Go to Asia

[Panama Jack]

One of my favorites.

[bmc]

One of my favorites.

Their Turkish bread with humus? The stalls with the curtains?

I miss the place.

GF or DHL?

[BE20 Driver]

If it were really the land of opportunity, I think I'd expect to see jobs for everyone. I'm at 2700 hours and ATPL. I guess in airline terms that is still low time. I don't see anything that a guy like me could fit into. I guess there are no shortcuts.

[Joe Blow Schmo]

I'll half agree with the OP.

There are and will be lots of opportunities for experienced captains in Asia. In the next 20 years there are predictions that Asia will require more new pilots than all the pilots that currently exist in the world today. In the last couple of years, pay has risen significantly for almost all contracts advertised in the area (but don't believe all the figures you see advertised). However FOs and low-timers have very limited opportunities. Contract wise, FO contracts almost never offer opportunities for promotion so it's a dead end job. Some of the permanent jobs that hire low-timers/FOs (Air Asia et al) offer garbage salaries and working conditions. You'll make just as much or more flying a navajo in Canada.

Somebody mentioned the Philippines. It may be true that they are short of pilots, but when you consider that a wide body captain in the Philippines makes less money than a Beaver driver up north, do you really want to guess what an FO might make? Plus the Philippines is an FAA category 2 country (due to failure to comply with ICAO safety standards) and they are on the European blacklist.

My opinion is get your hours and experience in Canada and then look to Asia when you have the experience to qualify for the good jobs. Most Asian countries have archaic labour laws and little to no protections for employees. As such you really don't want to be stuck in a crappy, low paying, FO job that treats you badly with no recourse. Much better to be experienced, well paid, and in demand so you can walk away if you don't like the operation.

[traveller123]

You say the pay is really cheap for a low timer, isn't this situation in Canada?

I'm a lot better interested about a F0 position in a wide-body aircraft (on contract) than work on a 172 in Canada for 20k/year. At least you get and built jet hours. In Asia you can pass from a low timer to a captain in two years, what about Canada? 15 years?

The only thing I care for the 5 first years of my career is eat well, no more.

[Nark]

Have a look at http://www.flightglobal.com/jobs/default.aspx. Scroll through the job listings.

I think there may be: 1, one, un, Eine, Ichi, one, job out of several hundred that do not require a type, in addition to time on type.

If you really want to fly a widebody with 250 hours, look at cadet programs. Thai, Cathay, etc...

It's you're career. Pursue you goals as you wish...

[Joe Blow Schmo]

You say the pay is really cheap for a low timer, isn't this situation in Canada?

I'm a lot better interested about a F0 position in a wide-body aircraft (on contract) than work on a 172 in Canada for 20k/year. At least you get and built jet hours. In Asia you can pass from a low timer to a captain in two years, what about Canada? 15 years?

The only thing I care for the 5 first years of my career is eat well, no more.

traveller, this is why pay and conditions in this industry are on a downward trend. If you get a job flying a Navajo for $50k your making a reasonably fair, industry standard salary for that job. If you take a job as an FO on a widebody jet for $50k you're making less than half of industry standard and are putting downward pressure on the rest of our salaries. You don't have to sell yourself cheaply to get where you want to be. Plenty of us have got there without undercutting our colleagues.

And you won't get an contract FO job without a type rating and ~500 hours on type. Or at the very least, time on a similar type.

[dbalcaen]

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[North Shore]

You say the pay is really cheap for a low timer, isn't this situation in Canada?

I'm a lot better interested about a F0 position in a wide-body aircraft (on contract) than work on a 172 in Canada for 20k/year. At least you get and built jet hours. In Asia you can pass from a low timer to a captain in two years, what about Canada? 15 years?

The only thing I care for the 5 first years of my career is eat well, no more.

Pretty arrogant to think that after two years, you've got the experience to sit in the left seat of a commercial jet..

[trey kule]

I never cease to be amazed by the wisdom shared by those that know nothing of Asia, and what is really going on. I wonder where you get such knowledge

China is now,and for the next few years, I believe,short of experienced captains. They are training pilots domestically like there is no tomorrow. And yes they are building airports.but there are some serious infrastructure and political issues that are holding back growth. There was,in fact some planes sitting in Beijing due to crew shortages, but the shortages were a result of a delay in pilot licensing.

China is not the middle east. Hong kong is England lite. Shanghai and beijing are modern cities.....with terrible pollution issues. But they are not third world, particularly for expats.

