Post removed. No object anymore.
Thanks guys!
Too old?
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Re: 40 years old and career change
Be sure to remove all references to your age from your resume,
That includes date of graduation.
A lot of 703 operators will bin the resumes of older guys because they assume that they won't slave as hard as the 19 year old or that they won't. Be able to handle the 15 hr surprise duty day that starts at 10 pm after staying up all day.
That includes date of graduation.
A lot of 703 operators will bin the resumes of older guys because they assume that they won't slave as hard as the 19 year old or that they won't. Be able to handle the 15 hr surprise duty day that starts at 10 pm after staying up all day.
Re: 40 years old and career change
Thanks!
Last edited by Edi on Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: 40 years old and career change
Hey Edi,
IMHO you have as much of a chance as any of those younger guys. The thing here is not to look older than your age... It's all about perception. If you look old and tired you might be 40 but people will think you're 50. If you look fit and healthy nobody will care about the fact that you're 40.
Now about job hunting. I recently started out myself and got that first gig. I gotta hand it to you that I got lucky yet I also worked hard to find my first contract. It took me over 7 months of searching and tailoring my application(s).
Some companies aren't shown on Pilot Career Center... thus Yellow Pages can be great, airport visits, making calls to small regional airports and finding out about small operations. Another way you could start your search is by consulting the aircraft registry in Canada and identifying companies with aircraft you've already flown on. This is a pretty easy search and can be helpful because your experience is valued. It doesn't mean you can't apply to other companies with other aircraft either. If you can, find out the name of the Chief Pilot and the Dops, make two cover letters, spell out the person's name and function right and the company name WITHOUT MISTAKES, and if possible, go hand it to them in person. Make sure you leave your papers with a nice black plastic cover, it looks professional and actually makes it stand out from all those resumes stacked together. If you do get to meet the Dops or the Chief Pilot, make sure you already reviewed what you want to tell them and state all your points without sounding like you're reciting a poem. Be calm and confident, first impressions are key.
The other option is what is famously known as carpet-bombing... (not so appreciated and doesn't really make you stand out since chief pilots get LOTS of those and they have close to no time to consult them all). The only way you can stand out by carpet-bombing is cold calling. As a teen I worked lots as a telemarketer and the main ordeal here is getting past that receptionist. Two ways to get past her, befriend her and catch her name, explain your situation humanly and tell her that you'd really appreciate speaking to the CP or DOPS or simply try to ask for the Chief Pilot name. Most often, you'll be offered his or her voicemail. Do not leave a message. I don't know why I'm saying this, but out of experience, I've left one message on a CP's voicemail once, and never got called back. My opinion is unless they want to specifically speak to you, you won't get a call back. So best thing you can do, is keep annoying them once every three weeks until they actually are in their office. If the receptionist is nice enough she'll tell you when he's there and make sure you call back the very same day, maybe a bit earlier and re-check with her to be sure that the CP will be in the office at that time.
This being said about cold-calling and going in person, a lot of places don't like phone calls or surprise visits. If you visit, make sure you call before. Some places appreciate coming in person and other places despise it as they very often get hassled by 200h and + wonders like me and you.
Last but not least, you could become an instructor, get to know a few private operators, make friends, find out where local pilots go and have drinks and buy a few beers. Networking is key in this small industry and you work on networking every day of your life. To give you an idea, I come from a non-aviation background and even to this day still find that although networking isn't always easy, it still is the best way to come about a job.
Best of luck and hope that eventhough I am young and not experienced, my advice may somehow guide you.
IMHO you have as much of a chance as any of those younger guys. The thing here is not to look older than your age... It's all about perception. If you look old and tired you might be 40 but people will think you're 50. If you look fit and healthy nobody will care about the fact that you're 40.
Now about job hunting. I recently started out myself and got that first gig. I gotta hand it to you that I got lucky yet I also worked hard to find my first contract. It took me over 7 months of searching and tailoring my application(s).
