Sunwing to hire foreigners using the LMO method

[Wheels]

You want my views about Transat giving out work to Canjet instead of letting Air Transat do the flying with its own 737s? It sucks and I hope they stop that when CJs contract expires in May 2014 and that they do not renew that contract with them. Our MEC negotiated a salary scale for the 737 after the contract with CJ had already been signed. They should prevail themselves of that opening we gave them, instead of renewing with CJ. I hope that they finally give us the tools we need to become competitive on the Southern routes.

Do you have a copy of the Transat salary scale that was negotiated for the 737 that you can share or is it classified?

[Gilles Hudicourt]

You want my views about Transat giving out work to Canjet instead of letting Air Transat do the flying with its own 737s? It sucks and I hope they stop that when CJs contract expires in May 2014 and that they do not renew that contract with them. Our MEC negotiated a salary scale for the 737 after the contract with CJ had already been signed. They should prevail themselves of that opening we gave them, instead of renewing with CJ. I hope that they finally give us the tools we need to become competitive on the Southern routes.

Do you have a copy of the Transat salary scale that was negotiated for the 737 that you can share or is it classified?

I don't know if its classified or not. I am on vacation right now. Let's see if someone else replies

[Dick]

Capt. Hudicourt,
We don't see eye to eye, but from one pilot to another, enjoy your vacation. It's what this is all about. The time we spend working for our employers is to pay for our time off.
Cheers.

[60N30W]

You want my views about Transat giving out work to Canjet instead of letting Air Transat do the flying with its own 737s? It sucks and I hope they stop that when CJs contract expires in May 2014 and that they do not renew that contract with them. Our MEC negotiated a salary scale for the 737 after the contract with CJ had already been signed. They should prevail themselves of that opening we gave them, instead of renewing with CJ. I hope that they finally give us the tools we need to become competitive on the Southern routes.

Do you have a copy of the Transat salary scale that was negotiated for the 737 that you can share or is it classified?

It is in our current contract, if you are an ALPA pilot you should have no trouble seeing the contract via ALPA website, I think all contracts are there, if not your MEC would have access to it. If you are SUNPAC pretty sure your leadership would have it. I am somewhat hesitant at publishing it on the net. Feel free to PM me with your name and info and then maybe we can talk. Don't think the majority of my collegues would like to see the info passed to someone unknown.

Would you post your contract details?
Regards

M.Jackson

[Scuba_Steve]

Hard to say if its postsble or not. You can find most pay scales online on sites like airlinepilotpay.com likely a question for the MEC I started looking for it in my Contract booklet and got side tracked reading recall rights

Bon vacance Gilles!

[RogerCheckCopy]

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/airl ... ansat.html

[JTF01]

Gilles -

I would take the recent spate of personal attacks against you on this thread and several others as an indirect compliment.

I think you are having success at moving the wheels of government bureaucracy, making them aware of how the work visa program is being abused by several companies in our industry. I would also suspect your efforts, plus that of ALPA and other industry groups, has raised eyebrows in the right places, mostly within Sunwing's HQ, but also elsewhere. Hopefully the day will come in the not-too-distant future where a company can not design a business plan around circumventing Canadian labour law.

That Fasken (likely a mid-to-senior level Sunwing flight ops official) has devoted so much of his time the last week or two to come here and attack you says your name and campaign are having an effect on his company's plan to bring in imported labour. Although entertaining to a degree, it is almost pointless to spar with him. He has convinced himself the way his company does things in legal and nothing will change his mind until one day Colin Hunter is going to stick his head in Fasken's office and tell him to open the pilot hiring door for Canadians and to look into booking sim time for a bunch of new hires a few months down the road.

Morningwood (presumably a senior Sunwing pilot) does seem to have a reasonably side to him, although he somehow has convinced himself that what Sunwing is does legally correct.

Again Gilles - thanks for all your efforts on behalf of Canadian pilots.

jtf

[60N30W]

JTF

Are you saying that maybe Fasken is getting paid to post here and defend Sunwing? It would appear that way to me....

Regards,

M.Jackson

[JTF01]

JTF

Are you saying that maybe Fasken is getting paid to post here and defend Sunwing? It would appear that way to me....

Regards,

M.Jackson

Fasken is a mid-to-upper level flight operations management employee at Sunwing. Fasken derives a six figure income because of this, and as such has a lot to lose should anything affect Sunwing's business model (which Fasken believes this European pilot stuff will - I would tell Fasken not to worry, to get his company to play by the rules and they'll be alright on their own merits).

Fasken is easy to identify because of how he has swallowed the company arguments for imported pilot labour hook, line, and sinker. This is because Fasken sees getting his managerial job at Sunwing as his "big break" in life. He is well-known as a suck-up who wants to climb the managerial totem pole, but also is starting to see the vulnerable position that Sunwing could be in, if Canadian labour regulations were enforced properly. As such, Fasken's posts the last two weeks are a microcosm of the frustration felt inside Sunwing's hq, that the wheels of justice are slowly turning, that good will prevail, that Sunwing is going to have to rethink their whole business strategy, and that one of the possible outcomes is stranding several thousand people down south this winter along with a lot of egg on his face because of this flawed strategy of using Euro pilots that the government may soon end. Instead of punching a hole in a wall, Fasken has taken it upon himself to try to tilt the game board back to the previous status quo - which only reflects on how pathetic a strategy Sunwing has, if they have to rely on anonymous bullying on an aviation forum.



jtf

[60N30W]

JTF

If you ever end up out of work I am sure you will have a good shot at getting hired on at "Criminal Minds", your profiling abilities are remarkable.

