Good SE BC airplane choice.......

[Rookie50]

Placing this on the general thread.

Hey; an outfit I am associated with is considering different durable SE airplane choices; for ministry / service flying into BC First Nations communities. Just beginning the research.

Needs are space; (people and / or stuff decent range / useful load, possibly suitable for gravel strips (not sure how much need for this) / reasonably short fields. Need 5- 6 seats, prefer removable.

The 2 I can think of right off hand are either a C206, or a piper 32 R Lance / Saratoga; possibly turbo -- as I see this being used in BC. Not sure how important this is --- as will be mainly a VFR operation.

My questions are more on the Saratoga; in regards to the gear on rough fields; prop clearance; and the maintenance "gotcha's" on this model. Any comments on the turbo system and issues related for either AC; or the vacuum and electrical systems; are appreciated too. Thanks

Other suitable airplane suggestions or related advice are welcome too --- we're talking a reasonably modest budget though!

[Beefitarian]

My understanding of this thread viewtopic.php?f=54&t=77625 made it seem like the regular Cherokee six might be a better choice unless there was a particular Lance or Saratoga you had in mind.

[MrWings]

185

[Rookie50]

My understanding of this thread viewtopic.php?f=54&t=77625 made it seem like the regular Cherokee six might be a better choice unless there was a particular Lance or Saratoga you had in mind.

No; there isn't. Excellent thread thanks Beef. Seems like a straight gear 6 - 300HP would be worth considering. I am really looking for the space and useful load; but the seats are nice to have up to 6 as well.

[Beefitarian]

I don't typically seem to think normal but looks like the fixed gear should be more robust so it might handle rough fields better. I liked the idea of a Lance before that thread.

My desires regarding flying have really changed in the last couple of years. I used to want to own a plane that I could take my wife, kids and father on trips, with full tanks. Now I'm thankful for the opportunity to just rent a 172 a few times a year.

[Bede]

5-6 adults+bags and short range I'd go with a C207, PA32, and C206.

The C207 and C206 carry the same load (actually the C206 carry a few pounds more), but the C207 has way more room inside. The 207 is great for 5-6 people, lots of bags for very short flights.

If you want 5-6 adults and want to go more than 100 miles, you're going to need a Caravan or Quest Kodiak.

[Doc]

Kind of like the Cherokee 6. The 300 HP is a really good airplane. I know a coffin company in the States who uses the 260 HP version to fly caskets around the country. Same door and cabin as a Seneca, I believe. I'm not a fan of the silly big Cessna singles, and the Piper product will carry the same load....and they're a good bit less $$.
If $$ is not an issue, get several folks together and share a Caravan?

[Antique Pilot]

Take a look at a Britain Norman Islander. I flew an older one without injected engines out of Watson Lake YT in the early 1980's. Very solid, low maintenance. Carried a good legal load in and out of some very short high altitude strips.

[rigpiggy]

thats funny an old 206 I flew had a useful load of 1750#, so 6 men 1200+150bags+400# fuel at 16 gal/hr @ 130ktas is roughly 300nm+ a healthy reserve.

[fundi]

You can't go wrong with the 206! Lots of great machines out there, doing what you are about to.
If the strips are really tight or you are often full, consider getting one with either a smidge more power (ie, 550 and new prop combo), or a STOL kit, or if you are really fortunate...BOTH.
If you always need range, the tip tank option is something to look at, but of course your useful load will have to sacrifice, or going say N with a big load, you just take the fuel stop halfway, but if you are empty southbound, then you can fill-er-up and go direct.

VFR in BC...that can be very tricky and the weather will often change fast. You have to have a couple of outs, and be prepared to sit for a day or two. Any a/c with a turbo, will only get you into trouble, IF you are hoping to use it to sneak up and go over the top. There are those who have, and those who have yet to. The turbo might help you get up on top, but it won't be any help to you when you get stuck on top. Just saying.

The pod on a 206 is a necesity for bush work!

In the bush, for the days you have to slow down and add a setting of flap; having a highwing is something you may not always think about, but is a relief on those days. You may spend more time than you think looking down (for known geographical locations), and I have never appreciated a Piper during that type of flying...um, unless its a cub. Different story!

Take care, watch out for the weather...its gonna try and getchya!!

[Doc]

Take care, watch out for the weather...its gonna try and getchya!!

All the planes mentioned will do a fine job. Fly them within their design envelope, and heed well the above. Cheers.

[bagbat]

Check out Found's go-anywhere Expedition aircraft (tricycle or tailwheel versions). It will outperform a 206 for less money and will handle the operational requirements you describe. (Or as a lower cost alternative, buy a used Found Bush Hawk for less money, but almost the same capabilities.

Go to: http://www.expeditionaircraft.com
Blog by a Found Expedition owner: http://www.halls.md/expedition/index.htm
Understanding the Expedition E350 (on a US dealer web site): http://northwestbackcountryaircraft.com ... 0Specs.pdf

[Beefitarian]

Check out Found's go-anywhere Expedition aircraft (tricycle or tailwheel versions). It will outperform a 206 for less money and will handle the operational requirements you describe. (Or as a lower cost alternative, buy a used Found Bush Hawk for less money, but almost the same capabilities.

