teacher wrote:Easy, they (WJ) brought the low cost model (read Walmartisation of air travel) to Canada and now have voted to gladly allow a low cost regional airline that has proudly announced plans to pay 80% of average regional salaries with the rumour being "not including Jazz". Awesome job.....
Westjet reacted to the market. The market created this mess so thank your neighbor who wants to go to YVR from YYZ for free....
Why can't airlines protect their own interest and have some internal agreements with other carriers preventing creation of low coast, no service airlines??? Keep their turf protected from low cost "invaders" creating a unofficial alliance amongst each other. Everyone would control their market, control costs and not allow other new comers to undercut them.
Like OPEC does with their oil...not that I'm a fan of it, but the reality is you can't touch them! Yes, oil (as is pharmaceutical or military industry) is no match for airlines, but the amount of traffic airlines move yearly is huge and could possibly make their presence!
Teacher,
The investment to start up a new airline is huge and we have to set it up right. I believe we (WestJet) started out below market median as well and now everyone is playing catch up to our wages and working conditions. Is that not a fair statement? Yet our costs still remain below others.
I also disagree with your statement of being proud to offer 80% market median.
In fact we had a comp and ben meeting last week. Nothing has been decided and we will continue to work on a fair wage keeping career progression in mind. In fact I believe the majority in the room wants us to at least match market median. The details will be available to you at the end of November.
One thing is for certain, change in the industry will never stop! Be open to it or be rigid - I suggest being open.
Listen, I'm not afraid of change, lord knows I've had more than my fair share. I, like many others in this business have reached my limit. Went to dinner with family and they were talking about jobs, salaries, career progression and granted those in the conversation had university degrees but hearing about career progression and getting paid for your experience once it's been gained got me sinking to that sad place. Unreal that after ALL THESE YEARS and thousnands of flight hours, both in the left and right seat, I may once again be applying for an entry level position for a fraction of what I make now. Will it happen? Who knows but it might.
Had another conversation with people about the services provided by airlines like luggage fees, meals and the likes and how things have gone down hill including being charged for everything. What the frig to people expect with such low fares. But remember who started all this in Canada with their "no frills" service that had to be matched by everyone else. I know they reacted to market forces but it's just another step down the ladder in this business.
I believe we (WestJet) started out below market median as well and now everyone is playing catch up to our wages and working conditions. Is that not a fair statement?
That's fair to say, now. Would it be fair to say 10-12 years ago began the pay cuts to compete with you? And the cuts keep coming.
In fact I believe the majority in the room wants us to at least match market median.
Can you confirm the rumor Jazz will not be in the comparator group for determining median?
Between your 80% to matching median and Sky regional, Jazz will be playing catch up for sure, just not the way you're implying.
Isn't it fair to say the lack of compensation at the start or Westjet was easily recuperated with a generous stock program? I believe the original annoucement already touched on the stock program for Westjet Encore pilots, and its not equal to their comrades. I'll concede that the pay rates can't be the same between the two types, but giving one group lower benefits and stock options will create disparity and quickly lead to unionism. Lead by example .. don't follow Air Canada's mistakes.
thanks,
I understand the concept of status pay.
Last year when certain people were commenting on the fact that Jazz was flying the 757 for the same rates, in essence being the worst paying 757 operator out there, some Jazz guys in the know came back with the rate of the 757 before it was blended in to the status rate, I believe it was 158/hour or something like that.
I'm looking for that number for the dash, otherwise I can't see a reasonable way to compare Jazz to the WJ-encore rate when it's released. Can you?
The rates you see are the correct rates for this year ending June 30, 2013. The 'blended' rates have been taken out, since the 757's have left the fleet. First year captain with 80 credit hours per month would receive $74,880 per year. Hope this helps.
Hi Teacher,
Of course Jazz is included in the comparator along with other reputable 705’s including Porter. Are you sure it’s going to be 80%? I’m only asking because I don’t even know and I was in the meetings!
Loc - No I don’t think it’s fair. I for example joined 12 years ago. We didn’t see the splits or options the guys did in the first 4-5 years. I think I made 40 as FO and 70k as a captain.
I would love to debate more openly but I can’ get into the nitty gritty as you can appreciate. All I’m saying is we are gonna try to set it up right and be very competitive.
Inverted - At this point I’m hearing from the HR two separate application portals on the website. My selection team will handle the interviewing for both.
DaveP wrote:Teacher,
The investment to start up a new airline is huge and we have to set it up right. I believe we (WestJet) started out below market median as well and now everyone is playing catch up to our wages and working conditions. Is that not a fair statement? Yet our costs still remain below others.
I also disagree with your statement of being proud to offer 80% market median.
In fact we had a comp and ben meeting last week. Nothing has been decided and we will continue to work on a fair wage keeping career progression in mind. In fact I believe the majority in the room wants us to at least match market median. The details will be available to you at the end of November.
One thing is for certain, change in the industry will never stop! Be open to it or be rigid - I suggest being open.
Cheers!
Dave.
Dave,
Does the "fair pay" system Westjet employes to keep the flight attendants salaries BELOW that of industry standard apply to pilots currently at WJ mainline or will it apply to WJ encore?
I have limited knowledge of the fair pay system other than reading the FA's just lost their top pay scale due to industry wages dropping. Please explain further if you like
Flyer,
The number I'm looking for would essentially involve removing the CRJ portion from the hourly rate, leaving only the dash 8 rate.
The current rate is essentially the average of the CRJ rate and the Dash 8 rate giving the status rate. IE: (CRJ$+DH8$)/2= status$
Teacher if you could dig it out I'd appreciate it, thanks.
Just looking for a fair way to compare apples to apples.
TrailerParkBoy wrote:Now to confuse things, is the pay the same on the classic Dash compares to the almighty Q400?
Yes, if a Dash Classic, Dash Q400 and RJ pilot were all hired the same day, they would all make the same hourly rate until the day they retire, regardless if they switch equipment.