Regards,

MJ

[OPEC6-Heavy]

I guess you can speculate on Fasken all day, but the fact is it's only speculation (but it sounds like your on the right track). Anyways, I think this whole discussion and the work of SUNPAC (SWG pilots Union) other pilot groups and that of Gilles (although I disagree with him at times) is really starting to move the philosophy of pilot staffing and the risks associated with reliance of external resources. As a result my prediction is that we will see a big change in the course of 2013 with respect to Canadian staffing levels and building up of Canadian assets. This is going to play a huge role in building and Strengthening Sunwing's position in the Travel market, no doubt. I think it was a great wake-up call for the decision makers at SWG and because of this our future is much more secure from external threats and reliance of Foreign companies not associated with the TUI group. We have already seen 3 of our previous European partners (XL, Viking and Eurocypriot) go into Bankruptcy over the last 5 years. And I think because of this discussion and pressure we will leave our selves less exposed too these kinds of risks. So thanks to everyone's pressure and work on this topic. Not just for Canadian pilots but for those Pilots currently working at Sunwing.

[JTF01]

JTF

If you ever end up out of work I am sure you will have a good shot at getting hired on at "Criminal Minds", your profiling abilities are remarkable.

Regards,

MJ

Give me a Sunwing management flow chart and I will point out exactly who Fasken is.

Also note we haven't heard a peep out of our friend Mr. Fasken in the last 4-5 days. This most likely reflects that deep down, he is extremely insecure about his flight ops managerial position at Sunwing. He likely has been told to shut up in the online forums by a VP or higher level boss at Sunwing. Having ended up at Sunwing because his career took the wrong path and he didn't get on at WJ, AC, or TS, Fasken also is aware he has shot off his big mouth a bit too much and is concerned about his identity being revealed, as that would compromise his ability to make a lateral management pilot move to one of the afore-mentioned places (nothing against folks who are off the beaten path - in that regard Fasken has my ultimate respect as he is making lemonaid out of lemons).

Fasken's thinking on the whole Euro pilot issue has evolved in the last month or two, despite the hard line stance he throws up on AvCanada. He knows that worst case scenario, everything he has worked to accomplish in life could fall apart because his company's way of saving a few bucks on pilot expenses. His posts the last 2+ weeks should be viewed within that context; a desperate man who could lose everything and is howling at the moon to try to fix things.

jtf

[60N30W]

JTF

Hotch and Rossi would be very impressed!

MJ

[morningwood]

I guess you can speculate on Fasken all day, but the fact is it's only speculation (but it sounds like your on the right track). Anyways, I think this whole discussion and the work of SUNPAC (SWG pilots Union) other pilot groups and that of Gilles (although I disagree with him at times) is really starting to move the philosophy of pilot staffing and the risks associated with reliance of external resources. As a result my prediction is that we will see a big change in the course of 2013 with respect to Canadian staffing levels and building up of Canadian assets. This is going to play a huge role in building and Strengthening Sunwing's position in the Travel market, no doubt. I think it was a great wake-up call for the decision makers at SWG and because of this our future is much more secure from external threats and reliance of Foreign companies not associated with the TUI group. We have already seen 3 of our previous European partners (XL, Viking and Eurocypriot) go into Bankruptcy over the last 5 years. And I think because of this discussion and pressure we will leave our selves less exposed too these kinds of risks. So thanks to everyone's pressure and work on this topic. Not just for Canadian pilots but for those Pilots currently working at Sunwing.

Agreed, although I think that this has been in the works for sometime, and is not a sudden change in business philosophy.
The use of temporary foreign workers was part of a long term business plan during recent expansion, with the long term goal of strengthening the core business and increasing market share.
Less reliance on European partners with the purchase of US Vacation Express is evidence of that.

And yes, I do think that Sunwings hiring of foreign workers is 100% legal. It was the Canadian government who issued the work permits.
Although just because it may be legal doesn't mean that I agree with it, and doesn't make it right.

[Sulako]

Sure is a nice evening, and it would be a real shame to spoil it by disregarding forum rules, especially those involving "no personal attacks". I get that this is an emotional issue, but I'd still really appreciate it if we could all play nice. Some Christmas vacations have already been given this evening, but Santa says that if additional posters are stressed out to the point they can't follow forum rules then he has some vacations for them too



Ho Ho Ho!

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Some may recall that last year I had predicted that Sunwing was going to bring its foreign pilots mostly through the LMO method with HRSDC because CIC was going to refuse it the number of reciprocity work permits it was going to ask for. Well it turns out I was right.

