Porter to WS Encore. . .

[Kestral]

When it comes to pay, benefits, corp-culture, and morale; any current Porter pilots on here believe a move to WS Encore to be just a lateral move?

I understand that a chance to move up to mainline on the 737 or another base (who knows where yet) would be strong selling points, but other than these points, is there anything else drawing you?

I would think that many of the initial new hires at Encore, especially first 2-4 aircraft, will come from Porter, if not some from Sky Regional, but I'm sure many Porter pilots are thinking about it? I am also sure that some or possibly many may not fit into the WS way of life. Regardless, it will be interesting to see how this all pans out next spring and beyond. Any non Porter people care to throw in their 2 pennies. . .

[Beach 200]

Ya you forgot to mention JAZZ. Considering they have Dash 8 qualified pilots out west! And you don't have to be a Q400 experienced pilot to go to Westjet Encore as captain.

[Flap_Operator]

Ya you forgot to mention JAZZ. Considering they have Dash 8 qualified pilots out west! And you don't have to be a Q400 experienced pilot to go to Westjet Encore as captain.

I doubt many jazz guys will make that move... They could probably go straight to the 737 why take pay cut to go on a similar machine?
Dont forget that these jazz guys have very good salaries for Dash8 pilots.... Im not with jazz, but IMO id rather stick it out at jazz until Westjet calls on the 737, then cut my paycheck, and attach yourself another 2 years or so on a Q400 until you can bid for. 737 job

[Flap_Operator]

Porte i dont know ? It could be a good option, im not aware of their conditions as much

[Kestral]

Yes you are correct. I'm not saying that WS Encore will only hire Q400 pilots. I am not that naive. However, in the initial start-up phase it would probably make more sense to have current and experienced Q400 captains flying the line whether from Porter, Sky Regional, or Jazz.

I would be more surprised to see any Jazz captains making a move over, but maybe some experienced FO's will be looking for a quicker upgrade and they would have less to lose IMHO. I mean how are Jazz pilots feeling about all this shuffling:AC LCC, WS Encore, and Sky Regional EMJ's?? 2013 and beyond will be interesting in regards to aviation in this country. Lots has been going on as of late and the future is looking less appealing.

Many of the opinions expressed on this forum point toward a far less rewarding career as pay, benefits, and schedule deteriorate as the cost of living accelerates. Unfortunately it is the new normal. . .

[airliner]

total lateral move if not slightly down sloped. Reasons would be purely for location

going from Holt Renfrew to the Gap.

[Flap_Operator]

I agree, it will be very interesting in 2013 especially starting next spring, and like you said the industry itself seems to be moving towards LCC's and it sort of became a comon thing to see salaries go down. Pretty sad i must say.

About the move to WJ encore, I've heard that the good thing about porter is that the Captain upgrade comes pretty quick for a Q400 operator... Jazz not so much, you can be sitting in that right seat for a very long time before aspiring a left seat position.... So yeah perhaps it could be a quick upgrade for a young FO with a couple thousand hours on Dash to find himself left seat on the Q for Encore.

I would think they will definately empty out the lower levels, and maybe hire a few experienced 400 pilots on contracts for line indoc and maybe a few guys from skyregional looking for something better.

[Flap_Operator]

Also haha ive noticed that people at jazz seem to overreact and shit their pants when AC comes out with big news.... The. They realize it wasnt such a big deal... Jazz is still a solid company and ImO will continue to be for many years to come.... Not saying all this shifting doesnt affect them... Just not as bad as some employees might think

My two cents

[Mig29]

Agree with you Flap...

[vrrotate]

Well I for one am banking on nobody from, Porter, Jazz, Sky Regional or otherwise applying until after they have hired me. So everyone just wait to apply till I say you can

[Flap_Operator]

Haha wilco

[justwork]

Any Porter captain with any sort of seniority will likely be taking a pay cut working for Encore. Most ACP's are 3-5+ pay scale at Porter. That rate plus the training rate puts them at a base pay of $90K-$100K+

If I wanted to work at WestJet I would apply to WestJet instead of Encore. Making a move to the same machine for less money seems odd.

[tsgas]

As far as applying to WS for B-737 positions , there is a s... load of applicants with experience on type , from companies such as Sun Wing and Can Jet as well as ex-pats wanting to return home.

The DHC-8 experience would also include Provincial and Voyageur.

[Flap_Operator]

The DHC-8 experience would also include Provincial and Voyageur.

That is very true... I would imagine more guys from Voyageur and Regional1 wanting to give Encore a try, especially the guys tired of doing the overseas gig and wanting to get settled back in canada, that would be perfect for them.... It would make much more sense than having a Porter, Jazz or Skyregional guy doing the switch....

[whiteguy]

The DHC-8 experience would also include Provincial and Voyageur.

That is very true... I would imagine more guys from Voyageur and Regional1 wanting to give Encore a try, especially the guys tired of doing the overseas gig and wanting to get settled back in canada, that would be perfect for them.... It would make much more sense than having a Porter, Jazz or Skyregional guy doing the switch....

Also North Cariboo, Sunwest and Hawkair....

[Bede]

Any Porter captain with any sort of seniority will likely be taking a pay cut working for Encore. Most ACP's are 3-5+ pay scale at Porter. That rate plus the training rate puts them at a base pay of $90K-$100K+

If I wanted to work at WestJet I would apply to WestJet instead of Encore. Making a move to the same machine for less money seems odd.

