AME shortage?
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Re: AME shortage?
Deleted
Last edited by flatface on Fri May 30, 2014 11:26 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: AME shortage?
...enough saidJust the opinion of an angry old man
Have you checked the Job listings lately?Employers are NOT looking for experience
...nothing to do with maintenance and should have absolutely nothing to do with signing a maintenance release... not an AME's call at all.observing the weather (severe conditions), time of day (middle of the night), the crew's duty day is almost up (you can see they have had it and would rather just layover and rest) it is time to call it a day for all concerned because to release the aircraft means this crew (who is not at their peak performance) and the aircraft and the passengers will be much better off getting off the aircraft and returning the next day when everyone has had a good rest.
I guess in your 38 years you never made it to management huh?Lots of experience means the employee knows that almost all long serving managers have virtually NO experience actually doing the job they are managing (they climbed the ladder as fast as they could to get away from actually doing the job) and their decision making process is not based on best practice, safety, the well being of the employees, the labour code, the collective agreement, or for COMMON HUMAN DECENCY. Their decisions are solely based on MONEY and the fear of being terminated for not squeezing the last nickel out of each event.
...there's a lot more to aviation then just airlines
Re: AME shortage?
Neverblue , you should go back and read some some of your posts to see the tone of them. One of the things that frustrates people is the way they are spoken to. I know its easy to be abrasive on an internet forum and maybe thats the way you talk to people in real life but I doubt it. You assume that because it is not happening to you it is not happening. While your your perception may be different than someone else's it does not mean their perception is wrong. Your posts are condescending and self righteous in short annoying.
Have a nice day. This is not a personal attack, just an observation.
Have a nice day. This is not a personal attack, just an observation.
Re: AME shortage?
I would say Neverblue's posts are solely based on personal experience and are far from reality.
Re: AME shortage?
Whatever!!
That was a guy who for thirty-eight years took a paycheque, fed his family probably paid his mortgage and is able to retire after only 38 years in the industry...and then he comes on here and bashes the industry that has allowed him to now sit at home and do whatever he wants.
He says the industry sucks and he appears to be glad he's out of it yet here he is reading maintenance forums.
He attacks me as a manager saying that I probably know nothing and that most managers are only out for themselves etc...etc
...well to hell with that!
and that's my opinion Mr Hoptwoit
and why did he delete his post?
That was a guy who for thirty-eight years took a paycheque, fed his family probably paid his mortgage and is able to retire after only 38 years in the industry...and then he comes on here and bashes the industry that has allowed him to now sit at home and do whatever he wants.
He says the industry sucks and he appears to be glad he's out of it yet here he is reading maintenance forums.
He attacks me as a manager saying that I probably know nothing and that most managers are only out for themselves etc...etc
...well to hell with that!
sooooooo my personal experience are "far from reality"?....well then who's been paying my mortgage, property tax, grocery bill, car payment, dental, glasses, RRSP's, pension, vacation, sick days...?I would say Neverblue's posts are solely based on personal experience and are far from reality.
and that's my opinion Mr Hoptwoit
and why did he delete his post?
Re: AME shortage?
The "reality" IMO is, there is no shortage of AMEs. There are quite a few AMEs available who can hold a wrench and sign their names quite well but have done little in the way of actual maintenance and operators seem quite happy to compensate them accordingly. You can look at it like being able to read and write not knowing that your illiterate if you know what i mean.
There is a shortage of AMEs who actually know aircraft maintenance and how to maintain aircraft. These guys are disappearing at a alarming rate leaving the industry with the above.
Honestly, the only guys i have known to retire after 38yrs in this racket did so because of a disability and are by no means enjoying the fruits of their labour at present. Not to say that there are not any AMEs who have retired happily but i would be safe to say that they are not in the majority.
There is a shortage of AMEs who actually know aircraft maintenance and how to maintain aircraft. These guys are disappearing at a alarming rate leaving the industry with the above.
Honestly, the only guys i have known to retire after 38yrs in this racket did so because of a disability and are by no means enjoying the fruits of their labour at present. Not to say that there are not any AMEs who have retired happily but i would be safe to say that they are not in the majority.
Re: AME shortage?
Ok time for a lesson in perspective.
