TC Aviation Enforcements in COPA

[single_swine_herder]

Based on the limited a selective information presented so far, its likely 99% of this fellow's issue was flying without a medical, failure to produce the licence is way down the totem pole, although it makes for a more spectacular posting topic to pick the least important and make it appear to be the significant factor.

I wouldn't be surprised if the reason he didn't produce the licence booklet was because he knew he didn't have a medical, and started things off by either intentionally leaving it at home, or telling "a little white lie" by saying he didn't have it with him as the first mistake in getting caught in a bigger lie.

Wouldn't be the first time .... ever watch any of the TV shows like "Cops?" Seems a common behaviour pattern that quickly spins out of control of the person once another two or three questions are asked, and the plan falls apart.

[ScudRunner]

Take a photo of all the stuff you need and keep it in the phone?
I have photocopies of all of it on one sheet of paper..lic, gun lic, drivers lic, passport, pilots lic and radio lic, in case I lose it all.

If you have an Iphone download an app called CardStar, I have all my rewards cards on it.
https://itunes.apple.com/ca/app/cardsta ... 60311?mt=8

It has pretty much every major hotel chain, airmiles, etc you can even manually enter and create new ones.

[Beefitarian]

Colonel, you should carry your license book in that fake skid mark underwear wallet. Imagine whipping that out of your pants to produce your license during a ramp check.

Maybe I'm the only one that thinks that would be pretty hilarious.

[Cat Driver]

Remember:

When ramp checked and they ask for your documents you never allow them to physically hold them.

You only show the documents to them.

[Sasquash]

Cat, are you sure this is really good advice?

Every person who is the holder of a Canadian aviation document,..shall produce the Canadian aviation document, technical record or other document for inspection in accordance with the terms of a demand made by a peace officer, an immigration officer or the Minister.

Let me know how it works out when you do this with the cop!

[Cat Driver]

shall produce the Canadian aviation document,

Read the Act.

Produce is not surrender.

During a ramp check you are not required to co-operate in any way beyond producing the documents required by law.

If they make any demands beyond the producing of the document requirement you have the right to refuse to say or do anything, however I personally will ask them if they have a reason to believe I have been in violation of any law or regulation so I can advise my attorney of the situation I am in.

Best you research the pertinent laws and policies under which a TC inspector can act......you may find they are not as powerful as some of them think they are.

The Colonel and I have a bit of experience in how to deal with T.C.

[Masters Off]

Cat,

My only question is: why? Why cause an upset? is there a benefit to not letting the guy hold the paper and read it himself vs. you holding it for him to read it?

[photofly]

The Colonel and I have a bit of experience in how to deal with T.C

And remind us one more time how well that worked out for you both.

Read the Act.

Produce is not surrender.

Incidentally, the only online dictionary I could find lists inter alia this relevant meaning for "produce":

5. to provide, furnish, or supply; yield:

[CD]

Maybe all of these separate threads could be merged and made a sticky...

AvCanada: Ramp Checks - Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2004
AvCanada: Another ramp check question - Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2004
AvCanada: ramp checks illegal? - Posted: Wed Aug 24, 2005
AvCanada: What Am I Obligation to Show TC - Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008

[Rockie]

Rockie: go back and read the original posting in this
thread. You've got it backwards. It's TC that's taking
pilots "to the woodshed" for not carrying their booklets.

The pilot in your original post had no valid medical at all much less have it in his possession which means his license was invalid as well. What enforcement action - if any - do you think should be taken against someone who flies an aircraft without being licensed to do so?

Remember:

When ramp checked and they ask for your documents you never allow them to physically hold them.

You only show the documents to them.

Good advice if someone wants the kind of warm relationship you and Hedley have with the authorities. Bad advice otherwise.

[Hornblower]

Rockie, the pilot in question appears to have maybe had no medical, however that has nothing to do with the licence ... different documents; different requirements. If you want to know what constitutes a valid Pilot licence you need to refer to the rules on validity ... for example, a pilot licence is valid ... CAR 401.12.

And Cat is quite right TC can only ask for the production of the document for the purpose of inspection. They can seize it, only under circumstances where the document itself is evidence ... where " the Minister believes on reasonable grounds will afford evidence with respect to an offence" (8.7(1)(c) A.A.). This is highly unlikley since the nature of most offences is that they would be offences regardless of the facts surrounding a licence. The only possible exeption to that (as far as I can see) would be where someone has tried to alter or mutilate the licence itself; then it becomes evidence.

[Rockie]

Rockie, the pilot in question appears to have maybe had no medical, however that has nothing to do with the licence ... different documents; different requirements. If you want to know what constitutes a valid Pilot licence you need to refer to the rules on validity ... for example, a pilot licence is valid ... CAR 401.12.

And Cat is quite right TC can only ask for the production of the document for the purpose of inspection. They can seize it, only under circumstances where the document itself is evidence ... where " the Minister believes on reasonable grounds will afford evidence with respect to an offence" (8.7(1)(c) A.A.. This is highly unlikey since the nature of most offences is that they would be offences regardless of the facts surrounding a licence. The only possible exeption to that (as far as I can see) would be where someone has tried to alter or mutilate the licence itself; then it becomes evidence.

"404.03 (1) No person shall exercise or attempt to exercise the privileges of a permit, licence or rating unless the person holds a valid medical certificate of a category that is appropriate for that permit, licence or rating, as specified in section 404.10."

Saying the license is not valid without a medical is a dinosaur's holdover from the days the medical was called a "License Validation Certificate" which of course it isn't anymore. But the end result is the same. Your license is useless without the accompanying medical no matter how you want to split those hairs.