Btw.....they speak Mandarin in Beijing, not Cantonese. And I don't think you have a chance in heck of a left seat upgrade in two years without previous time on type. Lots of domestic first officers coming on stream. There is actually low time pilots in china going overseas for work due to lack of opportunity

[alwayswannafly]

On a unrelated note, realistically speaking how well are Canadian licenses regconized compared to say FAA and JAA or even CAA (Australia)? Would having a Canadian license any better then the ones I've mentioned? I am very curious since I am one of the cadet from one of the ''airlines from the East'' coming to train in Canada.

From what I can tell, more and more foreign pilots are being replaced in our airline by cadets who finished their training in EU, USA and Australia, you would still have a shot but you need good English and at least 500 Hrs on type, that's definitely true.

Just to add if you ever get a job as F/O over here, it's really good, very good salary (compared to living standard), you would always stay in 5 star hotel for any trips, there's always transportation from work to home, my mother happened to run a bar for expat pilots and some of her customers are as young as 21 and most are F/O on the a320/321 or the Boeing, they really live a good life due to the fact their salary is really high compared to the our pilots.

[bmc]

Just to add if you ever get a job as F/O over here, it's really good, very good salary (compared to living standard), you would always stay in 5 star hotel for any trips, there's always transportation from work to home, my mother happened to run a bar for expat pilots and some of her customers are as young as 21 and most are F/O on the a320/321 or the Boeing, they really live a good life due to the fact their salary is really high compared to the our pilots.

I feel bad for your mother.

[wirez]

It is, if you can speak Cantonese and have the right to work in China.

Have you seen a flight training school lately?

I think you mean mandarin, not Cantonese, which is mainly spoken in HKG. None of the Hong Kong airlines have a Chinese language requirement.

[alwayswannafly]

Just to add if you ever get a job as F/O over here, it's really good, very good salary (compared to living standard), you would always stay in 5 star hotel for any trips, there's always transportation from work to home, my mother happened to run a bar for expat pilots and some of her customers are as young as 21 and most are F/O on the a320/321 or the Boeing, they really live a good life due to the fact their salary is really high compared to the our pilots.

I feel bad for your mother.

Why? I think your getting the wrong impression, expat pilots over here, be it Captains or F/O are really courteous, very polite and professional, there's hardly ever a problem with them, the younger guys are fun, there's even a pack of 20 ish guys who've committed to drink only at my mother's bar to help fund my training (yes, that's true).

[bmc]

Just to add if you ever get a job as F/O over here, it's really good, very good salary (compared to living standard), you would always stay in 5 star hotel for any trips, there's always transportation from work to home, my mother happened to run a bar for expat pilots and some of her customers are as young as 21 and most are F/O on the a320/321 or the Boeing, they really live a good life due to the fact their salary is really high compared to the our pilots.

I feel bad for your mother.

expat pilots over here, be it Captains or F/O are really courteous, very polite and professional, there's hardly ever a problem with them, .

Certainly none of the guys I know or have ever met in my lifetime.

[av8tor_assrope]

For what it's worth I have a friend flying for Air Asia on the 320, based in Indonesia. He was hired with exactly 0 hrs on type and no Canadian ATPL. He just kept applying and applying. He actually interviewed with a few asian carriers before getting the job with Air Asia. He's based just outside of Bali with several other Canadians. Most guys he's based with are low time F/O's from other countries. He paid for his type rating through CAE. Yes a lot of people think that's bad. Yes he's being paid peanuts. However, if you ask me I'd rather be flying an A320 in Bali making peanuts while building my time, then making peanuts chucking bags up north "proving myself" while building no time.

Flame away.

[bmc]

For what it's worth I have a friend flying for Air Asia on the 320, based in Indonesia. He was hired with exactly 0 hrs on type and no Canadian ATPL. He just kept applying and applying. He actually interviewed with a few asian carriers before getting the job with Air Asia. He's based just outside of Bali with several other Canadians. Most guys he's based with are low time F/O's from other countries. He paid for his type rating through CAE. Yes a lot of people think that's bad. Yes he's being paid peanuts. However, if you ask me I'd rather be flying an A320 in Bali making peanuts while building my time, then making peanuts chucking bags up north "proving myself" while building no time.

Flame away.

Av8tor assrope?

Ladies and Gentlemen, we have the winning username on Avcanada.

(sitting here crying with laughter)