Hi!

[bernk]

This is my first post on AvCanada. I figured since my dream is to someday fly a floatplane in BC, I'd introduce myself here.

Disclaimer: I may ramble a bit…

I've had the dream of flying planes for a long, long time, and I've finally made the decision to do something about it.

I'd like to share this dream with you guys, and get your thoughts. Either way, I need to know if this is something achievable: I want to learn how to fly, then I want to learn how to fly floats, and then, someday when I'm older, I want to own my own floatplane and a piece of remote, wild, property on some water in BC. On the way to achieving that, I would love to fly myself and my friends around BC and explore everything our beautiful province has to offer.

Some barriers that I see might be my age, I don't have a single minute of flight time under my belt and I'm 30. I also don't have money coming out of my ass — at all. Right now I'm living in Switzerland and working my nuts off as an interaction designer (nerd), to save up for flight training, which I plan to do in BC.

Because I've never flown in something as small as a C172, even as a passenger, my plan is to first take a fam flight (or Schnupperflüge as it's called here) to confirm my belief that this is what I want. Switzerland is very expensive for some things, flying being one of them. So my first question is this: should I shell out about $375 for an hour long fam flight in either a C172 or a BRAVO AS02, or instead save $60 and go for the same in an AT-3 http://www.at-3.com/? This will be a one-time thing. I won't burn anymore money on lessons or anything related while in Switzerland. This is only meant as something to reward myself for getting out of the debt I am currently in, and keep the dream alive! I'm thinking as a first time flight it won't matter what plane I'm in. Thoughts?

Next, my plan is to start either on an RPP or PPL. Either way, I want to take a couple months off work, and do it full-time, 5 days a week, a few hours a day. I think I would learn best this way…

Now, the bush part. If all goes well up to this point I would like to get a CPL and some sort of seasonal job to build time and gain experience. I'm really not interested in "moving up the aviation ladder" and one day flying corporate jets or airliners. Not my thing. I'm only after experience in the bush and on the coast. How realistic is this? Is it possible to get a job flying in the bush after attaining a CPL? Or would I have to invest thousands of my own dollars into flight-time on top of that?

From reading through the forum and doing some research elsewhere it seems that floatplanes are a difficult thing to get into because of insurance. Anyone care to elaborate on that? For the CPL/float part of my mission Air Hart Aviation in Kelowna has grabbed my attention.

Thanks for taking the time to read my story! I look forward to any support, information, and constructive criticism.

Cheers,
Bern

[Relic]

First off, you will need a ton of cash. Purchase the plane, maintenance, hanger, insurance etc. However, if you do purchase, do it right away and train on your own plane right at the beginning instead of giving money away to a flight school for renting their plane. And if your dream is to fly floats...do your entire license on floats. You will have to rent for spin and spiral training but I think thats about it. As for getting started in your career you can get a job with a CPL, especially if you do all your training on floats but it will most likely be in Northwestern Ontario or Northern Manitoba.

Good luck

Relic

[bernk]

Thanks for the feedback, Relic. Appreciate it.

It really seems like if I want to fly floatplanes then buying one is the only way. Unfortunately that's not a realistic option for me anytime soon. As far as I can tell you need a few hundred thousand.

[zero]

A few points first off: Not sure why you would have to own a seaplane in order to fly one...some people actually pay you to fly their aircraft. Also don't let age and a lack of funds deter you from your dreams, where there's a will there's a way.

I re-started my career in my early 30's on a wing and a prayer and within 5 years was flying floats for a large operator on the BC coast. I went into debt to do it and think my age and previous job experience was actually helpful along the way. Yeah, I spent a few years working in places I didn't want to be but the experience was priceless and it built character, as they say.

Do all your float training on the coast if that's where you want to work/fly eventually...there are some good schools in Victoria, Pitt Meadows and Fort Langley. Visit some of the working seaplane bases to see what it's all about, it's kinda cool just to watch...I still do it. If I'm working that day I'll even take you on a sched.

[bernk]

Thanks zero! Just what I needed to read. Some encouragement.

I've been looking at Air Hart Aviation which is not on the coast, but I would be able to do my PPL there from start to finish on floats, which as far as I understand is a massive advantage considering that's what I really want to fly.