I'm also not suggesting TC can seize your license for no reason. I'm saying being a dickhead about showing it to them when they ask for it attracts the kind of scrutiny that is both undesirable and utterly predictable. Kind of like being a dickhead to a cop. It's your right to be foolish though if you want.

[Hornblower]

Agreed, I was just making the distinction.

[Cat Driver]

And remind us one more time how well that worked out for you both.

I can not answer for the Colonel Photofly, but for me it worked out quite well.

It took three and a half years to get a ruling that TCCA had been in violation of the law and they owe me $250,000.

And if they ever ramp check me in the future and demand something that I am not by law required to do one phone call to Ottawa from me should solve the problem.

So yeh, it worked out real well for me.

[YYZSaabGuy]

It took three and a half years to get a ruling that TCCA had been in violation of the law and they owe me $250,000

Cat, this is not the first time you've mentioned this $250,000 amount you're owed. I'm curious: if you were awarded
a judgement against TC by a court with the appropriate jurisdiction, why haven't you enforced it and collected
your money? And if you weren't awarded a judgement, then how is it you feel TC owes you anything?

[Cat Driver]

Cat, this is not the first time you've mentioned this $250,000 amount you're owed. I'm curious: if you were awarded
a judgement against TC by a court with the appropriate jurisdiction, why haven't you enforced it and collected
your money? And if you weren't awarded a judgement, then how is it you feel TC owes you anything?

It is quite simple YYZSaabGuy, I had agreed to accepting an internal investigation of my complaint against TCCA by meeting in person with the Director General Transport Canada in my home with other witnesses present.

He personally guaranteed me that if my complaints were found to be true I would be awarded an agreed upon amount of money which after some discussion was $250,000.

When the final facts were that I in fact had been denied due process by TCCA and we met again in person with a journalist this time as my witness the stonewalling on when I would be paid started.

The bottom line is to this day I have been paid zero and to continue to fight it through the court system is beyond my financial ability to pursue.

However I can without fear of legal retribution by TCCA state clearly that at their highest level Transport Canada has some moral degenerates protecting those within their system who break the very laws they are supposed to enforce.

Mind you I would be delighted if TCCA were to issue a writ to take me in front of a Federal judge to defend my allegations regarding the top management of TCCA and up to the office of the Director General.

. ..

AA38841

[YYZSaabGuy]

When the final facts were that I in fact had been denied due process by TCCA and we met again in person with a journalist this time as my witness the stonewalling on when I would be paid started.

., I obviously wasn't there and don't have any background.

However: for TCCA to agree to pay what was in effect a whistleblower fee (itself unusual),
there would have had to have been an understanding (implicit or otherwise) that your
allegations would result in either civil or criminal proceedings against the TC personnel
involved. If such proceedings never ensued, then it's not surprising you didn't collect on
the fee, because in Transport's eyes, the conditions weren't met and the money isn't owed.
If, on the other hand, formal proceedings resulted and people were fired/sued/jailed
as a result, then I'm surprised by the outcome, particularly if you had witnesses and
journalists involved.

So, the question is: were your allegations ever found to be factual?

[CD]

Rather than go over this old ground again, you could either take this to PMs or refresh the following thread (there are 14 pages of discussion there, after all):

AvCanada: Fear of reprisal from TC - Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2006

PS - ., you do recall that "your" DGCA retired a while ago and is now with the CBAA? Mind you, I'm not sure about the regional director general that you were dealing with and where he is now...

[Cat Driver]

So, the question is: were your allegations ever found to be factual?

I am truly surprised that you would insult me with that question.

Unless of course you think that I am stupid enough to make these statements on a world wide read internet forum if they were not true after the career I had in aviation.

In case I have misunderstood your comments and you are a legal expert, maybe you could take up my issues with TC and get my money for me?

I was not a " whistleblower " I had a legitimate complaint against TCCA for abuse of power...it was that simple.

[Cat Driver]

PS - ., you do recall that "your" DGCA retired a while ago and is now with the CBAA? Mind you, I'm not sure about the regional director general that you were dealing with and where he is now...

Good morning CD hows life with you these days, mine is just great.

Yes I followed the former DGCA's move from TCCA to the CBAA.

Typical of their type to land a position such as he moved to and in my opinion it tells me a whole lot about CBAA.

It was the office of the Director General whom I dealt with in my home, they initiated the process and clearly without any doubt it was the Director General who I was dealing with, I can prove beyond doubt the person who was in my house had full power of the office behind him.

As to where they are now I really don't care out side of avoiding them more than I would any parasite or criminal.

[YYZSaabGuy]

I am truly surprised that you would insult me with that question.

Unless of course you think that I am stupid enough to make these statements on a world wide read internet forum if they were not true after the career I had in aviation.

In case I have misunderstood your comments and you are a legal expert, maybe you could take up my issues with TC and get my money for me?

I was not a " whistleblower " I had a legitimate complaint against TCCA for abuse of power...it was that simple.

., I asked a civil question: no offense intended, and there's no need to personalize it.

The thread referenced by CD in his post above contains great background, and the answers to my questions
are found in your post of April 15, 2006, of which I was previously unaware. Thanks to CD for the reference.

Obviously this issue has been around longer, and is more complicated, than I realized. I never claimed to be a
"legal expert"; that said, I do find it surprising that the RDG would give the undertaking you attribute to him.
I don't on the other hand find it in the least surprising that no payment has been made.

Again, sorry to raise your hackles: not my intent.

[Cat Driver]

Thanks YYZSaabGuy, as you can imagine the subject sometimes gets me feeling frustrated.

So to end this again, I would do exactly the same again as I want to live my life standing up, not on my knees for parasites.