didnt hire me!)
Anyway, things I've seen and things employers have mentioned to me over the years....
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
I've gotten every last single job I've had because I've known someone that was either still at the company or had been there and was liked in the past. Remember that everyone you meet in this industry could some day BE that solid contact OR the chief pilot where you're applying. Good or bad, it's a small industry and reputations stick like glue. That being said, if you want a flying job.. you need to be IN the industry somehow. Whether thats working for the airport authority or the local FBO or as a CSA for one of the smaller airlines while working on your licences.. it doesnt matter! So long as you're in contact with other pilots, aspiring, working or retired. You never know what it could lead to.
If you're on here looking for someone to give you that magical lead or contact to a job, it may or may not happen. There another thousand people looking and watching this forum for the same thing. HOWEVER, you can and will find out which companies DO take on low timers, which companies DO promote from the ramp (and get a rough estimate on timeframe) AND which companies to avoid and why. Dont believe your mommy when she told you that you were special, or different or better than anyone else. We ALL have been through this. Some have succeeded by pure luck and chance (1%) and the rest researched our asses off and then worked hard to get where we are now. Complaining will get you no sympathy and probably only annoy those that have to listen. Put some real honest effort in!
That being said too.. remember anyone that helps you out along the way by offering up a couch to crash on, some advice or critique on your resume/cv, the CP that actually gives you 20 mins of his time, the line driver that offered you a donut while you waited etc.. and remember to return the favour in the future when you see someone else in the same shoes.
I still remember the medevac boys at little red that took the time and gave me directions and pointed out some other lesser known ops in the area on my roadtrip.. or the dispatcher who offered me a donut and some hot chocolate when I stopped in somewhere up north with a resume.. was interesting to fly with her years later as we had a good chuckle about it. Or continuously bumping into a fellow Avcan'er all across the country as we moved through the industry.
Confliction had some good advice, highlight some of the skills you have OUTSIDE the airplane that could be of benefit to the operation. Did you previously run a skid steer? Or drive a 15pax van? maybe you're an IT guy or previous web developed? I actually got a comment about my 13yrs with the scouting program that was highlighted on my resume at one point. 'Why yes I know how to lash, tie a bowline and 6 or 7 other useful knots.' Which is funny, because at 9 years old, I hated learning that shit.. but now I use a lot of it daily.. I am a float rat after all
Good luck to you in the hunt and dont give up.. maybe it's just time to try something different or put effort in, in a different way!
If you're on here looking for someone to give you that magical lead or contact to a job, it may or may not happen. There another thousand people looking and watching this forum for the same thing. HOWEVER, you can and will find out which companies DO take on low timers, which companies DO promote from the ramp (and get a rough estimate on timeframe) AND which companies to avoid and why. Dont believe your mommy when she told you that you were special, or different or better than anyone else. We ALL have been through this. Some have succeeded by pure luck and chance (1%) and the rest researched our asses off and then worked hard to get where we are now. Complaining will get you no sympathy and probably only annoy those that have to listen. Put some real honest effort in!
That being said too.. remember anyone that helps you out along the way by offering up a couch to crash on, some advice or critique on your resume/cv, the CP that actually gives you 20 mins of his time, the line driver that offered you a donut while you waited etc.. and remember to return the favour in the future when you see someone else in the same shoes.
I still remember the medevac boys at little red that took the time and gave me directions and pointed out some other lesser known ops in the area on my roadtrip.. or the dispatcher who offered me a donut and some hot chocolate when I stopped in somewhere up north with a resume.. was interesting to fly with her years later as we had a good chuckle about it. Or continuously bumping into a fellow Avcan'er all across the country as we moved through the industry.
Confliction had some good advice, highlight some of the skills you have OUTSIDE the airplane that could be of benefit to the operation. Did you previously run a skid steer? Or drive a 15pax van? maybe you're an IT guy or previous web developed? I actually got a comment about my 13yrs with the scouting program that was highlighted on my resume at one point. 'Why yes I know how to lash, tie a bowline and 6 or 7 other useful knots.' Which is funny, because at 9 years old, I hated learning that shit.. but now I use a lot of it daily.. I am a float rat after all
Good luck to you in the hunt and dont give up.. maybe it's just time to try something different or put effort in, in a different way!