Some companies aren't shown on Pilot Career Center... thus Yellow Pages can be great, airport visits, making calls to small regional airports and finding out about small operations. Another way you could start your search is by consulting the aircraft registry in Canada and identifying companies with aircraft you've already flown on. This is a pretty easy search and can be helpful because your experience is valued. It doesn't mean you can't apply to other companies with other aircraft either. If you can, find out the name of the Chief Pilot and the Dops, make two cover letters, spell out the person's name and function right and the company name WITHOUT MISTAKES, and if possible, go hand it to them in person. Make sure you leave your papers with a nice black plastic cover, it looks professional and actually makes it stand out from all those resumes stacked together. If you do get to meet the Dops or the Chief Pilot, make sure you already reviewed what you want to tell them and state all your points without sounding like you're reciting a poem. Be calm and confident, first impressions are key.
The other option is what is famously known as carpet-bombing... (not so appreciated and doesn't really make you stand out since chief pilots get LOTS of those and they have close to no time to consult them all). The only way you can stand out by carpet-bombing is cold calling. As a teen I worked lots as a telemarketer and the main ordeal here is getting past that receptionist. Two ways to get past her, befriend her and catch her name, explain your situation humanly and tell her that you'd really appreciate speaking to the CP or DOPS or simply try to ask for the Chief Pilot name. Most often, you'll be offered his or her voicemail. Do not leave a message. I don't know why I'm saying this, but out of experience, I've left one message on a CP's voicemail once, and never got called back. My opinion is unless they want to specifically speak to you, you won't get a call back. So best thing you can do, is keep annoying them once every three weeks until they actually are in their office. If the receptionist is nice enough she'll tell you when he's there and make sure you call back the very same day, maybe a bit earlier and re-check with her to be sure that the CP will be in the office at that time.
This being said about cold-calling and going in person, a lot of places don't like phone calls or surprise visits. If you visit, make sure you call before. Some places appreciate coming in person and other places despise it as they very often get hassled by 200h and + wonders like me and you.
Last but not least, you could become an instructor, get to know a few private operators, make friends, find out where local pilots go and have drinks and buy a few beers. Networking is key in this small industry and you work on networking every day of your life. To give you an idea, I come from a non-aviation background and even to this day still find that although networking isn't always easy, it still is the best way to come about a job.
Best of luck and hope that eventhough I am young and not experienced, my advice may somehow guide you.
Re: 40 years old and career change
Don't ever give up. While I flew when I was a teenager I never pursued it to a career. At about age 35 I did my commercial, multi-ifr, and instructor. I also had a family and had to be pretty selective on what and where I could go. It took 2 years to get an instructing job part time since I was working full time as a Millwright. I instructed for 7 years and also did some charter work on a Navajo when I could. At age 45 I landed a jet job. Although it was sitting sideways on a 727 for 2 years, I've been right seat for 4 now. I got this job through connections I made as an instructor. Might be worth looking into that route. This industry is more who you know than what you know. Good luck.
Re: 40 years old and career change
Thanks to the posters. It's refreshing and encouraging.
Re: Too old?
Quote: "Be sure to remove all references to your age from your resume,
That includes date of graduation.
A lot of 703 operators will bin the resumes of older guys because................"
Weasel operators get around this by demanding that you provide a photocopy of your Transport Canada pilot licence. This of course shows your date of birth, from which even the thickest operators can work out your age.
Complaints have been made to Transport Canada, the Canadian Human Rights Commission and MPs to have all reference to age and date of birth removed from TC licences to avoid this age discrimination but so far without success. Transport Canada is thus a willing accomplice and/or accessory in age discrimination and abuse of human rights. You can help oppose this by also registering complaints with TC and the Canadian Human Rights Commission and by asking your MP to act to stop this age related abuse of human rights.