This past summer I was showing my Swiss girlfriend what real wilderness looks like, and when we came back to Tofino from camping on a nearby island we kinda hung around the docks for a while and I watched the floatplanes. Then I decided to go talk to the operator and get at least a bit informed. He turned out to be very nice, but told me that they require 1000 hours on type. That kind of discouraged me, because I thought, how in the hell am I supposed to have 1000 hours on THAT specific type of aircraft (a DHC-2 of course) when I'm already 30 and haven't flown a minute.

Since then I've learned a lot, and in part by reading these forums. I've watched some ground school videos, practiced in a sim. Basically whatever I can do in my current situation that gets me closer even a millimeter.

When you say you re-started your career do you mean you completely changed careers and started flying instead of doing something totally different? Or did you fly when you were younger and re-started your flying career?

Thanks for your reply!

[182-SS]

Most of the flight schools that do seaplane ratings are good, I’ll confirm your choice of Air-Heart as a top notch school. I got my licence on wheels first then got the rating with Air-Heart, wish I would have just done the whole thing with them.

The insurance issue with new pilots is both a myth and truth. It depends on what type of insurance you want or need. Seeing as though you want to buy a plane, you’ll want to protect it from any incidents that may occur, ie. Hull insurance. New pilot….your not going to get it and if you do it will be very expensive. If you want to get into a floatplane that is a tail dragger (most of them )…..tougher yet, until you have been checked out on type and have a few hundred hours which you’ll need and want. Some insurance companies don’t care if its on floats, all they see is the tail wheel.

If you want your own plane and need hours, the best way is do your licence and rating totally on floats then get a job up north like has been mentioned, have someone pay you to build hours then the insurance isn’t an issue. Your not going to get a job on the coast, they get to pick their pilots so the requirements are very high.
There are tricycle gear aircraft on floats that you’ll have much better luck with the insurance companies if your low on hours, especially on the Liability insurance (the only one you really need to fly).

Don’t be discouraged about the cost buying a float plane, there are some great machines for tens of thousands less than a few years ago, the market is finally realising how overpriced some of the 35+ year old machines were.
You can get into a float plane for under 100k now. Your not going to get a 185 for that and certainly not a beaver but you can find some great machines,180’s 182’s, cubs, maule, check out barnstormers, controller, cs-ent, trade a plane to name a few web sites. Its fun to look no matter what and it will give you an idea what you can get.

If this is truly what you want to do then all there is left to do is do it. Make it happen,

[bernk]

Thanks 180! Although purchasing my own aircraft is the most distant part of my dream, it's nice to see that there are some out there than I can at least imagine being able to afford.

I think for now I have to focus on saving up to do my PPL at Air Hart. Then I'll decide what to do next.

Gotta do what's gotta get done!

[Relic]

If you have a dream about owning a float plane one day. Look at doing it right off the bat. You can find a nice cub on floats for around 45K. Or you can rent a float plane to do your training in at around $230 an hour (hobbs times) multiply by 200 hours and you've generously given a flight school $47K. Go the first way and you have a CPL and a nice little toy Now there will be fuel/insurance/maintenance on top of your purchase so in the short term it will be a bit more expensive but most of your money goes to something you own.

just my 2 cents

[zero]

My foray into a flying was a whole new career for me.

And, you will not need 1000hrs on type to fly the west coast...'nother myth busted. There definitely IS a shortage of experienced floaters.

[Rowdy]

And, you will not need 1000hrs on type to fly the west coast...'nother myth busted. There definitely IS a shortage of experienced floaters.

True, but we require 1000hrs float time and HA wont even look at you without 1500 PIC. So it is certainly not a starting point.

Like many before you, it's going to be a process thats only very rarely avoidable of going to ON, MB, QC etc and flying floats for a season or two if thats the route you want to take. There IS certainly a lack of qualified/experienced float drivers.

[bernk]

Relic, what is the cheapest 4-seater I might be able to find? I'm thinking it might be more realistic to get into one if I can get a couple of my friends pumped up on the idea and help out. I think it wouldn't be too hard After browsing some of the links mentioned above I was pretty surprised to see the prices of some. In the range of nice cars!

And, you will not need 1000hrs on type to fly the west coast...'nother myth busted. There definitely IS a shortage of experienced floaters.

I didn't mean on the West Coast in general, but it's certainly not a myth at the particular operator I talked to. I think it was Tofino Air. The guy in charge of hiring pilots told me they require 1000 hours on type, mostly because of insurance reasons. I don't think he'd have any reason to mislead me. He was friendly and didn't mind chatting with someone who had absolutely no idea what they were talking about.

