Foreign Pilots: expect this in the near future

[Gilles Hudicourt]

Since we were unable to block or limit in any form or manner the use of foreign pilots by Sunwing and Canjet, we can expect Air Transat to have to adapt to a situation it cannot change. The Transat AT contract with Canjet expires in May 2014. What will happen then ?

Maybe Air Transat,after reducing its fleet of wide-bodies to bare-bones, maybe 5, will lease another 15 Airbus 330s on short term from foreign airlines for the "seasonal" summer season and hire foreign contract pilots to fly them. They will put ads in Europe such as this one:


Airbus 330 - Captains and First Officers Canada Summer 2014

Recruiter: AAA Aviation Associates GmbH Posted January 2014
Ref: Canada Captains and First Officers
Contact: Mil Milson
Location: Canada
Sector Flight Crew - Captains and First Officer, Flight Crew - Senior First Officer
Contract: Type Contract Hours Full Time Salary TBN
Apply now

Further information
More A-330 Pilots wanted! Canada, this next summer!

On behalf of our established client, AAA Aviation is looking for Airbus 330 Captains and First Officers for a contract in Canada during Summer 2014, from April 2014 till Septembre 2014.

Please note that this is not a commuting contract, therefore applicants must be able to spend the 6 months entirely in Canada, although accommodation and car will be provided.

Non negotiable requirements for interested applicants to meet: -

Minimum 4000 hours total time
At least 2000 hours on the A-330 for the captains
At least 200+ hours on the A-330 for the first officers
All applicants must hold a valid JAA ATPL, IR, Medical, current Type Rating for the A330.
All MUST have a validity for the duration of the contract period.-
Must hold or be able to acquire a US crew visa -
Maximum age 60 years.
We will accept Captains willing to take a First Officer position for the experience of flying in Canada, as we have many that do!
Please apply via email ONLY by forwarding a current CV, with a full breakdown of hours and experience, including the date of your last flight on the A330, to: mil@aaa-aviation.aero. Due to the high level of applicants, Only Candidates meeting the requirements mentioned above, will receive a reply.


For the winter, they will also need to adapt to remain competitive. Air Transat will operate a small fleet of, say, 6 B-737-800s year-round and for the 2014-2015 winter season will wet-lease an extra 10 B-737-800 from, say, Jet Airways.


And we might see this :


Decision No. 44-A-2012
April 1, 2014
APPLICATION by Air Transat AT, on behalf of itself and Jet Airways, pursuant to section 60 of the Canada Transportation Act, S.C., 1996, c. 10, as amended, and section 8.2 of the Air Transportation Regulations, SOR/88-58, as amended.
File No.: M41235-82-3
Air Transat AT. (Air Transat), on behalf of itself and Jet Airways, has applied to the Canadian Transportation Agency (Agency) for an approval to permit Air Transat to provide its scheduled international service between Canada and Cuba, Mexico and the Dominican Republic using aircraft and flight crew provided by Jet Airways from Dec 15 2014 to May 15 2015.

Air Transat is licensed to operate a scheduled international service in accordance with the Agreement between the Government of Canada and the Governments of Mexico, the Cuba and the Dominican Republic on Air Transport.

The Agency has considered the application and the material in support and is satisfied that it meets the remaining requirements of section 8.2 of the ATR.

Accordingly, the Agency, pursuant to paragraph 60(1)(b) of the CTA and section 8.2 of the ATR, approves the use by Air Transat of aircraft and flight crew provided by Jet Airways, and the provision by Jet Airways of such aircraft and flight crew to Air Transat, to permit Air Transat to provide its scheduled international service on licensed routes between Canada and Cuba, Mexico and the Dominican Republic, using aircraft and flight crew provided by Jet Airways, from Decembre 15 2014 to to May 15, 2015.