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Changes in Latitudes
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Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Adversity!!! In aviation? In life? I'm shocked and appalled.
If it were easy, everyone would do it; wear a cup.
If it were easy, everyone would do it; wear a cup.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
I am planning on that road trip but still working my way to getting the money for it. I'm working 14 hours shifts in order to set money aside and get a rental car because my car won't make it.
Hm. You have a strange way of approaching things. I shopped around for my "new" pickup truck. A 2,000 chev 3/4 ton 4X4. My new pride and joy. Not a roadtrip vehicle, but the point is there are lots of cheap vehicles out there. If you think for one minute that renting a car for what might be a one month road trip is going to be cheaper than shopping for a good beater. When you get an offer in Pickle Lake or some other out of the way place, to start "IMMEDIATELY" . the drop off cost alone for a rental will be more than the price of a beater. Starting immediately means you will have to drive however many hours to a major city, then find a way back. Then how are you going to get around that place. And when it's time to get out of there, either for a weekend or for good, what are you going to do?
You sure think differently. There a couple of flags going off in head.
Hm. You have a strange way of approaching things. I shopped around for my "new" pickup truck. A 2,000 chev 3/4 ton 4X4. My new pride and joy. Not a roadtrip vehicle, but the point is there are lots of cheap vehicles out there. If you think for one minute that renting a car for what might be a one month road trip is going to be cheaper than shopping for a good beater. When you get an offer in Pickle Lake or some other out of the way place, to start "IMMEDIATELY" . the drop off cost alone for a rental will be more than the price of a beater. Starting immediately means you will have to drive however many hours to a major city, then find a way back. Then how are you going to get around that place. And when it's time to get out of there, either for a weekend or for good, what are you going to do?
You sure think differently. There a couple of flags going off in head.
Last edited by Lost Lake on Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
What? On my head? done!Changes in Latitudes wrote: If it were easy, everyone would do it; wear a cup.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Nor really Dan. Medevac's require 500 MPIC, MNR contracts require 1,000 PIC in a single pilot operation as well as a minimum number of hours on type. Me thinks our poster's multi time was riding aslong in a friend's twin, more as a passenger than a pilot. (He didn't pay for multi time, and he's broke since he can't buy a car, so he doesn't own a twin.)DanWEC wrote:The road trip will get you a job.
Are you still flying? 500 multi opens up a lot more doors with govt contracts like medevac and MNR.
Simple deduction my dear Watson.
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iflyforpie
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- Joined: Tue Apr 15, 2008 12:25 pm
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Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
He didn't say it was his first job. Maybe he got some DC-3 time with Buffalo Joe before deciding that wasn't for him. I've got more than a few resumes like that from people wanting to 'move up' to a command position on a 172.
But that being said, too much dual multi looks bad in a logbook and I believe you can only credit a certain amount to higher licenses. Dual is for learning how to fly the aircraft, so you should be learning (procedures, handling the controls, emergencies) and at a certain point the supervised learning should stop. Bombing around with a friend in a Seneca across the province and back is not the same thing. Only in a two crew aircraft with SOPs can you log copilot. Operators and TC are very quick to get on that, which is why I've got tons of dual time in aircraft I've never logged.
But that being said, too much dual multi looks bad in a logbook and I believe you can only credit a certain amount to higher licenses. Dual is for learning how to fly the aircraft, so you should be learning (procedures, handling the controls, emergencies) and at a certain point the supervised learning should stop. Bombing around with a friend in a Seneca across the province and back is not the same thing. Only in a two crew aircraft with SOPs can you log copilot. Operators and TC are very quick to get on that, which is why I've got tons of dual time in aircraft I've never logged.
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maverick24
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Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Hey Lost Lake,Lost Lake wrote:I am planning on that road trip but still working my way to getting the money for it. I'm working 14 hours shifts in order to set money aside and get a rental car because my car won't make it.
Hm. You have a strange way of approaching things. I shopped around for my "new" pickup truck. A 2,000 chev 3/4 ton 4X4. My new pride and joy. Not a roadtrip vehicle, but the point is there are lots of cheap vehicles out there. If you think for one minute that renting a car for what might be a one month road trip is going to be cheaper than shopping for a good beater. When you get an offer in Pickle Lake or some other out of the way place, to start "IMMEDIATELY" . the drop off cost alone for a rental will be more than the price of a beater. Starting immediately means you will have to drive however many hours to a major city, then find a way back. Then how are you going to get around that place. And when it's time to get out of there, either for a weekend or for good, what are you going to do?
