Instructing in addition to 9-5 job.

[CanadaRyan]

Hey guys,

This may be an odd question, but perhaps some of you have some insight. I'm not that far out of University, and have a 9-5 job that I enjoy and don't want to give up. I also want to fly (particularly instruct and teach people) and was wondering if there are people out there who do both? I don't mean this to be a stepping stone to a major airline, I mean work my office job full-time and teach in evenings or especially the weekends. Is that realistic? Or would the flying school expect you to be available all day, every day for them? To me it seems like a great way to combine two passions.

Thanks

[Melkor]

Hello Ryan,

Im in the process of doing my CPL and im expecting to do Instructing after to pile up the hours, I have a weekend job and my flight school Air Richelieu here in YHU said it would be ok for me to work monday through thursday only, yes they usually do need part time instructors. Just go see the flight schools in your area and explain your intentions and im sure one of them will welcome you. Flight schools are always in need of instructors.

[Shiny Side Up]

There's a guy here you should talk to. Bluenote I think the name is...

[5x5]

It can be done, but it's much harder than you think.

The school may be able to fit in some flights, but mostly discovery flights or sight-seeing. Depending on how busy the school is that may not be many flights. And since the flights are with one-time customers they tend to be scheduled for the customer's convenience, not yours. So it could easily be one flight, in the middle of the day. Or two flights a couple of hours apart. What do you do im between? Sounds good right now, but when it disrupts your whole Saturday, after a while - not so nice. It's hard to schedule students since most students want to fly more regularly than you're likely to be available. And the school will probably expect you to take pretty much every booking, even if it conflicts with other things you'd like to do. They may well feel that if they are accommodating your desire for part-time flying, they want you to accomodate their needs on the schedule.

And while it may seem that you have lots of time outside your "real" job, remember that getting to and from the airport and prepping the plane and dealing with the customers will add easily 2 hours to the flight-time and suddenly one 1/2 hour discovery flight uses up a whole evening.

Everything I've said doesn't mean it can't work, just want to make sure your eyes are wide open and you're ready for the reality of it. And absolutely make sure that you confirm and re-confirm both your and the CFI's expectations before you agree to go ahead.

[bluenote]

9 out of 10 schools want you there seven days a week, 8 hours a day. You really have to find a school that will hire you part time and keep bugging them. Don't forget that it's all about them (the school) and not you. I got a job and was told it was full time and weekends and I agreed and tried hard but just couldn't fullfill my side so I was let go and I understood one hundred percent. If I had another chance at the school that let me go I would make sure that I fullfilled my end now that I got a better understanding.

So my suggestion again, if you want part time you better find a school that maybe it's small enough that can take you.

ciao

[Colonel Sanders]

I know lots of guys that have a full-time cube job
and instruct evenings and weekends. It's been
going on for decades.

Generally, they're older, higher-time instructors
that aren't ever going to move to someplace that
starts with Fort or Lake to fly PopNChips in the
right seat of a clapped-out twin.

Once students get burned once or twice by younger
instructors that build time and leave town as fast as
they can, the part-time instructors - who generally
have the same schedule as their students who also
work 9-5 M-F - are in good demand.

If you're good at what you do - and can create value -
you're always going to be in demand, unless there's
a nuclear war and only Keith Richards and cockroaches
are left.

[Shiny Side Up]

I know lots of guys that have a full-time cube job
and instruct evenings and weekends. It's been
going on for decades.

Generally, they're older, higher-time instructors
that aren't ever going to move to someplace

There are however a lot of (more than you'd maybe think) older, low time instructors as well. I wouldn't always assume that age = lots of flying experience. Low time instructors who can't work full time are hard to hire for a school. In most cases its more trouble than its worth, that is to say if you're a CFI who, you know, supervises his charges. I keep telling people this , but if you're interested in instructing, bite the bullet and spend a summer to get your class 3 upgrade, then you're stylin'. A part time class 4 unfortunately isn't much use to anyone. Of course if you have lots of experience can bring something rare or unique to the table, take a shot. I don't think that's where our OP is sitting though.

[bluenote]

Hey Colonel, first of all thanks for the great posts. Your expertise goes a long way for us rookies.

Second, where are all these schools that would like to hire an older type of flight instructor like me that only wants to instruct on a part time basis or even full time. I am in my in my 40's with a class 4 instructor rating and I was let go from my other job because they wanted me there at least 6 days a week. I also have another full time job but only work 3 days a week and I always wanted to instruct my other days from my 'full time' job.

Nobody that I have applied doesn't want to hire somebody like me part time, I thought that schools would like to have somebody mature that would stay there on a permanent basis growing with the school and my commitment would be to that school, my intention is not to be a pilot flying heavy shiny metal or anything larger than a cessna four seater.

I guess i'll keep applying and willing to bite the bullet and work full time until I get my class 3 and then maybe i'll retire from my other job and instruct full time.

Again Colonel keep up the great comments.

bluenote

[Shiny Side Up]

Second, where are all these schools that would like to hire an older type of flight instructor like me that only wants to instruct on a part time basis or even full time.

Since you appear not to be able to learn from the experience of others, hopefully this post will help others. I think you found the only one who was willing to give you a chance, and I hate to say it you squandered it. Fight instruction is a full time job, and I don't mean 9-5, monday to friday by that description. Hell, a majority of aviation is, so I'm not sure why people expect it when they get into it. Anyone who instructs part time and is worth while at one time made the sacrifice of going hard core for that short little bit. A good friend of mine got his instructor rating the same time I did but instead of being in his twenties like me, he started in his late fifties. He figured it out and bit the bullet and did a summer of cadet training, then he went to part time and was very successful at that until he decided to give it up. When I asked him why he stopped, he said that while he enjoys instructing (he was a retired school teacher, man had the patientce of a saint) staying at a current level of proficiency to instruct just took too much time, the demands of his students not withstanding.