This approval is subject to the following conditions:

Air Transat shall continue to hold the valid licence authority.
Commercial control of the flights shall be maintained by Air Transat. Jet Airways shall maintain operational control of the flights and shall receive payment based on the rental of aircraft and crew and not on the basis of the volume of traffic carried or other revenue-sharing formula.
Air Transat and Jet Airways shall continue to comply with the insurance requirements set out in subsections 8.2(4), 8.2(5) and 8.2(6) of the ATR.
Air Transat shall continue to comply with the public disclosure requirements set out in section 8.5 of the ATR.
Air Transat and Jet Airways shall advise the Agency in advance of any changes to the information provided in support of the application.

Member(s)

Joe Blow
Dark Zader

[proper]

Dear Christ I hope not.
Ok then when are we all getting together on Parliament hill? Seriously if we got a few thousand of us it would bring the public into the picture.

[midwingcrisis]

The Teepee on Victoria Island may come up for lease this Saturday. Dry, damp or with fish broth. Good luck!

[OPEC6-Heavy]

Gilles,

I really don't think you have to worry about Transat doing that.

[Gilles Hudicourt]

And of course Air Transat will be able to apply for hundreds of work permits for Foreign pilots under the reciprocity scheme, for in 25 years of history, it has done hundred of wet-leases overseas and we all know, as Sunwing has demonstrated, that CIC accepts Canadian pilots who go overseas on wet-leases, as fulfilling the requirement for sending pilots to "work" overseas. Based on that, Air Transat has hundreds of work permits "in the bank". There was the Air France wet leases to Algeria, the Egypt contracts, the Hajj for 5 years, the XL contracts, the White House contracts, the Star contracts........

Then when that is no longer enough, Air Transat will just apply for LMOs with HRSDC. You know how much it cots to train a Canadian 330 pilot ? Just for 6 months ? It's not worth it. It will be a seasonal summer job. Will will tell HRSDC that there is a pilot shortage in Canada because all the ex Air Transat A-330 pilots, those that will be laid off, will be on contracts in China. So they will import already type-rated Europeans, whose wide-bodied A-330s are in low demand in the summer. In Europe, the summer belongs to the single aisle aircraft. The European charter operator don't know what to do with their A-330s, so they'll lease them to Air Transat and in a separate contract, they'll also lease Air Transat the crews to go with them. Crews, that will collect their pay in Europe and not pay a red-cent in taxes or into Canada's social programs. Not to be confused with a wet-lease. The aircraft and crews will be sourced in the same place but in distinct contracts.
It's already been done and been accepted.

The writing is on the wall. And some people will ask themselves how it is we let such a situation deteriorate to such an extent while we sat on our hands.

[GRK]

Gilles,
Where is your ALPA (you are still represented correct?) MEC on this? Should you be posting all this doom and gloom without risk of being censured by your union? If it's not ALPA's official stance, you may not like what they have to say about an opinion of a member being made public...
On the subject of foreign pilots, I know how you feel. I'm sorry to see the way it's heading in Canada...guys like me who left the country years ago will never be able to come home to anything worth working for. Good luck.

[trey kule]

I dont know if the writing is on the wall, but it certainly is a very nice, well written, scenario.
It is just to bad it is little shy on facts, other than the author's perceptions of what will happen, maybe,, sorta, kinda...
I suppose it will rally the troups once again...We must act quickly before we come to our senses...Do not confuse us with facts..Fear mongering is much better.

I admire your detrmination to fight for the jobs of your fellow company pilots. But throwing mud at a tank is not the way succeed.

If you are truely worried about what your company might do, instead of coming on here and trying to stir everyone up, why do you not sit down with management and offer them a cost effective solution to the problem... let us know how well that works out for you.

The good thing about this is the foreign pilots are not working for starvation wages like Canadian pilots are willing to do, so they are not bringing down the pay level..It is all those Canadian pilots going to work for the new startups willing to work for KD and wiener wages that is causing the problems in salary levels. If you are gazing at your crystal ball, look at what the inevitable consequences of that will be when the parent companies of all these start ups become uncompetative.

