Interesting Article

[Shiny Side Up]

I figure one gets a good grasp of the GPS once started the IFR flying. RNAV or GPS seems more attractive in the soup than the paper map reading skills.

Well there's no reason you can't learn about it during your PPL, but there's a time and place. GPSs these days are hardly rocket science, and incredibly user friendly compared to the previous models. You do, however, need a base level of navigation knowledge to really put one to use, a level most new students don't have, at least until they've completed just some basic ground school work on nav planning. Until they get a good handle on the stick and rudder, they also won't have the coordination to momentarily divert their attention to the device to make use of it. They have none of their attention to spare, much like a teenager texting while driving, or well anyone texting while driving.

[Colonel Sanders]

"How to fly an airplane " course to flight instructors when I finish my Cub.

That's an excellent idea. I might however suggest
that you zip up the name a bit - "Advanced Stick
And Rudder Course" sounds much zoomier.

The biggest problem is how can I charge these unfortunate people

meh. They'll be glad to give you their money, which
you can legally accept, because they already have a
pilot's licence, so no FTU OC is required. You as a
CPL/ATPL holder can give unlimited type famil dual
to the holder of any pilot licence, and that time may
be counted by them towards a higher licence (as well
it should!)

Not just flight instructors will want to take your course -
PPLs, new CPLs, etc will also want to get dual on something
interesting.

[Cat Driver]

meh. They'll be glad to give you their money, which
you can legally accept, because they already have a
pilot's licence, so no FTU OC is required. You as a
CPL/ATPL holder can give unlimited type famil dual
to the holder of any pilot licence, and that time may
be counted by them towards a higher licence (as well
it should!)

Yes Colonel I completely understand the legal part, in fact I do not even need a pilots license to be a " consultant, critic. "

It is the moral bit I was referring to, these poor unfortunates have already paid big money to learn to fly but were not taught properly because the system is systemically corrupted and accepted as is by the regulator.

The best example of how poor the training industry has become is just reading how many pilots think running down the runway on one wheel is black magic.

It is basic aeroplane handling skills....period.

[Colonel Sanders]

Don't let it bother you. A couple hours with
you doing rolls around a point, the falling leaf,
one wheel landings, and real short field landings
on grass over an obstacle, will be the best money
they ever spent in aviation.

One of my favorite things to do with pilots is to
simply land them on a 1000 foot long stretch of
grass, parallel to the main paved runway here. No
obstruction, even.

Such a simple thing, and yet so unusual these days!

Another simple, yet tremendously exotic maneuver
these days: do circuits close into the runway, at 500
feet. Marvellously efficient. Fly a tight, descending
power-off U on base & final, sideslipping all the way.

[Shiny Side Up]

Don't let it bother you.

Indeed. The thing to remember Cat is that primarily you will be preaching to the converted so to speak. As for the unfortunates as you call them, keep in mind that as bad as the system is, they are still free willed adults for the most part capable of making their own judgements and a good majority are willing subscribers to the system. No one forced them into the system. Hopefully if you start it you will get many acolytes, but I would suspect that few that you get will be as far gone as you may fear, they will already have worked to break the chains of the system before they find you.

[MikeGolfEcho]

Don't let it bother you.

Indeed. The thing to remember Cat is that primarily you will be preaching to the converted so to speak. As for the unfortunates as you call them, keep in mind that as bad as the system is, they are still free willed adults for the most part capable of making their own judgements and a good majority are willing subscribers to the system. No one forced them into the system. Hopefully if you start it you will get many acolytes, but I would suspect that few that you get will be as far gone as you may fear, they will already have worked to break the chains of the system before they find you.

All this talk of 'the system' is making me a little sad. I want to be a commercial pilot, I actually want to get out of bed everyday and fly an aeroplane. I feel this way because it's fun right? That's why I ski, ride my bike... I don't want to 'work' for a living, I want to get paid to have fun.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not naive enough to believe any industry is a bed of roses, but the actual plane driving can be fun right? I've enjoyed almost every second of my time in the cockpits of the small planes I've flown, and until recently I've not really pictured myself in 'the system'.

I'd like to be able to do some one-wheeled landings/touch-and-goes as discribed because it sounds like fun! I've always found things easier to teach and learn (I've done some teaching and coaching in my previous life) if they're fun. Maybe that's what's missing from flying schools today, incompetence passed from instructor to student: driven by people who aren't enjoying themselves?