Nobody that I have applied doesn't want to hire somebody like me part time,

The problem with part time workers is that with flying you need them to be part time on the employer's schedule (and thus the customer's schedule) not the employee's schedule. This is an alien concept to many that work isn't supposed to be convinient. Its ok for McDonalds or Walmart to hire part time workers on the employee's schedule since they can get enough employees to cover all the shifts they need - I doubt that there are many flight schools that have as many employees as your average wal-mart or fast food joint. Its all about that whole commitment of time. There is not a single instructor that is successful (and skilled) who hasn't somewhere along the line put in the time.

I guess part of the problem is that there are different definitions of the term "part time". Since you respect the Colonel, ask him how much time he chunks in at the airport as a "part time" flight instructor.

[Colonel Sanders]

how much time he chunks in at the airport as a "part time" flight instructor

What SSU is trying to point out is that as a part-time instructor,
you can reasonably expect to spend every evening and weekend
at the airport, which is almost like having two full-time jobs. You
could expect to burn vacation days going flying, too.

Don't expect to have much (any) of a life while you're doing this!

Only for single (or about to be divorced) guys. As I have said
many times before, my ATPL cost me my first marriage, and
my ICAS card cost me my second. Not many people are willing
to make those kinds of sacrifices, in my experience.

[Shiny Side Up]

Isn't being divorced one of the prerequisites for an aviation sainthood nomination?

[Colonel Sanders]

Friend of mine, he's been divorced 6 times now. Impressively,
all different women - no retreads. A pilot, of course. And
evidence would suggest, an optimist!

What I found fascinating is that although the adjacent ex-wives
despised each other - which I guess makes sense - the
non-adjacent ex-wives got along very well.

When he turned 50, ex-wives #1, #3, and #5 threw him a
birthday party. Or was it ex-wives #2, #4 and #6? It's been
quite a few years, I honestly can't remember which set of
ex-wives it was.

This was the guy who taught me do to approaches with 60
(no typo, 60) degrees of flaps in a buck fifty. I also learned
that Cessnas do one thing well - descend.

[shamrock104]

Upgrading to a Class 3 while Instructing part time or casual is extremely difficult. I attempted this and because my availability was limited I was given a lot of Discovery flights, the odd walk in, weekend students who had their own Instructors who happened to be off and the like. I bit the bullet a few years ago and took six weeks off from work to go and teach Air Cadets. This was extremely enjoyable and rewarding and a keener bunch I have not come across. It was hard work getting 4 students through in the 6 weeks but on doing so got my Class 3. Just a quick one here for you Bluenote, you will be waiting a very long time for the Class 3 as you suggest and of course before you know it you will be completing a renewal.

[Colonel Sanders]

Upgrading to a Class 3 while Instructing part time or casual is extremely difficult

Really? I did it, and so have many other people.

Try getting your class 1 instructor & class 1 aerobatic
instructor without being full-time. Try doing it with
a full-time high-tech job at the same time. Took me
10 years to go from class 4 to class 1, thinking about
it. But I had an awful lot of fun doing it. Got my ATPL
and a bunch of other pieces of paper along the way.

I guess people these days are all in such a tremendous
hurry to get someplace. Pity they don't have time to
enjoy the journey.

[Shiny Side Up]

Upgrading to a Class 3 while Instructing part time or casual is extremely difficult

Really? I did it, and so have many other people.

You must admit Colonel, that you do have some advantage in said area. I'd suspect that you didn't get an instructor rating raight after you rushed through your commercial no? Finding part time instructor work is a lot easier if one has something else to throw into the hat, tailwheel or float experience being the two that come to mind but there's others as well. Upgrading to a class 3 in reality isn't hard, it just takes time, and that's where a majority get frustrated or impatient with the process and go find something else to do. So many think that they get the rating and boom! there's students all over the place needing their services. I would say that building up clientele is the biggest thing that takes time. There's that word again.

[shamrock104]

My wording "extremely difficult" could probably be taken at face value. Yes, the upgrade is fairly straight forward if you are a competent Instructor. What I could have explained a little better is indeed the time it can take to upgrade if you are only casual.
This I suppose also depends on the actual school where you Instruct, if students are thin on the ground in the first place its probably going to take a lot longer to upgrade. I was a little impatient as I wanted to be able to gain enough experience to go and Instruct overseas on fairly short term contracts which my current employment allows me to do.

[mcrit]

Upgrading to a Class 3 while Instructing part time or casual is extremely difficult.

It is time consuming doing it that way. I believe that I did 3 renewals of my class 4.

Your career progress as a part time instructor is a function of timing and location. I was lucky enough to start instructing in the GTA pre 9/11. I got hired part time at the very first place I dropped off a resume. I worked my way through to a class 1 rating working part time. Took me about 6 years, working in the GTA.
Fast forward to the present; I just renewed my class 1 here in Winnipeg with the intention of picking up some extra part time work. Nobody is interested in a part time instructor here.

[Edelweiss air]

This was the guy who taught me do to approaches with 60
(no typo, 60) degrees of flaps in a buck fifty. I also learned
that Cessnas do one thing well - descend.

An extra 10 degrees of flap per door?