As training cost amortization, with regard to seasonal vs pemanent employment is the real issue here, why not suggest that Canadian pilots pay for their own ratings..(Not the taxpayers.). Not the company.
The company can compensate them based on a typical amortization if they are seasonal, and when they are laid off they have experience and qualifications...They can use that rating to go overseas and work like the foreign pilots have to do when they come here.
With no excessive short term training cost amortization I am sure companies would jump at this.
And from what I have experienced with the new career streamers is there would be no shortage of applications... Company costs keep competitive. Pilots get upgrade training, some experience, and an endorsement...It is win win.
Or maybe the company, in the spirit of nationalism, and the current pilots group displaying their solidarity , would take a roll back in wages to compensate for the additional training costs for seasonal employment.. That would work too. Our fellow Canadians would be hired as temporary seasonal workers and the company would remain competitive..And the current pilot group could give themselves a well deserved pat on the back for getting Canadians hired...

In all seriousness, until you face up to the issue of training costs vs. seasonal employment, nothing much is going to change.

[AsheetMaDraws]

ALPA?
Take a look at the latest Air Line Pilot magazine published by ALPA, Jan. 2013
It specifically names Sunwing as a source of it's troubles, however, it fails to mention
by name, Canjet, with whom they represent. Funny how that works.
Again, what's this really about? The problem or the competition?

[florch]

I dont know if the writing is on the wall, but it certainly is a very nice, well written, scenario.
It is just to bad it is little shy on facts, other than the author's perceptions of what will happen, maybe,, sorta, kinda...
I suppose it will rally the troups once again...We must act quickly before we come to our senses...Do not confuse us with facts..Fear mongering is much better.

I admire your detrmination to fight for the jobs of your fellow company pilots. But throwing mud at a tank is not the way succeed.

If you are truely worried about what your company might do, instead of coming on here and trying to stir everyone up, why do you not sit down with management and offer them a cost effective solution to the problem... let us know how well that works out for you.

The good thing about this is the foreign pilots are not working for starvation wages like Canadian pilots are willing to do, so they are not bringing down the pay level..It is all those Canadian pilots going to work for the new startups willing to work for KD and wiener wages that is causing the problems in salary levels. If you are gazing at your crystal ball, look at what the inevitable consequences of that will be when the parent companies of all these start ups become uncompetative.

As training cost amortization, with regard to seasonal vs pemanent employment is the real issue here, why not suggest that Canadian pilots pay for their own ratings..(Not the taxpayers.). Not the company.
The company can compensate them based on a typical amortization if they are seasonal, and when they are laid off they have experience and qualifications...They can use that rating to go overseas and work like the foreign pilots have to do when they come here.
With no excessive short term training cost amortization I am sure companies would jump at this.
And from what I have experienced with the new career streamers is there would be no shortage of applications... Company costs keep competitive. Pilots get upgrade training, some experience, and an endorsement...It is win win.
Or maybe the company, in the spirit of nationalism, and the current pilots group displaying their solidarity , would take a roll back in wages to compensate for the additional training costs for seasonal employment.. That would work too. Our fellow Canadians would be hired as temporary seasonal workers and the company would remain competitive..And the current pilot group could give themselves a well deserved pat on the back for getting Canadians hired...

In all seriousness, until you face up to the issue of training costs vs. seasonal employment, nothing much is going to change.

Why are you so worried that Gilles is stirring the pot, exposing the truth and being a thorn in the side of Airline managements who are doing this with the tacit approval of the government? If what he's doing is ineffective, then it hurts no one. If it is effective, then we will see change for the better for all pilots, not just AT.

By the way, how do you think the WAWCON of Sunwing pilots compares to the foreign crews brought in? I think you'd be surprised if you actually knew what you were talking about. Cheap_foreign_labour. Maybe an intermediate step would be for the foreign guys to have the same salary and working conditions as Canadians as a MINIMUM.

[OceanGal]

Deleted.

[trey kule]

8 laid off Air Transat pilots were offered fulltime positions. Only 5 accepted

Those three, if they did not accept on principal, are what I consider excellent examples of what to do right...I wish them all the best in finding employment. To the other five, because you will no doubt be vilified I also wish you well.. I am sure the decision was difficult to make.

