5 dead as TBM700 crashes on highway

[Liquid Charlie]

Don't forget the factory training -- I know this might ruffle a few feathers but as far as I'm concerned they would never tell you that you couldn't fly their airplane -- they will get you through the training and turn you loose with the full knowledge that there is no way in hell you are ready to blast off single pilot IFR -- fuc_k do a survey here and see how many pilots think single pilot IFR in a navaho is OK -- back in the day (Doc can confirm this) a certain company had higher pilot experience requirements for twin cessna than a twin Otter -- why -- single pilot IFR -- the fact remains -- these guys are having a partially loaded gun placed in their hands -- maybe only one chamber is loaded but they are still pulling the trigger -- sometimes it goes off -- assisted suicide has been legal for a longer than we think --

[MrWings]

do a survey here and see how many pilots think single pilot IFR in a navaho is OK

SPIFR in a Navajo? Sure, why not?

[Doc]

do a survey here and see how many pilots think single pilot IFR in a navaho is OK

SPIFR in a Navajo? Sure, why not?

With a well trained and fairly experienced pilot, a well equipped airplane AND a good serviceable autopilot......sure. Trick is, Mr.Wings, these parameters are FAR from guaranteed. Fact is, there's a Hell of a lot of "that pesky autopilot, just gave up the ghost on the last trip...." Yah, and I spent the weekend with Penelope Cruz! And, we all know it. I'll toss the North Spirit out there as evidence it's not really a good idea, though. Oh, and lets not forget the Winnipeg glider. Both SPIFR in Navajos. Most of the gear up accidents are SPIFR as well. The recent TBM 850 was single pilot. The TBM 700 this thread "was" about was single pilot.......Mr.Wings...it's your move.

[MrWings]

You follow the rules and SPIFR is just as safe as any other flying. You decend below minimums in IFR weather or cheat on the gas, sure those things are going to bite you in the ass.

[Doc]

You follow the rules and SPIFR is just as safe as any other flying. You decend below minimums in IFR weather or cheat on the gas, sure those things are going to bite you in the ass.

Nobody said it couldn't be done.....just doesn't have a very good batting average of late. "A man's go to know his limitations"......and be allowed by the company he works for, to adhere to them. It's far easier to "push" a low time single pilot, than a crew.

[MrWings]

There are many safe SPIFR flight conducted every day by competent pilots who have the training and support to stay out of trouble.

There are better ways to deal with bad operators breaking the rules than penalizing good operators that play by the book.

Private pilot VFR seems to have a bad batting average of late too. Should we ban that?

[Doc]

There are many safe SPIFR flight conducted every day by competent pilots who have the training and support to stay out of trouble.

There are better ways to deal with bad operators breaking the rules than penalizing good operators that play by the book.

Private pilot VFR seems to have a bad batting average of late too. Should we ban that?

How DO you get your knotted knickers up over your ass? Nobody said it can't be done safely???? Did they? Where?
How does any of this "penalize" good operators? I guess there is NO value attached to the passengers who book passage with "bad operators" who break the rules? How would the poor unsuspecting passenger know if the single pilot up front has a frikken clue? It's just less likely that two pilots up front would not have a clue? They book a flight and die....but that's Okay, because Mr.Wings says.."There are many safe SPIFR flights conducted every day......" And there are. How does this help the families of the poor sots who booked the "bad operator", and subsequently died?
Either way, it IS easier to "push" one pilot, than a crew. Far too many accidents are caused by pilots being "pushed" beyond their comfort levels.
I'd be interested in how you would deal with "bad operators"? TC hasn't got the balls to shut down Keystone?????

[MrWings]

So what is your point, Doc?

Is SPIFR bad? Should it be allowed?

Someone asked if SPIFR in a Navajo is a good idea. Being properly trained, having worked for a good operator and having good equipment, I say hell yes. It was sometimes challenging but highly rewarding. In fact, it was probably the most enjoyable time of my career and I never once felt unsafe.

[MrWings]

Either way, it IS easier to "push" one pilot, than a crew. Far too many accidents are caused by pilots being "pushed" beyond their comfort levels.

Debateable. Colgan Air. Air France.

Problem is lack of training and not following the rules.

[Liquid Charlie]

Is SPIFR bad? Should it be allowed?

There is nothing wrong or bad about SPIFR and I think I from what I see Doc agrees with that - what the point is -- it's only OK if the aircraft meets the standards and maintained at that level and that the pilot is at a level where he is comfortable and proficient -- what is happening -- these conditions are not being met.

Also giving a high performance airplane to a private pilot with very little IFR experience and few hours a month is like handing a guy a loaded gun for a game of Russian roulette. I know, as most do, these guys show up all the time on centre freqs in some kind of jack pot - heard many over the years - fortunately most get resolved and one hopes that a wiser pilot has been born but not always

Poorly equipped aircraft and low time pilots is a familiar formula for some of these 703 operators - so yes SPIFR in those cases is a higher risk operation.

[MrWings]

it's only OK if the aircraft meets the standards and maintained at that level and that the pilot is at a level where he is comfortable and proficient

So if someone breaks the rules or doesn't provide proper training then it is bad?

I think that's what I said too.

[Doc]

it's only OK if the aircraft meets the standards and maintained at that level and that the pilot is at a level where he is comfortable and proficient

So if someone breaks the rules or doesn't provide proper training then it is bad?

I think that's what I said too.

I think that's pretty much what we've all been saying. Got to love the internet. Sometimes we agree.....and we still argue about it.
I've done quite a bit of SPIFR. I kind of like it. Sometimes, even prefer it. But I'm not your average young pilot being pushed out the door by unscrupulous companies. So, yes of course SPIFR can be done....very safely. It's all about the carpenter, and the tools.

[cncpc]

It's all about the carpenter, and the tools.

What the...? You're doing SPIFR in a wooden airplane?

[Lost Lake]

Sorry Doc, but the guy selling the high performance machine has a responsibility to his boss?, banker? wallet?, etc. I've said it before, you can't legislate against stupidity. I'm sure that who ever is buying the exotic toy knows about the performance. When are we going to stop blaming others for our stupidity. The courts are full of stupid litigation. It is why the new safety manual for aircraft, vehicles, etc. is 10 times larger than the owner's manual. No matter how much training, explaining, etc. someone will always find a way to do something stupid.

Caveat Emptor?

[Doc]

It's all about the carpenter, and the tools.

What the...? You're doing SPIFR in a wooden airplane?

Only if it's a Mosquito! Good one!

[Colonel Sanders]

I've instructed on the Falco 8L which I think
was all wood. Early Mooneys were wood. The
wings of my Pitts use wood spars and ribs. The
wings of all the early tube & fabric taildraggers
were fabric over wood, too (cub, champ, t-craft,
citabria, decathlon, etc).

The wings of the unlimited aerobatic Dan Rihn
monoplanes (dr-107, dr-109) are wood spar
and ribs, with plywood and fabric covering.

Bellanca Viking uses an elaborate wood wing.

Nothing wrong with a wooden structure for
an aircraft, especially with the insanely good
epoxy glues these days. All you need is good
engineering, and to keep them hangared and dry.

Nature's composite!