You sure think differently. There a couple of flags going off in head.
Let me clarifiy. By rental I meant renting it out for a few years. I'll reread myself next time because it does indeed sound like a bad plan going out there with a car that you gotta bring back. Then again, my situation and maybe that of beginner pilot doesn't permit us to afford a new truck nor gas for the truck, especially with prices skyrocketing lately. My kind of ride would be a swift or a yaris but from the sound of what you're telling me I might just look into a ford ranger or something of the sort.
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iflyforpie
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Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Two vehicles I wished I would have owned either during my nomadic aviation stage would have been a 1/2 ton truck or a camper van.maverick24 wrote:My kind of ride would be a swift or a yaris but from the sound of what you're telling me I might just look into a ford ranger or something of the sort.
A truck always comes in handy. Moving, hauling portable accommodation, tackling any roads with ease. Best of all they don't depreciate like cars. Get a basic 4x4 with good tires, a tight suspension, and a strong engine, and it will always be worth at least $4000 regardless of the year or miles.
Camper van is again something to sleep in and haul your stuff. Westfalias are pricey for what they are, but make up for it in fuel economy and quality.
If you are making your own meals instead of hitting the greasy spoon and guerrilla camping in your vehicle, you'll save the extra money on gas and vehicle purchase quite quickly. You might be able to stick around for a job for a bit longer as well.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Maverick: Read I fly pie's post. My new ride is a 13 yr old 4X4. I paid $2,500 for it certified, Retail value is $4,500. I only drive it for 2 weeks every 2 months. It will last me at least 5 yr. Again, how do you "rent" a car for a few years. I will guarantee you that you can shop for a reliable road vehicle. I have a 98 cavalier that is bullet proof, except that the front subframe needs replacing. You can buy them for $1,000 to $2,000. Or the venrable dodge minivan (you can sleep in it)
If you are serious about looking for a flying job, invest a few thousand to invest in a career. I don't know how much it cost today for a cpl, but if you have the money to get 500 hr with a commercial license, then to me a few thousand more to look for a job sounds cheap. As I mentioned in another post, right now is a perfect time to visit float operators. While they are tired from a busy season, they have time on their hands while they start/finish the moose hunt season.
IMHO
If you are serious about looking for a flying job, invest a few thousand to invest in a career. I don't know how much it cost today for a cpl, but if you have the money to get 500 hr with a commercial license, then to me a few thousand more to look for a job sounds cheap. As I mentioned in another post, right now is a perfect time to visit float operators. While they are tired from a busy season, they have time on their hands while they start/finish the moose hunt season.
IMHO
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Mavrick,
Most important aviation lesson. If somebody calls you out in a aviation forum where you asked a simple question or beaks off to you in a bar etc. smash a beer bottle in his face.
Good Luck
Most important aviation lesson. If somebody calls you out in a aviation forum where you asked a simple question or beaks off to you in a bar etc. smash a beer bottle in his face.
Good Luck
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DHC-1 Jockey
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- Joined: Mon Jan 28, 2008 6:41 pm
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
As with ROWDY, every aviation job I had I got through networking, and one small roadtrip from S.W. Ontario to the Sudbury area. My story may sound long-winded, but it serves to highlight how important knowing the right people can be.
Be sure to use the knowledge your past instructors and friends who have gone on to their first job. At the small flight school where I did my training, I had 3 different young instructors; one each for my multi, CPL and Multi-IFR. When instructor 1 left to go up north and fly medevacs, #'s 2 and 3 moved up the flight instructor list. #2 used #1's referral and then got a job at the same medevac company. #3 soon followed using the same method. When # 3 left, I got his job as a newly minted Class 4 flight instructor. This all took place from 2007-2008.
In 2008, I started to look for jobs to move on to. #1 had left his medevac job and got a job with a small regional airline. #2 soon followed to the same company. I used their knowledge of the industry and their networking skills (after all, THEY knew the Chief Pilot where I was applying to.. I didn't). #'s 2 and 3 gave me a good reference, and shortly after #3 went to the same small regional airline, I was hired on to the medevac company. The company I got on with was part of my one and only short roadtrip. No sleeping in camper vans or the back of a pickup truck for me.