They first attempted reciprocity, were only partially approved, and them went the LMO method.

I made an Access to Information request to HRSDC last october to ask them if Sunwing had made an LMO application. It came back negative. The only application they had received was from Canjet for 32 foreign pilots.

When I had sent my Access to Information request, Sunwing had not applied yet.

They actually made two applications:

The first one on Oct 22 2012 where they asked for 60 work permits, which was granted, and second one on Novembre 16 2012, for another 59 pilots, which was also granted.

In both applications, they state that they already employed 96 Temporary Foreign Workers, which I assume is the number that CIC granted under the reciprocal scheme.

That would make a total of 215 foreign pilots, and that does not count the 50 or so who are flying the 4 wet-leases, which would bring the total number of foreign pilots flying for Sunwing at 265.

In a recent interview, Mr Hunter stated he employed 156 full time Canadian pilots and 20 seasonal Canadian pilots.

We also should count the 25 or so foreign pilots who flew the 2 B-767s last summer, for a grand total of about 290 foreign pilots.

Note that in both applications, Sunwing stated that the positions that these pilots are going to occupy are not Unionized.

Sounds like a lie doesn't it ? It's not. Remember that separate crewing company that Sunwing created to hire the 20 Seasonal pilots who are not part of the Sunwing Union ? Well all Sunwing has to tell HRSDC is that the foreign pilots were added to the rosters of that separate crewing company, which is not unionized, and not top the main body of the 156 Sunwing pilots, who belong to a Union under CAW.
Plus, those 20 pilots served as a justification for telling HRSDC that Sunwing did hire locals. They hire 20 seasonal locals as a sacrifice to allow the hiring of almost 300 foreigners.

I'll leave the comments to the readers.

[corytrevor]

Any connection to this?

http://www.pprune.org/terms-endearment/ ... icers.html

[oh yeah baby]

Why cant we do that...


Résumés of workers who applied for jobs at a B.C. coal project show there were qualified Canadian applicants for positions that went to foreign employees, says a recently filed court document.

People who applied for the jobs included workers with extensive mining experience, the document says. It was filed January 31 by lawyers for two B.C. unions that are fighting plans by Vancouver-based HD Mining to hire 201 temporary foreign workers for its Murray River Coal project near Tumbler Ridge.

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PDF: Unions' submissions in HD Mining hiring dispute
"The resumes that are now disclosed show that there were a large number of qualified Canadian applications for the positions for which HD Mining was advertising and for which it was granted LMOs [Labour Market Opinions]." the document states. "Most of these were designated as ‘non-related’, despite resumes that indicated that the qualifications required by HRSDC were met, and were not even granted an interview or given any further consideration."

The court filing is part of a case that began last November when two labour groups filed a court challenge to the process that cleared the way for HD Mining to hire the temporary foreign workers for the project.

Sixteen of those workers arrived last fall and 60 more had been expected to land in December. But those additional workers did not arrive and the company recently announced the 16 workers who had come to Tumbler Ridge would be returning to China as a result of the costs and uncertainty caused by the litigation.

The company has maintained it needed to hire foreign workers because it was unable to find experienced Canadian workers. HD Mining's proposed mine would be an underground operation using a longwall mining method not currently used in Canada, although it is widely used in the United States.

Skills in other types of mining do not necessarily translate into skills required for an underground longwall mining operation, HD Mining spokeswoman Jody Shimkus said Sunday in an e-mail.

HD Mining says the foreign workers were needed for bulk sampling, a test phase to determine if a deposit can be profitably mined.

"If these experienced miners from China are not allowed to do the work for bulk sampling then this will likely result in there being no work for Canadians on the many above-ground jobs that will be available for this project," she said.

The unions – B.C. locals of the International Union of Operating Engineers and the Constructions and Specialised Workers' Union – have applied for a judicial review of the process that allowed HD Mining to hire foreign workers.

The court document says HD Mining received 230 résumés from Canadian applicants and hired 12 Canadians.

The résumés themselves have not been released.

Much of the court case to date has focused on document disclosure, with the unions arguing they need to see the documents and background material that the company filed as part of its LMO applications.

Before they can hire foreign workers, companies have to obtain an LMO. As part of that process, would-be employers have to show what efforts they made to hire Canadians and that the wages they intend to pay foreign workers are in line with prevailing wage rates for Canadian workers doing the same type of jobs.

HD Mining fought in court against releasing the résumés but agreed to provide them after the court ordered federal Human Resources Minister Diane Finley to review the efforts she had made to get the company to disclose documents requested in the case.

In November, Ms. Finley said she had concerns about the process that approved foreign workers for the B.C. project and said the government would review the temporary foreign worker program.

There were more than 300,000 temporary foreign workers in Canada at the end of 2011, compared to about 200,000 at the end of 2007, according to figures from Citizenship and Immigration Canada.

Academics and labour groups have voiced concerns about the increase of workers coming to Canada through the program over the past decade, citing the potential for downward pressure on wages as well as employee welfare concerns.

HD Mining International is based in Vancouver and backed by Chinese interests.