There is something to consider though as well: going to Encore may be a cut in pay, but it's pretty much guaranteed that you will get hired at the mainline within a few years. After the first couple years, it's great money in the RS.

Staying at Porter and holding out for mainline WJ is risky. There are 3000 qualified applicants with 1000 with internal recommends (so I'm told). A busy hiring year (~100/yr) and you're looking at a less than 10% chance of getting hired with more guys applying every year.

I'm a big fan of the sure thing. I'd head to Encore no matter where I was.

[Kosiw]

Will the WAWCON at Encore be so bad ? Seems most posts see it as some sort of "back door" into WJ mainline.

What about those who look at Encore as a possible career and not a stepping stone ? Hope that those in charge at WJ are considering this, when they look to build a core of experience to get the Q400 operation up and running.....there has got to be some incentive to stay (wages/seniority/schedule/lifestyle???)

[Realitychex]

Some of you need to consider that there will inevitably be winners and losers in the industry.

When planning out a career path, consider which organizations have a history of stand alone, verifiable profitability, nationwide and international growth prospects or would likely be the acquirer in any future transaction.

Those are the organizations that will be around and offer you long term stability and advancement prospects.

I can't help but think of all the folks who chose KFC/Greyhound/C3000/Royal/Vistajet over WJ in WJ's early years.

There's a very good reason why all the original pilots at WJ are referred to as "the Royal Family".

[teacher]

Call me a skeptic but don't you think this is what WJ managers want? The chance be a real WJ pilot. All you have to do is go to Encore for the low low price of..................................???

Give a pilot a carrot and what will they do for you?

[Bede]

Teacher,

You may be right, but why is that such a bad thing? Light at the end of a tunnel is a huge part of compensation. Think of surgeons and other medical specialists. In their last few years of residency, they earn $70k and can do pretty much everything a licensed surgeon can. The light at the end of the tunnel is a six figure salary. Pilots may be no different.

I'd much rather get a smaller wage with a big pay wage by the time I'm 30 or so than a marginal wage for the rest of my life.

[teacher]

Will there be 100% flow through? Will only a select number of "team players" move to WJ mainline? I heard only 1 in 4 will move into WJ mainline. What about the rest? Stuck making 80% of industry median? How about I propose a great idea of paying pilots what they're worth rather than sub par wages with the hope of one day making it big. Sounds a hell of a lot better to me.

[Lateralus]

Will there be 100% flow through? Will only a select number of "team players" move to WJ mainline? I heard only 1 in 4 will move into WJ mainline. What about the rest? Stuck making 80% of industry median? How about I propose a great idea of paying pilots what they're worth rather than sub par wages with the hope of one day making it big. Sounds a hell of a lot better to me.

No one on Avcanada or anyone except for a few people know the actual details about what the flow through, compensation will be at Encore. So there is no use speculating and saying pilots are only going to make 80% of this or that or only 1 and 4 will make it through. Teacher you seem to know a hell of a lot more than the actual WJ pilots do somehow.

Even DaveP in another thread asked if you were sure its 80%, no one here knows! So until the actual facts and figures come out it is quite pointless speculating about all of this.

However in my opinion if it is 80% of the median (jazz) I don't think it will be very long, just like when WJ "mainline" started as the company evolved so did the compensation, as I am sure it will with Encore as well.

I was at Jazz for almost 5 years made the switch to WJ. The last year at Jazz was dismal and the morale was low after losing TC, losing travel priority on AC, etc. I know for a fact there are many guys at Jazz who bid the Q400 to get the type rating when WJ announced the plan for the regional.

Interesting times ahead.

[teacher]

No one on Avcanada or anyone except for a few people know the actual details about what the flow through, compensation will be at Encore. So there is no use speculating and saying pilots are only going to make 80% of this or that or only 1 and 4 will make it through. Teacher you seem to know a hell of a lot more than the actual WJ pilots do somehow.

Even DaveP in another thread asked if you were sure its 80%, no one here knows! So until the actual facts and figures come out it is quite pointless speculating about all of this.

However in my opinion if it is 80% of the median (jazz) I don't think it will be very long, just like when WJ "mainline" started as the company evolved so did the compensation, as I am sure it will with Encore as well.

There's good use in speculating because it brings a discussion to the topic of pilot wages in Canada. Something that for too long has just been accepted as "just the way it is".

Not sure what

the median (jazz)

means but Jazz is not the median, it is the top end of the regional wage scale. If it is 80% os the median wage it'd likely be 80% of Porter's wages as they would most likely be the median.

As for the actual deal the Encore folks will get I hope it's a good one for all pilots in this country. I've always said that it was things that I had "heard and never claimed it was fact. We sure will see what WJ offers but I doubt it will be industry leading. Hell, since we're talking about speculation and rumour, heard a good one that if Encore does not pan out as WJ plans it will be boarded up never to be spoken of again. Time will tell how it all works out and whether we at Jazz will have a job by the end of the decade.

As for the morale at Jazz it is up and down. The parade of bad news has been tiring but many are hopeful for the future, again, time will tell.

[DaveP]

Will there be 100% flow through? Will only a select number of "team players" move to WJ mainline? I heard only 1 in 4 will move into WJ mainline. What about the rest? Stuck making 80% of industry median? How about I propose a great idea of paying pilots what they're worth rather than sub par wages with the hope of one day making it big. Sounds a hell of a lot better to me.

[wordstwice]

I think all of you will be very surprised as to how many people at Porter want to make the move to Westjet-or apply at least.

Thats if they ever post the job add