In 2009, #1 had left for Jazz, and #2 and 3 were at the regional airline as junior captains. Already tired of the medevac lifestyle, they again gave me a good reference and I got hired on there. Coincidentally, a guy I knew from the flight school was now an instructor looking to break into the industry. He used my knowledge and networking to try and land a new job, and so I gave my Chief Pilot his resume. He ended up taking my job when I left the medevac company. Soon after, he followed me to the small regional airline using the same method.
So where are we all now 5 years later? # 1 is at AC, 2 is at Westjet, 3 is at Sunwing, I'm at Jazz and my buddy is a senior F/O at the small airline looking at an upgrade soon, and he's probably helping some past student of his to help land that first job too. The cycle continues... The pipeline keeps producing.
So even if you haven't talked to them in years, shoot them an email to let them know where you are and what your goals are. If you had a good rapport, they just might give you that referral that gets you your first job. After all, it's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know!
And finally, don't forget to pay it forward. That person you help out? They just might end up one day on the hiring committee of that company you want to work for!
Be sure to use the knowledge your past instructors and friends who have gone on to their first job. At the small flight school where I did my training, I had 3 different young instructors; one each for my multi, CPL and Multi-IFR. When instructor 1 left to go up north and fly medevacs, #'s 2 and 3 moved up the flight instructor list. #2 used #1's referral and then got a job at the same medevac company. #3 soon followed using the same method. When # 3 left, I got his job as a newly minted Class 4 flight instructor. This all took place from 2007-2008.
In 2008, I started to look for jobs to move on to. #1 had left his medevac job and got a job with a small regional airline. #2 soon followed to the same company. I used their knowledge of the industry and their networking skills (after all, THEY knew the Chief Pilot where I was applying to.. I didn't). #'s 2 and 3 gave me a good reference, and shortly after #3 went to the same small regional airline, I was hired on to the medevac company. The company I got on with was part of my one and only short roadtrip. No sleeping in camper vans or the back of a pickup truck for me.
In 2009, #1 had left for Jazz, and #2 and 3 were at the regional airline as junior captains. Already tired of the medevac lifestyle, they again gave me a good reference and I got hired on there. Coincidentally, a guy I knew from the flight school was now an instructor looking to break into the industry. He used my knowledge and networking to try and land a new job, and so I gave my Chief Pilot his resume. He ended up taking my job when I left the medevac company. Soon after, he followed me to the small regional airline using the same method.
So where are we all now 5 years later? # 1 is at AC, 2 is at Westjet, 3 is at Sunwing, I'm at Jazz and my buddy is a senior F/O at the small airline looking at an upgrade soon, and he's probably helping some past student of his to help land that first job too. The cycle continues... The pipeline keeps producing.
So even if you haven't talked to them in years, shoot them an email to let them know where you are and what your goals are. If you had a good rapport, they just might give you that referral that gets you your first job. After all, it's not WHAT you know, it's WHO you know!
And finally, don't forget to pay it forward. That person you help out? They just might end up one day on the hiring committee of that company you want to work for!
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Interesting about the networking...When we have one of our pilots recommed a buddy, we ask how much he flew with the buddy to know how he flew. What he knew about the buddy in general..We found it was very easy to be a good guy and recommed someone even if you never actually knew how they flew or knew them very well at all...had enough bad experiences that we are very skeptical at this point about internal references. Some pilots working for a company seem to be more interested in helping a fellow out than the company..not intentionally , of course, but simply that they dont consider the consequences of recommeding someone they really dont know...just saying.
The real problem is twofold for new CPL's. The first is that they do not have a directed job hunt...They work very hard firing arrows in every direction without having a specific target....just a job flying.
Lots of effort...Lots of it...wasted carpet bombing every operator.
The solution is to do some research.. If you are willing to go the ramp rat route, find out which companies hire and promote from the ramp..look at their pay and overall turnover...the AvCanada jobs ads are a good indication of a company's hriring.. Focus on them
If you are wanting to go to the bush, then focus on the bush companies. A company that year after year is hiring float pilots in July, gives you an indication of how they treat employees.
Remember, you are one of about1000 carpet bombing the companies, and you face the paradoxical challange of trying to stand out on one hand, and not wanting to appear to stand out on the other...they are looking for team players, not top aces.