Why are you so worried that Gilles is stirring the pot, exposing the truth and being a thorn in the side of Airline managements who are doing this with the tacit approval of the government

You presume to much in making the claim that I am worried.. Now let me ask the questions..
You also presume he is exposing the truth...What do you base that presumption upon?
A picture painted by someone who it seems to me , focusses more on his competition than on the issue claimed?
Someone who presents a self made up scenario to stir people up..Who seems to have a bit of amnesia when it comes to his own company and what they are doing? Who justifies them doing the same thing because they are not doing it on the same scale..does not matter how much money you steal from the bank...It still is a bank robbery. If Sunwing, as they have been described by different posters, is fraudulent, maipulative, end running...well so is Canjet and AT..And the justification that they are not as bad is pure hockum..The fact that they are only mentioned basically in passing should raise some red flags with thinking people.

I have never denied that a problem, in the long term may exist if this practice was expanded to other than temporary seasonal pilots.....got that..Temporary ?.....seasonal?.... that has sort of got lost in the cries for action. Of course now, the fairy tale in the OP on this thread creates the impression that it will become permanent...No facts folks . Read it carefully. All just made up. That is not being a thorn in the side exposing the truth..It is appealing to the base emotions of those who cannot think.

There are two issues..First,,,,the claim needs balance or it becomes one of total acceptance of whatever is posted as truth...And when I originally posted and was vilified for suggesting some reason and balance I realized that this was not the case..Even now, questioning why I am so worried about him exposing the truth..Real deep and balanced thinking went into that.

Forgetting all that for a minute lets be practical here...Mr. H stirred up the mob..Letters to this person and that.. Slap em in the face.. Tell the Senators they dont no nuttin'. Petition the Prime minister.
What exactly was the result of all that ????
It was nothing more than throwing mud at the wall and hoping some of it would stick. (IMO)
I predicted at the time that to those who could think a bit beyond their emotions would see the whole thing as very self serving and the real aim as eliminating competition, not making things better for Canadian pilots... The mob signatures, letters etc. would be seen for what they were..Unthinking people willing to put their names on paper because pilot messiah told them they were being screwed over and promissed to lead them from the desert if only they would unite..

If , and I mean if, this becomes a long term issue of foreign pilots starting to be hired on a permanent basis then the issue should be addressed. Properly...Not through this media ..
But then again, this part of the campaign seemed to me to be just part of the effort to take on SunWing as a competitor..It is really to bad that all you joining the parade cannot stand back and really look at all the facts here.

I feel bad for the AT pilots that got laid off. But Mr. H's efforts, if they had been succedssful would have only resulted in Sunwing's pilots (and others) getting laid off. Getting a few hundred Canadian pilots laid off to stop some foreign SEASONAL pilots coming in makes no sense to me..And as little was mentioned about CanJet at the time, or glossed over because they were not doing it on the same scale, the sense I have is it was all about the competition.

Snake oil salesman and cult leaders dont want people to think..Just accept the story All I am really suggesting is for people who are concerned to look at all the facts.. Not just the ones presented by one or two very biased posters , before they act. Little bits are leaking through, and though they are dismissed or rationalized, they are there..Ask themselves what is being accomplished ( or what is the real objective) here rather than just mindlessly raising the flag and marching on. All I am suggesting is look at all the fact as objectively as possible before you act, not just one posters presentation.
The bottom line issue here is that some companies , at this point, only need temporary seasonal pilots, and the training costs do not justify hiring and training new pilots when there are cheaper alternatives available...That is, in my opinion, the issue that needs addressing, and it can not be done in a public forum. Despite the Canadain entitlement psyche, efforts directed to force companies to spend that extra money are going to fall on deaf ears..Alternante solutions must be provided if the practice is to change...
Has Mr. H ever mentioned speaking with his company management to attempt some sort of solution, or asking the govt people to help? From what I have read it is all about simply trying to block Sunwing, and now that CanJet has come into the light, Canjet from this practice. Might be wise to include some other folk like WJ into the mix...
He has appealed to pilots who do not seem to understand the economics and use terms like shady, bending, even fraud and scumbag...Those are not the terms of people that are rationally looking at the problem.