Aviation: is an industry is includes all the red tape from transport, The latest bright ideas from management (which if you have been in the work force long enough have already been tried and now are just given a fancy new name).
and the stress that goes along with having an intermittent snag in an engine that cannot be repeated by maintenance. You can't throw away the engine for a new one, but you don't want to kill anyone either and you have to get the airplane online. That is the industry.
The work: Doing something different almost every day. Power plant, electrical, flight controls and troubleshooting. Using you brain to figure out the intermittent power plant snag and keeping all those passengers and crew who use your aircraft safe. The pride of workmanship that comes when you are making repairs before they become snags (looking after the details fixing a sticky door before it's a stuck door).
The satisfaction of doing the job not just good enough but a job well done. Having a tight timeline for the next flight and pulling resources together to make proper repairs (not just band aid on top of band aid) and dispatching on time. Running into a flight crew that used to fly the aircraft you worked on but has since moved on tell you over a cup of coffee "I wish we had guys like you at Air xxx our planes are loaded with snags".
Your perceptive is so "industry" slanted it's pathetic. The way you write gives you away.
Took a pay check for 38 years. EARNED a paycheck. Classic us (management) vs them (hands on workers) mentality.
Here is an anecdotal story. One year around Christmas time due to vacation plans we lost. The CEO, the CFO, the QA the DOM and the chief pilot for 2 weeks. That's pretty much the entire management staff gone for two weeks and we never missed a flight. If we took that many people off the floor or the flight line do you think things would have gone so well?
What exactly do you manage ? Systems, just a pile of paper or people. Management needs to realize that the biggest asset you manage is people. It's time to get some some "people skills".
Oh and in case you didn't figure it out. Guys like flatface are here because the miss "The Work" not the Aviation Industry" That's why they are reading the" maintenance forum". Maybe you should start an "Industry Forum" where you can enlighten the future of "Aviation Industry".
In all honesty I doubt that you will understand this right away but I hope that some one will. It's not just the Aviation Industry" whose management skills are suffering it is an epidemic the workforce over. Management tends to forget about the people part of the job and instead of treating people with dignity and respect they use the same skills they developed in their limited time on the floor. They never learned finesse instead they hit it with a hammer until it fits.
Hoptwoit.
Aviation: is an industry is includes all the red tape from transport, The latest bright ideas from management (which if you have been in the work force long enough have already been tried and now are just given a fancy new name).
and the stress that goes along with having an intermittent snag in an engine that cannot be repeated by maintenance. You can't throw away the engine for a new one, but you don't want to kill anyone either and you have to get the airplane online. That is the industry.
The work: Doing something different almost every day. Power plant, electrical, flight controls and troubleshooting. Using you brain to figure out the intermittent power plant snag and keeping all those passengers and crew who use your aircraft safe. The pride of workmanship that comes when you are making repairs before they become snags (looking after the details fixing a sticky door before it's a stuck door).
The satisfaction of doing the job not just good enough but a job well done. Having a tight timeline for the next flight and pulling resources together to make proper repairs (not just band aid on top of band aid) and dispatching on time. Running into a flight crew that used to fly the aircraft you worked on but has since moved on tell you over a cup of coffee "I wish we had guys like you at Air xxx our planes are loaded with snags".
Your perceptive is so "industry" slanted it's pathetic. The way you write gives you away.
NeverBlue wrote:That was a guy who for thirty-eight years took a paycheque, fed his family probably paid his mortgage and is able to retire after only 38 years in the industry...and then he comes on here and bashes the industry that has allowed him to now sit at home and do whatever he wants.
Took a pay check for 38 years. EARNED a paycheck. Classic us (management) vs them (hands on workers) mentality.
"Allowed him to" Once again after 38 years he earned the right to sit at home or whatever he wants to do.NeverBlue wrote:.and then he comes on here and bashes the industry that has allowed him to now sit at home and do whatever he wants.
Because he spent 38 years arguing with people like you and now he doesn't have to.NeverBlue wrote:and why did he delete his post?
If the money in management was less than working on the floor I'm certain that you would still be on the floor.NeverBlue wrote:He attacks me as a manager saying that I probably know nothing and that most managers are only out for themselves etc...etc
Here is an anecdotal story. One year around Christmas time due to vacation plans we lost. The CEO, the CFO, the QA the DOM and the chief pilot for 2 weeks. That's pretty much the entire management staff gone for two weeks and we never missed a flight. If we took that many people off the floor or the flight line do you think things would have gone so well?