Go to: http://www.expeditionaircraft.com
Blog by a Found Expedition owner: http://www.halls.md/expedition/index.htm
Understanding the Expedition E350 (on a US dealer web site): http://northwestbackcountryaircraft.com ... 0Specs.pdf

That plane looks prettygood. Why have I not heard about them enough? How much does one cost?

[Rookie50]

You can't go wrong with the 206! Lots of great machines out there, doing what you are about to.
If the strips are really tight or you are often full, consider getting one with either a smidge more power (ie, 550 and new prop combo), or a STOL kit, or if you are really fortunate...BOTH.
If you always need range, the tip tank option is something to look at, but of course your useful load will have to sacrifice, or going say N with a big load, you just take the fuel stop halfway, but if you are empty southbound, then you can fill-er-up and go direct.

VFR in BC...that can be very tricky and the weather will often change fast. You have to have a couple of outs, and be prepared to sit for a day or two. Any a/c with a turbo, will only get you into trouble, IF you are hoping to use it to sneak up and go over the top. There are those who have, and those who have yet to. The turbo might help you get up on top, but it won't be any help to you when you get stuck on top. Just saying.

The pod on a 206 is a necesity for bush work!

In the bush, for the days you have to slow down and add a setting of flap; having a highwing is something you may not always think about, but is a relief on those days. You may spend more time than you think looking down (for known geographical locations), and I have never appreciated a Piper during that type of flying...um, unless its a cub. Different story!

Take care, watch out for the weather...its gonna try and getchya!!

Excellent comments guys. Appreciate all. A couple of added thoughts: First; on VFR / IFR; I am IFR rated but have no mountain experience (I live in the east but am looking at relocation). Hence my caution to jump into IFR ops in BC; at my experience level; also for icing reasons -- imagine there is a fair bit there. All hence my question whether to go turbo or not. I am very much on the cautious side.

Next; I have flown the turbo 206 (briefly) with the STOL and Tip tanks; an amazing short and rough field machine. If my needs will be like that; it is hard to improve on the 206; IMO; for a nosewheel AC anyway. It is possible though my needs will be simply for load; space; reasonable range; and operational needs will all to be paved runways of a reasonable lenth.
In that scenario a Saratoga series would work very well It would seem....not ncessarily a turbo though; like a 1980 with the newer wing If it can be swung; or an older Lance or Cherokee 6. I could step into the the 206 pretty easily; the Saratoga would need more training. Obviously I need to research exactly where I would be going a bit better. I have flown my friend's lance a bit; and I like it at my level; big but very docile and stable in IFR too. Thats where I'm at; I'm researching both the needs and learning about both models a little more; like changes through the years ect.

[Rookie50]

Check out Found's go-anywhere Expedition aircraft (tricycle or tailwheel versions). It will outperform a 206 for less money and will handle the operational requirements you describe. (Or as a lower cost alternative, buy a used Found Bush Hawk for less money, but almost the same capabilities.

Go to: http://www.expeditionaircraft.com
Blog by a Found Expedition owner: http://www.halls.md/expedition/index.htm
Understanding the Expedition E350 (on a US dealer web site): http://northwestbackcountryaircraft.com ... 0Specs.pdf

That plane looks prettygood. Why have I not heard about them enough? How much does one cost?

I Have heard of this one; but expect it would be out of the price range. I will look it up again though.

[bagbat]

Regarding the Found Expedition, you can also visit their YouTube channel and watch plenty of informative videos: http://www.youtube.com/Expeditionair

I believe the "new" pricing is just under $500,000.

I noticed there is also a lightly used Found Bush Hawk for sale ($394,442) from a private owner: http://www.controller.com/listingsdetai ... pcid=11694

[Doc]

It's not how much an airplane costs, but how much money it will make you.
I would think a new Found would be a huge advantage in maintenance and down time alone, over a beat up older 206? Until it gets "lost".....

[Beefitarian]

There's one in Manatoba for less bag.

http://www.controller.com/listingsdetai ... 255497.htm?

I'm guessing the reason I have not heard much about them is price. They're less than the Cessnas but the Cessnas have many decades head start. There's just a lot of them out there.

Sounds like a great plane if you've got the budget for something new.

[Rookie50]

Update on the search. A few more detaills, and questions for those experienced in buying.

This will be an airplane for a very small start up aviation ministry, both for general use and to move people and small amounts of supplies about. Hoped for budget is therefore modest, in the low 100 k area. I would be flying this, and the more I read the more I lean towards the 206, either turbo or one retrofitted with an i0 550. ( I read that's a good engine) Reasons are better short field / slow speed performance than the PA 32 great reputation, ect. Hard to reinvent the wheel, ESP as this
should be set up for work in BC.

One detail, I only foresee perhaps 250-300 odd hours per year....a small part time operation.

My questions...it seems best to try to find one as complete as possible -- cheaper to buy with the options you need than adding later. Regarding engine condition, what would the experienced here do? I have read here that an AC that has sat for awhile is bad news --- is is best to find one with low time SMOH or buy a run out engine and have control over the overhaul? Bit more of a gamble it seems.

One concern with the 206 is continental engines....reading better stuff about lycoming. This is the first AC I will be involved in purchasing, BTW....pretty green on this stuff.

Thoughts?