The tactics were good..The strategy not so much.

[mbav8r]

Trey, you are a very frustrating person and I'm not sure if you don't work for Sunwing yourself.
You have not clearly looked at the facts yourself, that is very clear.
Fact, ALPA Canada has been fighting this fight for 6 years.
Fact, if Sunwing didn't triple their fleet with their use of foreign pilots, Canadians would still go on vacation, it would be on other airlines who employ mostly Canadian pilots
Fact, what your advocating is a LOSS of good Canadian jobs in favour of lower paying jobs at a different airline and a large contingent of foreign pilots.
Fact, it is not temporary if it goes on for years, it's PERMANENT
Fact, Canjet has been mentioned numerous times, as has Westjet on the same topic
Fact, AT is not guilty of the offence, yet. I say yet as Gilles very cleverly posted, if they can't beat em the only alternative will be, join em. That's great for the industry, just fricken great!
Fact ALPA has stated there will be changes for next season, my only hope is, next year there won't be a need for Gilles on this problem, and it is, you know, a problem!
Fact, every time you post on this, you piss me off and insult the intelligence of everyone opposed to this plague on the Canadian Airline industry. You think because Gilles rallies the troops, we don't have the ability to make up our own minds on this, just a bunch of lemmings.
Fact, all the regs and legislation that Gilles posts, is unedited and clearly not being followed
Fact, if there was a true 1:1 ratio and only on an annual basis, there would be MORE Canadian jobs, not less.

[trey kule]

Mba......

First of all, to be quite clear , I do not work for Sunwings or have any affilitation with them..I am not so unknown here and there are many that know who I work for...and where I work.

Secondly it was not my intention to insult you or your intelligence..In fact , it is a spin off benefit I never even considered

I am one of those evil foreign pilots.. Except I am Canadain and taking the job away from some poor domestic sod in another country. I dont count in the facts you posted on recipricocity, because the whole issue has been carefully defined.. short term, company by company, and more specifically, focused on one company..They are somehow worse because they have more temporary foreign pilots working for them..Takes a rare form of logic to rationalize that.

Now your " permanent" fact. As far I know , the pilots being hired are seasonal temporary..They are not being hired on a permanent basis.. Again, carefully defined by the advocates. I assume, I hope correctly, that you are inferring because it is on a continuos annual basis it is de facto permanent.. Possibly, but I would not claim it as a fact until the foreign pilots become permanent employees of a company, or they are hiring the same ones year after year.

Now this claim I find most interesting....

Fact, if Sunwing didn't triple their fleet with their use of foreign pilots, Canadians would still go on vacation, it would be on other airlines who employ mostly Canadian pilots

Now which company do you suppose would step up to the plate to fill the gap..Perhaps the one that our resident advocate works for? And exactly, how, in making that claim are you certain that they would simply not adopt the same business model once they had eliminated the competition?
Maybe you are privy to AT's board discussions and have heard them undertake not to copy the present structure if they can just get rid of the competition. I am interested in how you came to that conclusion..

It is what it is.. companies are going to try and find the most cost effective business solutions available to them..And calling them frauds, scum bags, saying they are manipulating the regulations are not facts.

In a previous post I suggest that in my opinion the key issue is really that it is more cost effective to hire a temporary, qualified and experienced pilot than to train one and lay them off in six months.
And until that issue is addressed nothing is going to change, no matter how much Canadian pilots wish it to.. I gently challanged Mr H. to talk to his company management about a solution.

The sense I have, Mb, is that some people only want people to post here who are in total agreement with them.. I have no issue with your disagreeing with me, and I take no offence by it. I even take the time to give your posts consideration.. At the risk of offending you further, you might give some of the points I make some consideration instead of coming out with both barrels blazing..

And, last but not least.. There may be a problem. And I think there might be a solution as well. But a public forum is not the place to present it. Nor is the letter "riting, petition signing, name calling a way to go about it. And any "facts" should include all companies practicing this...(.note ALPA conveniently omitting a certain company) ....This is more about fighting the competition than fairness in hiring. At least that is my opinion until you post a fact convincing me that if Sunwings would disappear, AT would not immediately adopt the same business model...