What exactly do you manage ? Systems, just a pile of paper or people. Management needs to realize that the biggest asset you manage is people. It's time to get some some "people skills".
Oh and in case you didn't figure it out. Guys like flatface are here because the miss "The Work" not the Aviation Industry" That's why they are reading the" maintenance forum". Maybe you should start an "Industry Forum" where you can enlighten the future of "Aviation Industry".
In all honesty I doubt that you will understand this right away but I hope that some one will. It's not just the Aviation Industry" whose management skills are suffering it is an epidemic the workforce over. Management tends to forget about the people part of the job and instead of treating people with dignity and respect they use the same skills they developed in their limited time on the floor. They never learned finesse instead they hit it with a hammer until it fits.
Hoptwoit.
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Pat Richard
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Re: AME shortage?
You are such an a#@hole.Ok time for a lesson in perspective.
I’ve worked in the trades for over 30 years…I know what earning a paycheque isEARNED a paycheck.
If you would have not only read but comprehended what I wrote you would have seen I was referring to what he did with the paycheque not how he got it…like “took it to the bank”…or “took it to his mommy to hold it for him cause he can’t be trusted with it”…
Yes “allowed him to”…as in if he were say, a bank clerk, it would probably take him the normal 40 – 45 years to retire. I know many many engineers that have retired before 60 because of what they’ve been able to do in this “industry”."Allowed him to" Once again after 38 years he earned the right to sit at home or whatever he wants to do.
Yes he spent 38 years arguing…which is probably why he is so bitter…but he also knows that he went somewhere he shouldn’t have and it shows by him deleting the post and sending me a personal message trying to explain it.NeverBlue wrote:
and why did he delete his post?
Because he spent 38 years arguing with people like you and now he doesn't have to.
You can try to skew my words here but I know who I am and what I stand for and the people I work with prove that to me every day.
I’m in aviation because I love it and money has never, ever been a driving force and you’re a jerk for even suggesting so…my record speaks for itself and I don’t have to prove anything here to you.If the money in management was less than working on the floor I'm certain that you would still be on the floor.
You see I have missed paycheques because there was no money to pay with, been laid off, been bumped out of a job by a union “Brother”, been screamed at by managers and supervisors who didn’t know what they were talking about, worked on days off without pay, gone without vacation for years, gone without a raise for years, worked the worst shifts, worked the worst jobs, worked in the worst places under the worst conditions, been away from my family for months at a time…
…but I’ve also seen the owner take out a personal loan to give me a paycheque, been hired back as soon as there was work to do and money to pay with, seen the owner take out a business loan to give me a proper shop …with heat, been consoled by a supervisor and welcomed back when the guy who bumped me decided he didn’t like the job, apologized to by my supervisor and manager and acknowledged for being patient and getting the job done, given days off with pay in lieu of working on time off, given paid vacation, acknowledged for working the tough shifts and tough jobs under the toughest conditions by being given more desirable ones, been given jobs that allow me to stay at home, given paid sick days, paid days to stay home and look after my family, had my RSP contributions matched, had my dental, glasses and life insurance paid for…
For those reasons I’ll never bite the hand that feeds me…ever
…well…your anecdotal story really only proves that you have no clue how business works from the top down.Your perceptive is so "industry" slanted it's pathetic.
I’ve worked with plenty of Owners, Presidents, CEO’s, CFO’s, QA Directors, DOM’s etc. and anyone with half a brain knows there is only one answer to your question… if everything went off without a hitch don’t you think that means that “everyone” had done their job?One year around Christmas time due to vacation plans we lost. The CEO, the CFO, the QA the DOM and the chief pilot for 2 weeks. That's pretty much the entire management staff gone for two weeks and we never missed a flight. If we took that many people off the floor or the flight line do you think things would have gone so well?
…no…no you don’t
your paycheque after two weeks came from a tree and wrote itselfRespect is earned and can never be taken…but it also must be given before it can be earned.
Re: AME shortage?
With that Neverblue, you have shown your colors. Better change your username again so you can start earning respect because you won't get any from me.
Have a nice day.
Have a nice day.
Re: AME shortage?
deleted
Last edited by flatface on Fri May 30, 2014 11:24 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Pat Richard
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Re: AME shortage?
