Chisel Charters?

[GTAFI]

I have been noticing ads on Kijiji for Charter and Sightseeing Flights. Looks to me like regular Joes using a club airplane or their own airplane for these activities. Although I could be wrong (I have not verified anything)

Here are some examples, what do you guys think?

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-services-tra ... Z425911862

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-services-tra ... Z423642795

http://toronto.kijiji.ca/c-services-tra ... Z423642064

[co-joe]

Yup that's the grey area known as the chisel charter. Depends how they sell it once you show up with money. As a charter or as a cost shared flight among friends. Also depends if they kill or injure someone (ie if they experience an accident or incident) and how the aircraft insurance company sees their liability in said case. I sure wouldn't send any of my family members along for the ride...

[x-wind]

Definitely illegal if there is not a operating certificate for this operation.

Here is a link to a "Regulations & You" a column in the Aviation Safety Letter. The column is titled "Flying for Money" written by the Advisory and Appeals Division, Policy and Regulatory Services, Civil Aviation, Transport Canada.

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/p ... .htm#money

[MrWings]

This is not a grey area at all. TC will shut them down faster than Donald Trump on Obama's birth certificate.

[MCB]

This inspires confidence:

Details:

- Cessna Aircraft - 4 Seater (Including Pilot)
- Take Off
- Fly To Wherever You May Desire To Go
- Has To be within Ontario
- I can fly you to Ottawa/Montreal/Niagara/London, etc.
- One Way or Return
- I only charge you Per Hour in the Air, not for layovers
- I will only layover for up to 3 hours however

At least he's charging enough to make money and not just cover costs...

[Sidebar]

Hmmm. I need a small package delivered...

[cdnpilot77]

Seems #2 and 3 read avcanada, they are gone already. I think a strategically placed call to the flight school at Buttonville and a call to TC may clear things up for him/her.

[Go Juice]

Or call him up, book a flight and show up with a camera.. take lots of pictures and videos and then call TC

[chk]

"I am currently a full time Flight Instructor for a major flight academy and I've been conducting these scenic flights as a part time job on the side. The airplanes used are highly maintained and extremely reliable. I currently fly the Cessna C172 about an average of 5 times per day.

Thank you for your inquire.

Kamen"

so if i understand this hes using his employers aircraft,insurance, ops cet. hum.....

[costermonger]

All gone now. Pity.

Wonder what his markup was.

[Duncan Idaho]

Met a handful of guys who do chisel charters and they are always always the worst pilots around. Someone should put that in the kijiji user disclaimer. One guy started doing them after I refused to check him out to fly revenue passengers, so he got his own plane that he crashed 3 weeks later.

[MrWings]

All gone now. Pity.

Told you.

Actually, I was coming back to post I bet they're gone by the end of the week. Faster than I thought.

[ahramin]

All gone now. Pity.

Wonder what his markup was.

A pity that instead of posting it here, GTAFI didn't quietly bring it to TC's attention.

[sheephunter]

That would be an interesting flight getting to Montreal without leaving Ontario.

[GTAFI]

All gone now. Pity.

Wonder what his markup was.

A pity that instead of posting it here, GTAFI didn't quietly bring it to TC's attention.

Don't worry, I have these guys info already, TC will be notified.

[Colonel Sanders]

One wonders if this was covered in their ground school:

http://www.pittspecials.com/articles/Compensation.htm

Or if those guys just didn't care who knew that they were
contravening CARs.

[CpnCrunch]

One wonders if this was covered in their ground school:

http://www.pittspecials.com/articles/Compensation.htm

Or if those guys just didn't care who knew that they were
contravening CARs.

I think the problem is that it's not on the PSTAR.

The flight instructor guy working for the academy would be legal if his employer gives permission for the flights (but I'm guessing that is doubtful).

[Beefitarian]

Is there questions about it in the cpl written?

[justwork]

I feel so much safer knowing a team of Avcanadians are policing Kijiji

[Colonel Sanders]

The flight instructor guy working for the academy would be legal

You can do sightseeing flights for hire with a CAR 406 FTU OC
but that's Day VFR, taking off and landing from the same airport.

To land with those pax at another airport is charter and would
require a CAR 703 OC.

I feel so much safer knowing a team of Avcanadians are policing Kijiji

meh, saves your tax dollars. Personally I like it when pilots
spot problems amongst themselves and address them, but
you may prefer to involve Enforcement in everything instead.

[CpnCrunch]

Is there questions about it in the cpl written?

Or the instructor rating? You'd think instructors would need to know the CARs inside out seeing as they're teaching it.

[Colonel Sanders]

If you look at the CPL study guide, TP2476E:

http://www.tc.gc.ca/eng/civilaviation/p ... 1-3427.htm

It certainly references CAR 70x but sure as
heck doesn't explain it very well, or help you
interpret it, which is why I wrote that note
(above).

[Beefitarian]

Most of the references are not very good, that's how Mike C sells so many of his books.

I doubt it was a student, licensed private pilot or an instructor that ran the ad. Most likely a CPL thinking it was ok because of it.

Though before I ever took any flight training a guy I knew had a buddy who took us up for a ride and pre arranged that we all chipped in. I don't recall if he had a CPL or PPL.

[Beefitarian]

http://www.pittspecials.com/articles/Compensation.htm

I have some questions.
Is your November 1st flight booked? And how much is it?

[GUMPS]

I don't agree with people pulling these charters. They need to be busted.
Why call TC when there is Avcanada Users