[mbav8r]

Treykule,
Yes, absolutely because it's on a continuous annual basis is why I consider it permanent. I find it odd logic that unless it was the same foreign pilots, you would not consider that a permanent situation. As long as they are not Canadian it does not matter to me where they come from. If they were hired permanently, they would have to be residents of Canada, legally entitled to work here, kind of defeats the purpose.
I'm sure you remember the 6 57s Jazz(Canadian) pilots were flying, we had already taken many steps towards ETOPS and it would have been year round employment for more Canadians, the contract was for upto 11 57s, but the market was flooded and Thomas Cook had to go with a cheaper alternative. So yes I can say Sunwings fleet tripling had an affect on that, was it the only reason, who could say.
I agree 100% with you on one thing for sure, Canjet is just as guilty and should all the efforts have any effect, it will affect all who partake. I can also say, I haven't been to any board meetings lately, but I can surmise they might be looking closely at the business model and if the goverment doesn't put a stop to it for next season, as they have indicated they would, there is no doubt in my mind, AT will follow suit.

In a previous post I suggest that in my opinion the key issue is really that it is more cost effective to hire a temporary, qualified and experienced pilot than to train one and lay them off in six months.

This is a fact and truely is the main fact of the whole issue, the question is whether or not the are bending or breaking regs and legislation in doing so. I have looked at it closely and ALPA lawyers have looked at it and Gilles has painstakingly posted many, many times the exact rules being manipulated, yet you still think what they are doing is all on the up and up. Just because they are getting away with it, doesn't make it right.
For me, this is not about the competition, my company is not in that market segment anymore. This is about whats right and fair to all and if it is deemed fair to all next season, than I fear my career will be adversely affected a great deal. If next season this practice is allowed to continue, you can bet the farm on the fact, all carriers in the Sun segment will adopt this new world business model, and that is unacceptable to me.
I am also staunchly opposed to the temporary foreign minors in B.C., if there are able bodied Canadians willing to do the work, then there should be no foreign workers, period. Do you think that if a Canadian company bought a mine in China, they would allow 200 Canadians over there, under the guise, there are no Chinese that could be trained to do the same job?
I will ask you again, have you watched the senate meeting where ALPA talks about this issue? Here's the link;
http://hocca.wmod.llnwd.net/a4502/e2/20 ... 7_1080.wmv
I would be very interested to hear your solution as I don't see one, at this point all my hopes are riding on what ALPA is doing, afterall, I'm no lawyer and have very shallow pockets, you know Canadian pilot and all that means.

[florch]

Mbav8r +1, 100%

Trey thinks pilots individually or collectively haven't tried to talk to their companies, or that companies consulted pilots before they went ahead with outlandish changes that pilots never in 1000 years would have believed would ever have been approved, that there is an open door policy that allows this type of conversation, that opposition is allowed.

People have seen the slippery slope coming, God bless those with the guts to stand up. And to heck with you if you think that in a country where free speech remains, that an individual should use it and attempt to lobby the government not just to affect change, but to get the government to enforce the laws that are already on the GD books!

You are right about only one thing; the focus needs to include all companies using foreign pilots in this manner, not just Sunwing.

You are on the periphery of the industry, and yet you demand stakeholders sit on their hands because big business has all of our best interests at heart, and aren't really bent at all on the destruction of the profession as we know it. The affects are real - try negotiating a contract while foreigners are working beside you as ready built scabs with no interest in our country long term.

You talk a lot for someone not affected by this. I feel sorry for you that you have nothing better to do.