I’m sorry Flatface that you’ve got caught up in all this but you both (hoptwoit and you) still don’t see that you first insulted me with your post and comments regarding managers…sorry but I’m going to respond to that. There are lots of good capable managers and good companies as well and just because you weren’t lucky enough to work for one doesn’t give you the right to blanket statement them all.
I can sympathize with the path you took as I know how hard it is to transfer from military aviation in Canada to civilian…it’s a whole different world. I know a lot of ex-military engineers who tried to make that jump, some successfully and some not, some even went back to the military after trying, and some quit altogether…
So I commend you on sticking it out but you are now retired as a result of you putting up with all the crap and if someone told you it was supposed to be easy then they lied…you should be happy you are where you are…and proud of it…you are living proof that it can be done!
I’m happy you’re writing a book and if it’s about 38 years of your experiences in the industry then I will probably buy it. But if it’s your opinion on the industry then you can keep it…I’ll make my own judgments thanks.
I’ve worked for flying clubs, manufacturers, airlines, operators and MRO’s as well…but I’ve also worked the construction trades, service industry, hospitality industry, railway industry, and I know that all those arguments regarding management and owners are no different than anywhere else, including the Military. When I’ve been unhappy I’ve moved on because I’ve always believed that I and I alone can control my happiness. Blaming it on others is pitiful.
In my opinion it’s all about how you deal with it and the attitude you deal with it with. Complaining all the way doesn’t get you much respect amongst your peers or your managers and usually doesn’t get you anywhere… except maybe laid off.
I’m a manager and I’ve work very hard to get to this point. I work with mostly good people who understand what it takes to make it work and we’re successful because of it. I deal with all kinds of issues every day that affect many people and I know that some of my decisions will make some happy and others very unhappy but that will never change no matter where I work.
My number one priority is that everyone is safe and number two is that the job is done right and everyone has a job to come to tomorrow and a paycheque to pick up on payday as a result…whether they're happy or not is mostly dependent on them and them alone.
If I didn’t know my trade and my job I most certainly wouldn’t be where I am. Until you’ve been at both ends of the spectrum your opinions with regard to the other are moot.
I can sympathize with the path you took as I know how hard it is to transfer from military aviation in Canada to civilian…it’s a whole different world. I know a lot of ex-military engineers who tried to make that jump, some successfully and some not, some even went back to the military after trying, and some quit altogether…
So I commend you on sticking it out but you are now retired as a result of you putting up with all the crap and if someone told you it was supposed to be easy then they lied…you should be happy you are where you are…and proud of it…you are living proof that it can be done!
I’m happy you’re writing a book and if it’s about 38 years of your experiences in the industry then I will probably buy it. But if it’s your opinion on the industry then you can keep it…I’ll make my own judgments thanks.
I’ve worked for flying clubs, manufacturers, airlines, operators and MRO’s as well…but I’ve also worked the construction trades, service industry, hospitality industry, railway industry, and I know that all those arguments regarding management and owners are no different than anywhere else, including the Military. When I’ve been unhappy I’ve moved on because I’ve always believed that I and I alone can control my happiness. Blaming it on others is pitiful.
In my opinion it’s all about how you deal with it and the attitude you deal with it with. Complaining all the way doesn’t get you much respect amongst your peers or your managers and usually doesn’t get you anywhere… except maybe laid off.
I’m a manager and I’ve work very hard to get to this point. I work with mostly good people who understand what it takes to make it work and we’re successful because of it. I deal with all kinds of issues every day that affect many people and I know that some of my decisions will make some happy and others very unhappy but that will never change no matter where I work.
My number one priority is that everyone is safe and number two is that the job is done right and everyone has a job to come to tomorrow and a paycheque to pick up on payday as a result…whether they're happy or not is mostly dependent on them and them alone.
If I didn’t know my trade and my job I most certainly wouldn’t be where I am. Until you’ve been at both ends of the spectrum your opinions with regard to the other are moot.
Last edited by NeverBlue on Mon Nov 05, 2012 3:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: AME shortage?
I would never expect to get any respect from you...I think you truly believe you can run an airline or business without managers.Better change your username again so you can start earning respect because you won't get any from me.
How can anyone argue with someone like that?
why would I change my username? Neverblue means "always happy"
like meRe: AME shortage?
...again with the plug...are you on his payroll?
You've made my point again though. What kind of a person writes a book damning the industry that he continues to own and operate a business in?
Irony or what...
Re: AME shortage?