Ok, I'll stop rambling now

[Colonel Sanders]

Some pilots still know how to have fun. Some
of them have extraordinary stick & rudder skills,
like Kyle Franklin:





and Matt Younkin, in his elderly Beech 18:

[akoch]

OK, you got me going. So I went practicing these one-wheel landings tonight for good one hour. Can't say I can do it well. I certainly can land on one wheel, but then rolling for 1000 feet on it is impossible. When I land I stall the airplane before the touch-down, so I have very little energy left to continue rolling on one side. Unless I come in faster, or add power after the touch-down. But that's cheating. I don't know what kind of Jedi skills you need to have to manage it on a low-wing airplane for 1000 feet, I'd love to see that.

And one more thing - it is a whole lot easier to land and stay on the left wheel. The right side just would not do it. Precession? Empty right seat? I don't know...

[old_man]

Cat,

You flew both worlds. In your opinion is this a fixed wing problem only or does it affect the helo world as well? If memory serves me correctly it seems that helo instructors are all high time guys. Thoughts? I know that there is not much of a shiny metal syndrome in the helo industry. I wonder if that has anything to do with it......

[Cat Driver]

From my time in aviation and observing how the industry operated there was about as much in common between fixed wing and rotory wing as there is in common between driving a truck and operating a bull dozer.......very little.

Helicopter instructors were high time experienced people and got paid accordingly.

And their end product was superior to what the fixed wing industry turned out.....generally speaking of course.

Personally I believe it is because flying a rotary wing machine is far less forgiving of sloppy flying than fixed wing is.

Just imagine how much better flight training would be if the training was done by the most experienced people ratner than the least experienced.

The answer of course is to be found in the regulator who endorse medicrocity as acceptable in flight training.

[MikeGolfEcho]

From my time in aviation and observing how the industry operated there was about as much in common between fixed wing and rotory wing as there is in common between driving a truck and operating a bull dozer.......very little.

Helicopter instructors were high time experienced people and got paid accordingly.

And their end product was superior to what the fixed wing industry turned out.....generally speaking of course.

Personally I believe it is because flying a rotary wing machine is far less forgiving of sloppy flying than fixed wing is.

Just imagine how much better flight training would be if the training was done by the most experienced people ratner than the least experienced.

The answer of course is to be found in the regulator who endorse medicrocity as acceptable in flight training.

So if I may pick your brains on this same (related) theme, how did this difference in instruction evolve? Was it driven through necessity from some war time episode? I'm talking about the difference between helicopter instruction and fixed wing. The aircrafts' forgiving nature can't be the only reason why heli instructors are high-time well-paid folks and fixed wing instructors aren't?

[Cat Driver]

A lot of it may be due to the higer cost of operating a more complex flying machine which will only attract those motivated enough to spend the money learning and thus work harder on learning.

Fixed wing on the other hand is much less expensive and thus avaliable to more people who tend not to try so hard to exceed.......and they are taught by instructors who are usually not far past students with little if no actual commercial flying behind them working for miminum pay or sub minimum pay....not much to motivate excellence in that arena is there.

[Shiny Side Up]

So if I may pick your brains on this same (related) theme, how did this difference in instruction evolve? Was it driven through necessity from some war time episode? I'm talking about the difference between helicopter instruction and fixed wing. The aircrafts' forgiving nature can't be the only reason why heli instructors are high-time well-paid folks and fixed wing instructors aren't?

There is also a lot less of a push to create large ammounts of helicopter pilots. After all, when was the last time you seen some article on how thousands of helicopter pilots were going to be in demand? Being a helicopter instructor, unlike a fixed wing instructor, is a position of respect and desireable amongst experienced helicopter pilots as well. Desireable in that it pays well and, rarely amongst helicopter work, is reasonably stationary. Supply and demand accounts for most of it though.

[trey kule]

The sad news is the heli world is going the way of the fixed wing....heli pilot with 800 hours instructing time who cannot fly long line...and try and operate as this did in flight school, as they have never operated outside that envirorment....

Because their machines can be a bit less forgiving to those that lack the skills, it maybe will result in more training accidents and reverse itself...
A bit of trivia...a few years ago we had a training accident due to simulating a stuck pedal...The insurance company told me that every year they paid out an average of 4 claims for this type of accident, but had never paid out a claim for one actually happening outside training....makes you wonder about what is important.....and it makes me wonder a bit about all these great ideas trying different methods that, at least in someone's mind, turns out a better pilot..Stick to the basics (nice pun...non?)