[trey kule]

Trey thinks pilots individually or collectively haven't tried to talk to their companies

I do?

and yet you demand stakeholders sit on their hands because big business has all of our best interests at heart, and aren't really bent at all on the destruction of the profession as we know it. The affects are real - try negotiating a contract while foreigners are working beside you as ready built scabs with no interest in our country long term

I do? I do not recall making any such demands..Please refresh my memory by posting the quote in context.
I think big business has all our best interests at heart? I think I said just the opposite of that.They do not give a rats petuti about pilots. Pilots are a commodity
Nice of you to call your fellow cockpit members...ready built scabs..real classy.
Thank you for your concern, but no need to feel sorry for me.

Now go out and play somewhere, the grown ups are talking.

Mb.
I see from your comment that I did not explain myself as well as I should have.. What I meant was that if a company is hiring the same pilots over and over as "temps" they are not really temps.
And , in my opinion that does amount to abuse of the system. I do differentiate that from using different temps each season. Perhaps it is splitting hairs.
On the other hand , the airline business is extremely capital intensive and growth by using temporary measures (aircraft, maintainance, and crews) is a cost effective way to proceed.. I expect that over the period of , say 10 years for arguments sake, a company will evolve to owning their own equipment and having their own pilots...Canadians.. I am willing to allow them the opportunity.
The other thing is if you look at a bit bigger , less company specific picture, that is how many Canadian pilots are working overseas compared to how many foreigners working in Canada, I expect you would see Canadian pilots are doing quite well. And that is the thing the govt looks at..They also look at the foreign pilot training done here (military) and the effects on companies as a whole, not just the pilots..To put it simply, their take on the issue is a bit broader.

Is the job market for pilots changing? I think so,and that does not make me a negative basher of Canadian pilots.. It is simply an observation.
My comments regarding the new LCCs is that they are hiring pilots for terribly low wages, and the lmessage will not be lost on the flag carriers for to long.

The approach here should be a little less on me me me, and a little more focused on the whole industry and the effect of foreign pilots. A solidified group of me me me's are still me me me, if you understand my meaning. What has to be shown is how this will effect the whole industry, not just the pilots. No one has mentioned the obvious evolution of foreign AMEs. coming here on contract. That will be next I think.

I wont get into the effects unions have had on this whole proces as I am sure people would start trying to hunt me down.

But I have to go now and make a living for a few days..Best of luck to all in the struggle.

[mbav8r]

Trey,
I can't argue the economics of the practice, from a business perspective it makes perfect sense, however it is NOT a net gain for pilots in Canada, in fact I believe the losses are quantifiable. Just under 80 pilots for the Jazz program had to be absorbed back into the CPA roster, putting all hiring on hold for about a year, 60 from Transat currently on furlough combined is roughly the amount of foreign pilots at Sunwing. Even if, as you say down the road they start to hire and have their own equipement, this is still a recycling of jobs to a lower bidder and altough 300.00 for a week at some resort will likely get more bums in seats, I can't see this as a good thing long term for the industry. Afterall, look now at what the walmartization of the scheduled service has done, everyone expects to fly from Toronto to Miami for 99.00, there is nowhere else to cut cost, except for the wages of employees. Long term, what effect will a degradtion of middle class wages have on the economy as a whole?
I'm what some might consider a hyper consumer, during the height of the recession, I had a second garage built to house my toys, this in turn helps drive the economy. With the current direction of this industry, I have decided and already started to pull back on discretionary spending, which is not good for the economy because I'm quite sure I'm not the only one.
If all those countries get the shortage sorted out, including the one you work in, you will be sent home, we are doing what we can for you to have something worth coming home to, I would think any and all Canadian pilots, here and abroad should see this fight as a GOOD thing and again I applaud Gilles for his efforts regardless of what his motives might be, but I do believe he sees the big picture and it was simply the loss of jobs at his shop that spurred him into action.
Happy flying

[YVR Dude]

ALPA?
Take a look at the latest Air Line Pilot magazine published by ALPA, Jan. 2013
It specifically names Sunwing as a source of it's troubles, however, it fails to mention
by name, Canjet, with whom they represent. Funny how that works.
Again, what's this really about? The problem or the competition?

And yet, when Sunwing asked ALPA about the union..they declined to support the Sunwing Pilot group...go figure! Guess the fight was too big for them to handle...

[flatface]

Deleted