I know of Poster FF from another forum and I may have even worked with him in the past, then again maybe I haven't but he has made many solid posts on a variety of topics.
Respect? There's a shortage!
It's too bad so many posts spiral into personnel attacks.
Good people are hard to find period.
Respect? There's a shortage!
It's too bad so many posts spiral into personnel attacks.
Good people are hard to find period.
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crazy_aviator
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Re: AME shortage?
C-170B 53 Would you have been based in Keene Ontario by the way ?
Re: AME shortage?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5oeur0dzvhw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG0A5lyc ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQfYkJbb ... ure=relmfu
...my plugs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yG0A5lyc ... ure=relmfu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQfYkJbb ... ure=relmfu
...my plugs
Re: AME shortage?
Based on the West Coast ; with respect to my last post; I find it's just too easy to slip into a spiral when there's polarity in opinions and I've been as guilty as anyone in the past. I know I have to work at being a bit more positive when On-Line and resist the notion that I'm (almost always) right
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Pat Richard
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Re: AME shortage?
show me any aviation maintenance ad that competes with this one, which is one of many out there, I might add.
Aww crap, not really a great comparison....no grave yard shift@30bucksanhour.Journeyman Technician(s)
Drayton Valley Ford
Journeyman technician(s) required
UP TO $10,000 SIGNING BONUS / RELOCATION ALLOWANCE
Our dealership, under new ownership has a rapidly growing service department and we need good people!
Want to make great hours!? Want to work in an atmosphere where you are supported by management and ownership? Want to get paid top dollar wage with benefits, pensions, with individual and team incentives? (Senior Ford Certified techs can start at $38.00 per hour, up to $45.00 per hour plus bonuses). Want to be treated with respect at your job!?
Drayton Valley Ford requires journeyman automotive technicians or fourth year apprentice techs ASAP. Ford specialties with electrical, transmission, and/or diesel experience is an asset, but general technicians will be provided a great opportunity to succeed. Relocation allowances to move to our booming young town are negotiable. Paid training is provided for all technicians. We support our techs with solid front end procedures, Service Advisors and Warranty clerks, and everything you need to succeed.
If you have a solid work ethic, good computer and organizational skills, and take pride in your work, make sure you forward your resume immediately in confidence;
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Fling Wing
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Re: AME shortage?
That's great, but not all of us do this for the money, there's guys like me who have a sense of adventure, like to travel ect. I'm quite happy getting paid to travel around the world working on helicopters, it sure doesn't pay the best, but for the amount of work that's required, and the experiences I've had, and the schedule I have, I'm pretty happy. I think I'll take the mind full of memories over the bank account full of money when I'm old.
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Pat Richard
- Rank 8
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- Location: all over
Re: AME shortage?
Fling Wing wrote:That's great, but not all of us do this for the money, there's guys like me who have a sense of adventure, like to travel ect. I'm quite happy getting paid to travel around the world working on helicopters, it sure doesn't pay the best, but for the amount of work that's required, and the experiences I've had, and the schedule I have, I'm pretty happy. I think I'll take the mind full of memories over the bank account full of money when I'm old.
I prefer the full bank account, so I can take vacations around the world, with the only work worry being swimming up to the bar.
Interesting comment you made about wages/helicopters, especially when there are few here who adamantly claim the opposite. These guys still think that if you make 100g ish in a balls out season that you are well paid. I talked to a welder who works in the patch who says 200G+ is the norm in the patch for fulltime welders, and that 400 a year is starting to be less uncommon. Crazy money for a trade, but its "supply and demand" in the purest form, unlike aviation.
Personally, I'd take 10 years of welders wages over 10 years of AME pesos and be incomparably better off financially.
But that's just me.
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Fling Wing
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Re: AME shortage?
I don't think welders do what they do because they love being out on a pipeline for 10-12 hrs doing very high concentration work all day because they love it, sure some might, but it's all about the money for them usually, and rightly so. I look at careers as being one of two things, sometimes it can be both. You can either have a job that's not about the money, all about how much you enjoy your job, or a job that's all about the money, but the work isn't as enjoyable. Since careers make up such a large portion of our limited time on earth, I've decided to choose something I enjoy doing, and see a little bit of this world while I'm at it, and I make enough money to go on a "vacation" on my time off if I so desire. Everyones different, there's 6 billion people in this world, we all have different priorities in life.