[Colonel Sanders]

I certainly can land on one wheel, but then rolling for 1000 feet on it is impossible

Aileron over, add some power. You can drive down
the runway indefinitely like that. After counting a few
runway lights, add full power, accelerate on the one
wheel, then pop it up a foot into ground effect and
straighten out and accelerate, just like you would for
a soft field takeoff. One wheel touch and goes.

When I land I stall the airplane before the touch-down

Tiny post script: you don't stall the airplane before
touchdown. No one does. If they actually did, they
would land very hard indeed. Without an AOA indicator
you really don't know what's going on. Note that the
stall warning indicator coming on does NOT mean that
even one of the wings is stalled - merely that you are
within 5 to 7 mph of the stall.

[tkdowell]

Just imagine how much better flight training would be if the training was done by the most experienced people ratner than the least experienced.

The answer of course is to be found in the regulator who endorse medicrocity as acceptable in flight training.

Agreed on both counts. Let me ask you this - what would you have the regulator do? Up the minimum experience pre-requisite? Higher standards on flight tests? More audits?

[Shiny Side Up]

Wow, this discussion is even getting so depressing that I think I should quit this endeavor.

[Beefitarian]

Wow, this discussion is even getting so depressing that I think I should quit this endeavor.

The internet? Probably a good idea.

[MikeGolfEcho]

Wow, this discussion is even getting so depressing that I think I should quit this endeavor.

Sorry to bring you doooooowwwwnn

[Cat Driver]

Agreed on both counts. Let me ask you this - what would you have the regulator do? Up the minimum experience pre-requisite?

Absolutely, flight instructors should come from the top of the industry, not the bottom.

Higher standards on flight tests?

Yes, especially on airplane handling skills.

More audits?

No, in fact we should go to the system the USA has where an O.C. is not needed.

Quality would be checked by DFTE's that are impartial and have no connection with any one school.

[Beefitarian]

[It is the moral bit I was referring to, these poor unfortunates have already paid big money to learn to fly but were not taught properly because the system is systemically corrupted and accepted as is by the regulator.

The best example of how poor the training industry has become is just reading how many pilots think running down the runway on one wheel is black magic.

It is basic aeroplane handling skills....period.

How can they get better instruction if there is no one capable but also willing to provide it? Would it not be moral to help them learn the basic skills correctly?

[Colonel Sanders]

I have been saying that for quite some time that
you could improve flight training by requiring 1000TT
for an instructor rating.

It would ensure that people who were instructing
had some reasonable idea about how to fly, and
it would get rid of the time builders, so the instructor
wage would go up, so people could afford to instruct.

Never going to happen, though, which betrays the
real purpose of flight instruction - to allow low-time
pilots to build time before they move on to flying a
twin. While I acknowledge the reality of this, it
delivers a pretty sh1tty product, at a pretty sh1tty
price.

[photofly]

Aileron over, add some power. You can drive down
the runway indefinitely like that.

You are side-loading the u/c though, unless you're doing it into a crosswind.

[Colonel Sanders]

Do the trig - it's not much. I might recommend you
pump your tires up to nominal. I do love scuffing the
sidewalls!

[Shiny Side Up]

I have been saying that for quite some time that
you could improve flight training by requiring 1000TT
for an instructor rating.

I've argued against this for a long time since I don't think it would be the solution to the problem. I know good low time instructors, and I know some really bad high time instructors - most of which I'll add also have some sort of industry experience. I'm just talking in my hat here though because no one likes to admit that bad pilots have already gotten into the system. Anyone who has lots of time must be good right? Right.

Higher standards on flight tests?

Yes, especially on airplane handling skills.

This is the critical point I think. When it comes down to it I feel the test standards are set really low. This would also be the simplest area to improve things with results. Something simple like bringing back the old 0-5 grading system would improve things by leaps. This coupled with:

Quality would be checked by DFTE's that are impartial and have no connection with any one school.

Should be done. There should also be way more DFTEs than there are out there too, but that's my opinon. I also think that there should be a way to bar those who don't perform up to standard from the system too. I heard recently that someone upgraded to their Class 2 instructor rating after 3 fails on the flight test (passed on the fourth try). Tests mean nothing if you can just keep taking runs at them, eventually a million monkeys with a million flight tests should be able to get through them, that doesn't mean that should be acceptable.