Note that an ethical air operator that does not abuse human rights will expect you to show it your TC pilot licence and provide a photocopy of the licence AFTER it has given you a letter of appointment. Any air operator/chief pilot that asks you to mail/fax/email a copy of your licence with your resume/application or BEFORE interviewing you is obviously using this for age discrimination. This is a warning sign - you can be certain that this will be a foretaste of an abusive work situation from an unethical air operator and that there will be other issues in working for such a sleazebag. Keep well clear of such operators!
For those pilots interested in non-aviation employment, either part time while flying or after retiring from aviation, note that similar representations have been made to provinces and MLAs to have any reference to age or date of birth removed from a driver's abstract. Road transport operators who demand abstracts with applications or before giving a letter of appointment are also discriminating against older applicants.
That includes date of graduation.
A lot of 703 operators will bin the resumes of older guys because................"
Weasel operators get around this by demanding that you provide a photocopy of your Transport Canada pilot licence. This of course shows your date of birth, from which even the thickest operators can work out your age.
Complaints have been made to Transport Canada, the Canadian Human Rights Commission and MPs to have all reference to age and date of birth removed from TC licences to avoid this age discrimination but so far without success. Transport Canada is thus a willing accomplice and/or accessory in age discrimination and abuse of human rights. You can help oppose this by also registering complaints with TC and the Canadian Human Rights Commission and by asking your MP to act to stop this age related abuse of human rights.
Note that an ethical air operator that does not abuse human rights will expect you to show it your TC pilot licence and provide a photocopy of the licence AFTER it has given you a letter of appointment. Any air operator/chief pilot that asks you to mail/fax/email a copy of your licence with your resume/application or BEFORE interviewing you is obviously using this for age discrimination. This is a warning sign - you can be certain that this will be a foretaste of an abusive work situation from an unethical air operator and that there will be other issues in working for such a sleazebag. Keep well clear of such operators!
For those pilots interested in non-aviation employment, either part time while flying or after retiring from aviation, note that similar representations have been made to provinces and MLAs to have any reference to age or date of birth removed from a driver's abstract. Road transport operators who demand abstracts with applications or before giving a letter of appointment are also discriminating against older applicants.
Re: Too old?
Carrier...that advice is not 100% correct.
Before the interview our company asks for a copy of your pilots license, passport etc. it has nothing to do with age discrimination as you claimed, and everything to do with confirming the person actually holds a license, valid passport.....you would be surprised how many resumes make claims that are a bit exaggerated....that ATPL. well when we ask for a copy , it is a cold or frozen one, and what's shows up is a CPL. That valid passport....well it does not really exactly exist...but one has been applied for.
Your simple claim that the only reason is age discrimination is way off the mark.
Now, having said that, age does play a part as someone alluded to, particularly when it comes with experience....means most people with the wisdom of age, and a log book full of time will not accept some of the working conditions the young,eager, and stupid are willing to put up with, and have the audacity to want fair pay and more than five days a year off. Skuzz bag employers know this,and probably do discriminate...but that is a good thing ultimately for old guys...and behold, I mean over 55.
Before the interview our company asks for a copy of your pilots license, passport etc. it has nothing to do with age discrimination as you claimed, and everything to do with confirming the person actually holds a license, valid passport.....you would be surprised how many resumes make claims that are a bit exaggerated....that ATPL. well when we ask for a copy , it is a cold or frozen one, and what's shows up is a CPL. That valid passport....well it does not really exactly exist...but one has been applied for.
Your simple claim that the only reason is age discrimination is way off the mark.
Now, having said that, age does play a part as someone alluded to, particularly when it comes with experience....means most people with the wisdom of age, and a log book full of time will not accept some of the working conditions the young,eager, and stupid are willing to put up with, and have the audacity to want fair pay and more than five days a year off. Skuzz bag employers know this,and probably do discriminate...but that is a good thing ultimately for old guys...and behold, I mean over 55.