I don't have any disillusions about walking into HA and getting a job. I'd be happy doing a season or two somewhere North. Just wonder how my girlfriend will feel about that... On that note, it seems like becoming a pilot is better suited to single life. I think we'll figure something out though, she loves nature and wilderness as much as I do.

What's the average number of hours that a new floatpilot can bank in a season up North? From what I've read it's painfully obvious that the pay for those jobs sucks. How is the pay for a pilot who has worked up to a job at an operation like HA?

I'm aware that if I did chose to fly floats as a career it would be a long time before I was earning what I am now. At the end of the day it's not about the money, but you have to be able to support yourself and a family if that's what you want.

One more, can anyone give me any idea where I could keep a floatplane close to Vancouver, and how much it might cost? What about insurance and maintenance? Just rough estimates. I did try to find this out myself but the insurance company I checked out has huge forms you have to fill out just to get a quote, which makes sense.

Thank you all for the time you're taking to encourage me and answer my questions. Appreciate it!

[Relic]

Most likely a Cessna 172 on floats. However they are not the best performing float plane and the useful load is pretty poor. (but i'm a cub lover ) If you have friends and buy shares in a plane then thats definitely a great way to go. Despite popular belief aircraft insurance is cheaper then insurance on a car. Especially in Vancouver. ($1400 fully insured at 100K) Keep in mind it will be more expensive while you have a PPL and during training. As for hanger space in Vancouver area you are looking around 500 a month to rent, or a parking spot around $1000 a year.

Northern Ontario can be a lot of fun and defiantly a great experience. Lots of work for your gf. Depending on the operator you get hired with you can get anywhere from 150 to 1000 hours. (1000 if its year round) Pay is usually poor when flying the smaller planes (185 or 206) but its all up hill after that. As many others are saying there is a demand for experienced float drivers.

Relic

[howard40]

A cessna 180 or a maule is about the only planes that are actually "4 seat" floatplanes, where you can use the seats,a 172 on floats is a bit narrow on margins.... a a lake amphib works too (but no baggage)

[shimmydampner]

I don't have any disillusions about walking into HA and getting a job. I'd be happy doing a season or two somewhere North.

You may find that you actually really enjoy it. I used to think flying on the coast would be great, but after watching friends who thought the same thing go there, only to return north because they were so painfully bored of doing sched runs, I'm glad I never bothered.

What's the average number of hours that a new floatpilot can bank in a season up North? From what I've read it's painfully obvious that the pay for those jobs sucks. How is the pay for a pilot who has worked up to a job at an operation like HA?

The number of hours in a season is highly variable. Anywhere from 200 to 600 is possible. Try getting on with a year round operator to keep the pay cheques coming and gain other valuable experience beyond just floats.
Starting out, pay generally reflects the experience you have...not as much as you might like. That's not to say that you are going to starve. Many seasonal employers provide housing. My first couple jobs did and I was able to eat well, keep the fridge stocked with beer and still save a good chunk of change.
As for HA pay? If the info on this site is accurate, it's no great shakes. There is certainly significantly more money to be made in particular regions of the north. Check out this thread for specifics: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=52800&hilit=Harbour+air

[LousyFisherman]

Despite popular belief aircraft insurance is cheaper then insurance on a car. Especially in Vancouver. ($1400 fully insured at 100K) Keep in mind it will be more expensive while you have a PPL and during training.

Until you have over 50 hours on floats, insurance is ridiculous, over 10k/year. This is after you have achieved your PPL.
I have no idea what insurance would be on a float plane that you are using for training.

LF

[Relic]

A cessna 180 or a maule is about the only planes that are actually "4 seat" floatplanes, where you can use the seats,a 172 on floats is a bit narrow on margins.... a a lake amphib works too (but no baggage)

Agreed that those would be much better planes but the cost to purchase and the operating cost would be way higher

[GUMPS]

Sorry bud, but if you want to fit more than one friend in the a/c and get off the lake it's going to cost you more for a bigger aircraft.. In my experience you're better off getting something you and one buddy can throw your little bit of gear in and head out.

[Expat]

Hi bernk,

I don't post here very often, but I'd love to try to help you...

!

Euphemism of the year:
Joined: Wed Jan 18, 2012 9:06 am
Posts: 1Location: CAH3
But nice post! Keep them coming.
ex

[zero]

Check yer PM's F4...I may be able to put some wind back in your sails...