The second issue is that many new CPLs want to talk about their career goals, not what they can do for the company, though they will pay lip service to that.. A quick and good interview will bring that to light..you may be smarter than the average bear, but the people hiring have typically been dealing with many many smart bears over the years, and have learned how to assess what is really going on. Keep that in mind .
The whole complaint of how do I get experience if no one will hire me is not a good one to bring up..Indicates what you think is important about getting the job does it not?
Anyway, I suspect this will pretty much fall on deaf ears, so good luck in your job hunt.
The real problem is twofold for new CPL's. The first is that they do not have a directed job hunt...They work very hard firing arrows in every direction without having a specific target....just a job flying.
Lots of effort...Lots of it...wasted carpet bombing every operator.
The solution is to do some research.. If you are willing to go the ramp rat route, find out which companies hire and promote from the ramp..look at their pay and overall turnover...the AvCanada jobs ads are a good indication of a company's hriring.. Focus on them
If you are wanting to go to the bush, then focus on the bush companies. A company that year after year is hiring float pilots in July, gives you an indication of how they treat employees.
Remember, you are one of about1000 carpet bombing the companies, and you face the paradoxical challange of trying to stand out on one hand, and not wanting to appear to stand out on the other...they are looking for team players, not top aces.
The second issue is that many new CPLs want to talk about their career goals, not what they can do for the company, though they will pay lip service to that.. A quick and good interview will bring that to light..you may be smarter than the average bear, but the people hiring have typically been dealing with many many smart bears over the years, and have learned how to assess what is really going on. Keep that in mind .
The whole complaint of how do I get experience if no one will hire me is not a good one to bring up..Indicates what you think is important about getting the job does it not?
Anyway, I suspect this will pretty much fall on deaf ears, so good luck in your job hunt.
Last edited by trey kule on Sun Sep 23, 2012 3:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Interesting points chaps! Trey, that is very true, I reccomended a GOOD personal friend who I had ACTUALLY physically flown with. Known him for years. In the end, he buggered off somewhere else with a fresh ppc renewal. One of those egg in the face moments. At this point. The only people I will actually recommend, generally dont NEED the reference and can be counted on one hand. Thats not to say I wont mention to someone that there may be an open spot at X company soon or that we may be soon looking to fill Y spot with X person. But I'm not sticking my neck out with a reccomend or reference. Even having flown with someone a handful of times is not good enough. But that doesnt mean I can lend some advice, even though it usually as you say, falls on deaf ears as well.
I'd also like to reiterate the point as was usually overstated by xsbank (miss your posts brother!) that you should APPLY WHERE YOU WANT TO WORK. And again.. someone else said it best.. carpet bombing doesnt usually work. Pick the direction you want to go, target the companies that you would want to work for and will get you where you need to be going! i.e.; if you wanna fly floats.. why the hell are you sending resumes to a navajo or king air op? If you want to go to the airlines.. why are you bugging the guys with a beaver and otter?
I'd also like to reiterate the point as was usually overstated by xsbank (miss your posts brother!) that you should APPLY WHERE YOU WANT TO WORK. And again.. someone else said it best.. carpet bombing doesnt usually work. Pick the direction you want to go, target the companies that you would want to work for and will get you where you need to be going! i.e.; if you wanna fly floats.. why the hell are you sending resumes to a navajo or king air op? If you want to go to the airlines.. why are you bugging the guys with a beaver and otter?
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maverick24
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Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Thank you all for your replies.
Re: Not flying and not getting any calls despite my efforts.
Have you tried introducing yourself as Maverick?
As pilot I often turn to for career advice once told me, "Finding a job in aviation is like trying to pick up at the bar. You either need to be a real smooth talker or make it obvious to everyone you're desperate." But the fact is most people don't meet at bars, but meeting through a friend or acquaintance. As mentioned here already aviation is a pretty small industry and it's amazing how many times you can run across the same faces at different companies.
As pilot I often turn to for career advice once told me, "Finding a job in aviation is like trying to pick up at the bar. You either need to be a real smooth talker or make it obvious to everyone you're desperate." But the fact is most people don't meet at bars, but meeting through a friend or acquaintance. As mentioned here already aviation is a pretty small industry and it's amazing how many times you can run across the same faces at different companies.
